Quantize in MC5 - Staff View

Author
dlong241950
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 28
  • Joined: 2012/06/03 13:06:28
  • Status: offline
2012/06/10 13:20:01 (permalink)

Quantize in MC5 - Staff View

Quantizing notes in MC5:
I did a forum search before posting this, and found there were some issues with this feature. That thread dealt with MC3 and older products. I am using MC5 in staff view exclusively.
 
The problem is that MC5 has note value presets only going down to a 32nd note. I have music that I'm trying to input that needs 32nd triples, 64th notes and 64th triples. MC5 has 32nd notes and the [3] button which is grayed out, telling me that 32nd triples is not available.
 
Searching on Roland/CW technical support site, I found a nicely worded document http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013137 that explains quantization. There is even a great table with values so you don't need a calculator.
 
It doesn't specifically give examples of quantize, but I found three different places in MC5 that the note's duration can be altered.
  1. Use the [Select] tool in the editor to select a group of notes. Click [Process] - [Quantize]. The dialog that comes up allows for a direct entry for the notes' duration. (I use the default 720 clicks per quarter note, so a 64th triple note has the value of [40], e.g.
  2. There is a little box next to the Note buttons that contains the duration value. It can be entered there.
  3. Right-click on any note and the dialog pops up with options which include Duration.
The problem is that these methods don't seem to work for any values less than a 32nd note. The duration doesn't change and the staff view doesn't change in any way (to make room in a measure for more notes). On the other hand, values for duration LARGER than a 32nd note do change the duration and affects the staff view.
 
Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks
Daniel
#1

7 Replies Related Threads

    Beagle
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 47307
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re:Quantize in MC5 - Staff View 2012/06/10 18:51:53 (permalink)
    unfortumantely Daniel, I'm not an expert at quantizing MIDI.  I'm not sure many of us here in this forum are (tho I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that). 

    this may be a limitation of the MC quantization feature, but it might just be lack of knowledge on how to accomplish it.

    If I get some time I'll see if I can play with the feature some and get some insight on what you're doing, but I just don't know much about it.

    http://forum.christiansongwriters.org
    http://www.beaglesound.com/
    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i5 2500K, 16G DDR3, Win7x64, Asus P8P67, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Privia PX-3, Yamaha MO6, Hammond XK3c
    #2
    Guitarhacker
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 23290
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
    • Location: NC
    • Status: offline
    Re:Quantize in MC5 - Staff View 2012/06/11 08:46:37 (permalink)
    I was thinking the resolution went to 128th triplets.... but I might be wrong.... I rarely use MC5 and don't have the time right now to open it and look.... 

    perhaps later I can do this.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #3
    Beagle
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 47307
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re:Quantize in MC5 - Staff View 2012/06/11 09:12:41 (permalink)
    also, increase the resolution to 960 PPM and that might allow higher resolution up to 128th triplets.

    http://forum.christiansongwriters.org
    http://www.beaglesound.com/
    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i5 2500K, 16G DDR3, Win7x64, Asus P8P67, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Privia PX-3, Yamaha MO6, Hammond XK3c
    #4
    dlong241950
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 28
    • Joined: 2012/06/03 13:06:28
    • Status: offline
    Re:Quantize in MC5 - Staff View 2012/06/11 14:20:56 (permalink)
    Beagle


    also, increase the resolution to 960 PPM and that might allow higher resolution up to 128th triplets.

    Sorry, I just looked at the options for my project and it is already set to 960 Parts Per Quarter Note, not 720. So, no difference.
     
    Thank all for looking at this. I know it is an obscure feature, but I'm convinced it was deliberately limited. If you look at the notes in staff view, there is a single "flag" on the stem of the note to indicate an 8th note; 2 flags for 16th; 3 flags for 32nd; (4 flags for 64th; 5 flags for 128th). In staff view, more than three flags would look messy on the screen! So, the limitation would probably be the drawing of the notes on the screen. The actual table that quantizes the notes less than 32nd notes was probably disabled because of the screen drawing limitations. Just a guess.
     
    Love MC5. It's a great product for the money.
    #5
    Guitarhacker
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 23290
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
    • Location: NC
    • Status: offline
    Re:Quantize in MC5 - Staff View 2012/06/11 16:26:28 (permalink)
    dude... that is some mighty fast playing..... to play a 128th note triplet..... 

    I can't imagine the application for such a note.....well I can actually,  but in reality......? Nahhhh

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #6
    dlong241950
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 28
    • Joined: 2012/06/03 13:06:28
    • Status: offline
    Re:Quantize in MC5 - Staff View 2012/06/11 18:17:09 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    dude... that is some mighty fast playing..... to play a 128th note triplet..... 

    I can't imagine the application for such a note.....well I can actually,  but in reality......? Nahhhh

    :-)
    Actually it's very common in classical music. I've got a pile of scores here, and the one I'm trying to digitize is Mozart: Quintet for Piano and Winds. The 64th note triplets are actually in a fairly slow passage (There are no 128th in this) so it doesn't sound super fast, but it's still written out that way in the score.
    #7
    dlong241950
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 28
    • Joined: 2012/06/03 13:06:28
    • Status: offline
    Re:Quantize in MC5 - Staff View 2012/06/11 19:54:07 (permalink)
    This afternoon, I thought of a work-around for this "problem" and it actually works! Score purists would not approve, but here's how it's done for all of you score/staff people:
    I have a passage in 3/4 time (3=beats per measure; 4=quarter note gets one beat) at a tempo of 60 beats per minute.
    The score reads  [using: Q=quarter note; 8=8th note; 16=16th note; 32 = 32nd note; 64=64th note; dot = dotted)
     
    | 16. 32 16 16. 32 64 64 64 64 64 64| tempo=60 in 3/4 time (as written in score)
     
    The workaround is to take that one measure and make two measures out of it, then double the note duration value for each note. Finally, insert a new tempo for double what you had (60 bpm becomes 120 bpm) at the beginning of measure 1.
    The above becomes:
     
    Measure 1    |   Measure 2                     |
    |   8. 16 8  | 8. 16 32 32 32 32 32 32 | tempo=120 in 3/4 time (as written in staff view on MC5)
     
    (keeping in mind, e.g. that an 8th note has a duration twice as long as a 16th note, etc.)
     
    I believe that tempo changes affect all tracks in a project, so keep that in mind when writing out the other parts/voices. Be sure to set/insert the original tempo back if there are no more weird/unsupported notes in the score.
    Convoluted? You betcha. but it works.
     
    Les Paul, when he recorded in the studio, often played some very fast riffs slowly at one speed, then turned up the playback speed x2. He then overdubbed tracks at that speed. Some of his songs were incredible.
     
    post edited by dlong241950 - 2012/06/11 20:00:52
    #8
    Jump to:
    © 2014 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1