Really, how many mic preamps should a sane home studio owner have?

Technically I have, 12 in my Soundcraft mixer, a Studio Projects VTB 1, a JoeMeek TwinQ, a Universal Audio 170 Twinfinity and ultimately an Avalon 737.  But yet, I catch myself scanning Craigslist and ebay trying to find the "good deal" on an ART Pro MPA or a UA 610 or a Golden Age Preamp.
There is no way that I would be lacking a pre amp in any realistic situation.  Is this silly or what?

Are you asking me?

Since I rarely record full (or even partial) bands I'd say I have myself covered with my three main preamps. 

P-Solo
Grace m-101
UA-610

Plus I have 4 in my RME Fireface UFX. And, if I ever need them I have 8 each in my TASCAM FW-1884 and my Berhinger ADA-8000 (both lightpiped to my RME).

So I guess I have 23 now that you ask.

I don't scour anywhere 

bapu


Are you asking me?

Since I rarely record full (or even partial) bands I'd say I have myself covered with my three main preamps. 

P-Solo
Grace m-101
UA-610

Plus I have 4 in my RME Fireface UFX. And, if I ever need them I have 8 each in my TASCAM FW-1884 and my Berhinger ADA-8000 (both lightpiped to my RME).

So I guess I have 23 now that you ask.

I don't scour anywhere 
 
 

This is comforting.  You have it worse than me. 

Yes, but I did not plan it.

Does that make me a bad person?

bapu


Yes, but I did not plan it.

Does that make me a bad person?

Oh you poor soul, latent GAS.

Dave, sincere question:

Do you spend time trying to match different pairs of mic and pre for every instrument/voice you record hoping to strike gold, or do you just go by a notion of what the combinations should sound like? Do you find there's a lot to gain from experimenting? 

Sven

SvenArne


Dave, sincere question:

Do you spend time trying to match different pairs of mic and pre for every instrument/voice you record hoping to strike gold, or do you just go by a notion of what the combinations should sound like? Do you find there's a lot to gain from experimenting? 

Sven

I love the quest for tone.  Sometimes it's wonderful accidents that occur with a mic, an instrument and a pre.  Up until recently, I only had the pres in my Soundcraft M12 and the SP VTB1 to use.  The M12 pres sound very close to the UA 710 and the Avalon 737 if you take the extra features of the more expensive units out of the equation.  I loved just moving mics around on cabinets or trying amp/cabinet combinations with different mics and combinations of mics.  When you hit something that works it's glorius. 
 
Now that I have some different mic pres, I'm enjoying the experimentation again.   Yes, I think there is a lot to gain with the experimentation.  I'm discovering that it (what you gain) isn't always apparent and immediate to you though.  When you start adding the different takes and tracks together that's when the magic happens.  You're not layering the same characteristic mic pre sound over and over again so where my M12 pres had a  good sound but a touch of hardness (kind of metallic) to them, that characteristic compounded with each successive track.  It's something that you don't always notice when it's happening.  It's nice to use different pres for different instruments
 
But home studios are about compromise and versatility, IMHO.  Limited time and budget have to factor in.  A cook may have an extensive collection of spices and sauces but if he never bought a pot to cook in, he's be in trouble so that's where I'm at with my post.  I've got to balance things out.  I've got a few nice pres (for a home studio) now, so I think I'm switching fetishes to mics.    I think it's time to stick my toe in the water in the Neumann pool with a TLM 102 followed by a 103.  (Wish I could spend the dough for a U87 but that will be a while.)

It really depends.  I would think one for every instrument you want to record simulataneously, which is really only a problem if you do drums.  I get by w/ 2 (now up to 3), plus my interface's.  They aren't colors (or is it colours?), but for quality.  right now I have a portico for guitar, a focusrite for bass and the new api-like one for a single drum mic augmented by the interface.  I'd like more, but ...

@

You need at least one more. Buy the REDD47 I'm selling :-) Then your life will be complete.

i think the perfect number for a HOME studio, is two.

if you have a nice collection of mics, a pair of  nice preamps, one slightly colored, and one really clean, would be an ideal accompaniment.

the variations between clean and colored, and all the mics, would let you mix it up enough to have a wide frequency range, and not be stuck in one sonic footprint.

Electronic and modern production studios. One or two that are great instead. One for VOX MIC-tracking like Manley Voicebox, Focusrite, Avalon

+ one in Stereo operation, Main mix, example SPL gold Mike.

Mod Bod


Technically I have, 12 in my Soundcraft mixer, a Studio Projects VTB 1, a JoeMeek TwinQ, a Universal Audio 170 Twinfinity and ultimately an Avalon 737.  But yet, I catch myself scanning Craigslist and ebay trying to find the "good deal" on an ART Pro MPA or a UA 610 or a Golden Age Preamp.
There is no way that I would be lacking a pre amp in any realistic situation.  Is this silly or what?

