Freddie H
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Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE! You need to change the SMPTE CLOCK 1 hour in in SYNC Preferences 01:00:00:00:00. to stay in correct sync with audio.
Use 30 FPS Non Drop. not 29.97 FPS df as shown at the picture
It's apply to anyone. If you use a audio card, midi interface that you do working with sonar it is important to change SMPTE one hour in, even for those that work ITB.
So make a long story short! So why take a chance getting problems down the road if you can prevent them today? 
Changing it to 1 hour in (01:00:00:00:00) will guarantee you that you will have the best experience working with any DAW now or in the future.
post edited by Freddie H - 2012/07/26 10:56:47
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 08:42:01
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SMPTE was originally developed in the days of black and white television. Drop frame (as in 29.97d) had to be created with the invention of color tv, because a colour show was slighly longer than the same black and white counterpart. Thus the reason for drop frame for SMPTE to be interchangeable with different media types. Drop frames occur at 00:00:00:00:00, but not at 01:00:00:00:00. Hey, I hope a 40 year career in television gives me the creative licence to simplify the explanation for the masses. 
post edited by stonehedge - 2012/07/24 08:56:17
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Barczar
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 09:05:54
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I didn't understand any of that. But I trust you guys. If I make this change will it affect my current projects?
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 09:19:10
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Barczar
I didn't understand any of that. But I trust you guys. If I make this change will it affect my current projects?
No, it shouldn't unless some of your projects are syncing to external harware using SMPTE, or previous video files.
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Alegria
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 10:06:56
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So if I make the adjustment as proposed by Freddie, shouldn't the "Timecode Format" also be adjusted to "29.97 FPS ndf"?
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Jyri T.
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 10:09:13
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Does this explain why some clips (with a proper time stamp) get imported so far in the time line that you sometimes don't notice them at all and start wondering why the clip didn't show up?
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Jimbo 88
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 10:41:17
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I change my offset to match what my client sends me.
As Freddie points out everyone usually starts at 1 hour. The simple reason for that is problems when crossing "midnight". in the past machines need pre roll so starting before 00:00:00:00 caused problems.
When I work on TV shows my offset is 00:59:50:00 for the 1st segment. That gives me a 10 second pre roll and the show starts at 01:00:00:00.
I'm supposed to be given Drop Frame for reasons mentioned, but because newbie editors simetimes don't know this I can receive anything.
I make it a habit to check the frame acuracy from the burnt in TC to Sonar's just to make sure I'm going to keep sync. But that has not been an issue for many years.
If seg 2 (after the 1st commercial break) starts at say 01:12:18:04....I set my offset 10 seconds before that. Then when I send my OMFs to be mixed into the TV show the music stems drop right into place for the audio mixer.
When I do film work I start my cues in Sonar 10 seconds before the 1st frame of music for the exact same reasons.
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 10:59:57
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Alegria
So if I make the adjustment as proposed by Freddie, shouldn't the "Timecode Format" also be adjusted to "29.97 FPS ndf"?
I think that is just where his screen capture was when he copied it. Set it to where you need it Example below 30 is the norm for mulititrack audio studios. 29.97 when syncing with NTSC video. 25 for PAL and SECAM 30 for ATSC video(north america) 24 for film The important part is for all synced devices to be the same.
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 11:06:29
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Jyri T.
Does this explain why some clips (with a proper time stamp) get imported so far in the time line that you sometimes don't notice them at all and start wondering why the clip didn't show up?
Yes that is one possible reason. Especially if they are Broadcast waves which use the SMPTE timestamp
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John
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 12:22:38
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Freddie H
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 12:48:24
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stonehedge
Alegria
So if I make the adjustment as proposed by Freddie, shouldn't the "Timecode Format" also be adjusted to "29.97 FPS ndf"?
I think that is just where his screen capture was when he copied it.
Set it to where you need it
Example below
30 is the norm for mulititrack audio studios.
29.97 when syncing with NTSC video.
25 for PAL and SECAM
30 for ATSC video(north america)
24 for film
The important part is for all synced devices to be the same.
Yes you are correct. Sorry for any confusions.  I use 30 FPS Non Drop for any AUDIO work. Otherwise it's "TV-PAL" 25FPS that supposed to be the standard in Europe, but most still use 30 frames for audio.
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Freddie H
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 12:53:27
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○ 23.976 frames per second (FPS). Typically used with H.264/MPEG-4 AVC video.
○ 24 frames per second (FPS). Used for theatrical film worldwide. Any film in North America or Japan uses this setting.
○ 25 FPS. Used for PAL/SECAM video and some film in countries that use 50 Hz wall electricity. This is the setting to use when synchronizing to any European video format.
○ 29.97 FPS Drop. NTSC broadcast and long format video in North America and Japan. This setting synchronizes the video perfectly with SONAR, but the sequencer position displayed in the Now Time and Big Time displays will gradually drift and become incorrect over long periods of time. The audio and MIDI synchronization to the external device will not be affected by this discrepancy.
○ 29.97 FPS Non Drop. NTSC non-broadcast and short length video in North America and Japan. Used for some music projects. This setting synchronizes the video perfectly with SONAR, but the sequencer position displayed in the Now Time and Big Time displays will gradually drift and become incorrect over long periods of time. The audio and MIDI synchronization to the external device will not be affected by this discrepancy.
○