I love all Art products. If you know how to use them they can sound amazing.
ART Pro MPA sounds good and has got great reviews. You can change the tubes any time to get unique sound that only you have in your studio.
 
SPL Gold mike are good preamp too.

bapu


Are you asking me?

Since I rarely record full (or even partial) bands I'd say I have myself covered with my three main preamps. 

P-Solo
Grace m-101
UA-610

Plus I have 4 in my RME Fireface UFX. And, if I ever need them I have 8 each in my TASCAM FW-1884 and my Berhinger ADA-8000 (both lightpiped to my RME).

So I guess I have 23 now that you ask.

I don't scour anywhere 

Funny that you mention the Berhinger ADA-8000. That's one low-end product that sounds great.
Many prefer  Berhinger ADA-8000 over Lynx Aurora 16. I like the Berhringer! Can you hear the difference?
 
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/335267-lynx-aurora-16-vs-behringer-ada8000.html

Focusrite ISA One
Focusrite Platinum Voicemaster
dbx 286A
32 in my Soundcraft Spirit Studio
And if push comes to shove, 12 each in 2 x Spirit Folio SX

So..... 59?


Hang on, 2 more in my new Saffire 6 USB
8 in my Saffire PRO 26IO
And technically there's one in my Digitech Midi Vocalist

So... 70


In reality, only about a dozen of these would be used for recording

Bristol_Jonesey


Focusrite ISA One
Focusrite Platinum Voicemaster
dbx 286A
32 in my Soundcraft Spirit Studio
And if push comes to shove, 12 each in 2 x Spirit Folio SX

So..... 59?


Hang on, 2 more in my new Saffire 6 USB
8 in my Saffire PRO 26IO
And technically there's one in my Digitech Midi Vocalist

So... 70


In reality, only about a dozen of these would be used for recording

So, I'm guessing that the Soundcraft is there because it's cheaper to keep her than to let her go?  Or do you track large projects?

I've tracked a couple of bands but it's utter chaos (in my small studio) that I don't really enjoy.  I like working with soloists and 1-3 musicians.

I just keep it there because it's so convenient to be able to route any old thing into either monitors or Sonar.

I've got a CD player, a Minidisc recorder & a Cassette Deck  all wired in, all ready for recording should the need ever arise.

All my rack mounted stuff goes into it (POD/V-Amp/TLA 2100 etc) as well as three outboard synths and I've got various groups set up, the group outputs feed straight into the Saffire and into Sonar.

There's also a convoluted headphone set up which goes to the headphone amp.

I've only ever tracked a couple of bands live, and that was with my old Fostex D90's. We (me & the wife) only ever do our own stuff so there's never more than 2 of us recording. This might change 'cos I want to do a pub choir for a certain song.

I've got a CD player, a Minidisc recorder & a Cassette Deck  all wired in, all ready for recording should the need ever arise. All my rack mounted stuff goes into it (POD/V-Amp/TLA 2100 etc) as well as three outboard synths and I've got various groups set up, the group outputs feed straight into the Saffire and into Sonar.

Good idea.  I should do the same thing with the extra channels I don't use on my M12.

I would like to have at least 1 more. Right now and for the years past, I get the job done with a Peavey VMP2 for the big and warm sound - clean from the GB30 on a Soundcraft mixer. 

I've got to balance things out.  I've got a few nice pres (for a home studio) now, so I think I'm switching fetishes to mics.    I think it's time to stick my toe in the water in the Neumann pool with a TLM 102 followed by a 103.  (Wish I could spend the dough for a U87 but that will be a while.)

So, I lied.  The U87 is on the way.  I figured why waste time and money buying two mics that I really didn't want when I'll end up eventually getting what I really want.  Happy Fathers Day to me.  

Dave,

cool.  It is an investment.  And Father's day present.  Don't tell my daughter but it is better than the model catapult she got me.

;-)

Dave, I am sooooooo relieved to hear you made that decision. I've followed the threads where you've talked about the 102 and 103 and cringed thinking you might actually do that. I owned two 103's and sold them straight away. Harsh and strident to my ears, a trait common with the 102. Good choice my friend!

Also, if you're looking for a warm sonically pleasing vocal mic you could do much worse than an AT 4060 tube mic. I think AT mics are extremely underrated. I have a pair of 4033's and a pair of 4041's which get used exclusively for stereo miking my Martin HD 28  and other acoustic instruments.

And I just picked up a new AEA R84 long ribbon which I'm loving on some female vocals. I'm running it through a LaChappell 583 tube preamp and it drips velvet!

Other mics include:

2x SM81's
3x Beta 98's (drums)
Beta 52
2x Cascade Fatheads Ribbons
2x CAD E100's
1x Octava ML 52 Ribbon modded by Micheal Joly
1x Beta 91
1x EV RE20
1x Shure Sm 27
Several 57's

As far as preamps, I currently have:

Dav BG-1 2 channel
2x Neve 1073 LB's
2x A Designs P-1's
1x Purple Biz MK
1x Brent Averill API with a vintage 2520 opamp
1x OSA MPC-1
2x Great River 500NV
1x LaChappell 583s

I have a pair of Shadow Hills Mono Gama's on the way.

However, I run a commercial operation and have a much great need for a larger selection of mics and preamps.

For a home studio a couple of Great River pres can carry you a long way. They can be clean as a whistle or you can overdrive the output stage to get some very sweet harmonic distortion. A great all-rounder!

I've always felt that even a small home studio should have higher quality gear even if in small amounts. Because if it's crap going in, it'll be crap when it squirts out the black boxes.

My 2¢...

Earl

I've always felt that even a small home studio should have higher quality gear even if in small amounts. Because if it's crap going in, it'll be crap when it squirts out the black boxes.

 
I am definitely making a turn toward that direction.  My vision is a small-moderate amount of quality gear and very personalized attention.  Who is going to be impressed with "Yeah, but I have a ton of cheap gear in a little room."  If I can get the lead vocalist to sound better than they've ever heard themselves before, I've got a repeat customer.  I'm already getting that kind of feedback from the people I have recorded since I stepped up my game preamp-wise.  So, why compromise what's going in the box in the very first step in the signal chain?
 
BTW: Impressed with your gear list.

For a "home studio" the better the gear the better off you are.  Most of us at home aren't tracking drums often or orchestras.  It is better to use a real studio for that.  But for any acoustics we do record, we need to the best quality we can afford.  One really good channel strip can get us one really good track at a time recording.

@

I am with the higher quality but fewer pieces of hardware crowd. 3 preamps here, Portico 5012 (x2) and a Brick for DI. Leaving plugins behind and replacing them with a few good pieces i.e 1176 & LA2A, Portico 5043, 160x. The next challenge is to leave a few of the lo end reverb units behind and get either a Lexicon or Bricasti. Sold off all my low end hardware and moving to a few solid high end pieces. Running Lynx converters.

Bricasti M7!

Dave: Congratulations on getting the U87....you'll thank yourself many times over , as will your clients. The U87 will be a great match with your UA710

Gaffpro


Dave: Congratulations on getting the U87....you'll thank yourself many times over , as will your clients. The U87 will be a great match with your UA710

Hopefully, it will work well with the Avalon 737 as well. 

Thanks all for the attention (and helpful comments) that the thread is getting.

I did the 103 thing for awhile. Now I am using the TLM49 which is good. Next year I will make the U87 jump to see how much more that brings. I just upgraded to a PX79 MB and i7 3930k chip. That was my big spend for this year. Close to a grand but 12 threads on 6 cores is like taking the space shuttle to Wendy's for a burger. Latency is .72ms at 32 buffers. HooRa!

My precious.

Awesome. Enjoy.

Mod Bod


Technically I have, 12 in my Soundcraft mixer, a Studio Projects VTB 1, a JoeMeek TwinQ, a Universal Audio 170 Twinfinity and ultimately an Avalon 737.  But yet, I catch myself scanning Craigslist and ebay trying to find the "good deal" on an ART Pro MPA or a UA 610 or a Golden Age Preamp.
There is no way that I would be lacking a pre amp in any realistic situation.  Is this silly or what?

A pair of 1073 LB or 512c pres has been great for me! The 1073 for snare, kick and vocals is amazing.

I would be interested in a review of your UA 710 now that you've had it for a while. Have you used it with an AKG414 yet?  This one really has my interest...

musicroom


I would be interested in a review of your UA 710 now that you've had it for a while. Have you used it with an AKG414 yet?  This one really has my interest...

I like it in that you can add varying amounts of creaminess to the sound or none at all.  Meaning, if I am using my GT66 mic, I can run purely solid state.  If I am using my other condensers, I can add a bit of tube warmth.

I miked up my guitar cabinet with a 57 and listened thru my Soundcraft, the UA710 and the Avalon 737.  The differences were slightly varying levels of different characteristics.  The Soundcraft sounded good - surprisingly good compared to the other two.  But it had a bit of a metal bite to it.  It wasn't a bad sound at all but it was like aluminum is compared to steel.  Still had a sort of bark in the mid range but not obnoxious.  The UA710 was like a piece of sanded aluminum where the edges are smoothed out and the blemishes start to disappear.  The Avalon was more like translucent aluminum.  More clarity but again the sharp edges were smoothed.

This is about the dumbest comparison I've ever come up with but that's exactly the impression I got.


I think the UA 710 is great for it's versatility.  You can go from a Grace 101, no coloration kind of sound to a nice rounded tone.  I never drive it until it distorts.  I tried it on guitar straight into the Hi-Z input but I didn't what I got.  I prefer the cream in the coffee to take the edge off approach.  (Once again a dumb metaphor.)


When I get a chance, I'll likely get another to make a stereo set.   Actually, I wouldn't mind having the model with the 4 x710s in it.

Before that, I think I might try to go for a Vintech 1073 clone.

Thanks for taking the time to tell about the sound of the UA710. I actually liked your metaphors and understand what you're saying. They helped. 

I have the UA710 along with Phoenix Audio DRS-Q4M mk2 high on my wish list right now. Not totally out of the running are the grace 101 and golden age pre-73. I found some clips of the pre-73 on a web site and have to say those clips left me with more questions than answers. 

I own a peavey vmp2 and I really like it - alot, but I'm wanting add another choice. The vmp2 gives a very warm tube sound along with nice clarity. Works great on most vocals and always great on acoustic and bass. 

Thanks Again!

Bristol_Jonesey


I've got a CD player, a Minidisc recorder & a Cassette Deck all wired in, all ready for recording should the need ever arise.

Wow, what a relief that is - to hear that I'm not the only one with the minidisc recorder wired in.  Whew!

there's always one more on the horizon



:-)

Dave: Have you tried the Vintech X73i? I bought mine over ten years ago from the owner "Dallas" and at the time his facility was right outside Tampa......it's been a really great piece.......lately I'm using my UA610 which I really love...sounds great on everything

Gaffpro


Dave: Have you tried the Vintech X73i? I bought mine over ten years ago from the owner "Dallas" and at the time his facility was right outside Tampa......it's been a really great piece.......lately I'm using my UA610 which I really love...sounds great on everything

I have a local friend who has a big time "crush" on the man.  I haven't tried it yet but I did check out one of the YouTube videos that Vintech has that shows a side by side comparison of a 1073 and the 73i clone.  If it wasn't exact, it sounded closer than I could detect.

I have to slow down the GAS attacks to do some repairs and upgrades to the Mod Bod Compound and prepare for what might be a downtick in the business economy.  But I'll likely survive all that like I have before and I'll be looking at the 73i on the upside of my next mountain climb.  Right now, if I can't get it down with the nice stuff I have then it's me with the issues.

I'd heard that the transformers on the new ones may be different than the one I have (I bought mine 8 or 9 years ago)....don't know for sure.....Dallas is a great guy, he showed me the giant shed where he builds them......btw I have a few musician friends in Brandon...Michele & James Pruyn (you may know them)...she's an excellent jazz vocalist, as his he, and James doubles on trumpet and drums

Actually, I wouldn't mind having the model with the 4 x710s in it

 
I picked one of these up about a month ago. Still learning the ins and out (so to speak) of it but great bang for the buck imo.
 
Regards,

Mod Bod


My precious.

Congratulations on your choice. I think it was the best decision to make. I got one too about a year ago and love it. Many folks bash the newer U87ai over the vintage U87. I had a vintage one for a week and liked my new one better (blind test BTW). I also have a KSM27. The KSM27 is a gem of a mic for it's price. You must try the SM7b too.
 
I'm glad you were able to predict your eventual GAS outcome as this will have undoubtedly saved you one or two purchases prior to your endgame mic.
 
I'm also with the fewer pieces of quality gear gang. I have Portico 5012, 5016 and a Sytek. I can't see me ever moving from this. Same with comps, I have a Mohog (1176-type) and an API 2500. That'll do for me. Mind you, I'm keen to perhaps explore the Opto side of comps to see if I'm missing anything. However, the recent price increase of LA2As have me leaning more towards a Distressor instead - which I know only mimics Opto.
 
I'm trying to get my GAS down to just plectrums - wish me luck. 
 
 
Stewart

Finding a reasonably priced LA2A took me about a year. I picked it up for $1800. This after tracking Craigslist, ebay and several other sites like Vintage King, Primal Gear etc. almost daily. Found one, of all places, at a Guitar Center and in mint condition.

Middleman


Finding a reasonably priced LA2A took me about a year. I picked it up for $1800. This after tracking Craigslist, ebay and several other sites like Vintage King, Primal Gear etc. almost daily. Found one, of all places, at a Guitar Center and in mint condition.

Cheers Middleman. I'll probably go down the same route - if I can find one that is.
 
With regard to small selections of quality gear and the way the business is going, I reckon it may be hobby based 'would-be' pro enthusiasts who may become sought after and get good reputations in their geographical areas. This being especially so if their gear is good and matches their talent, experience and service delivery. Musicians who previously didn't give a hoot about recording gear are now a lot more knowledgable about gear and beginning to be fussy about this in regard to where they record. 
 
Having said this, I reckon there will still be a number of bigger studios around, albeit perhpas to a lesser degree than currently. Who knows though.
 
Stewart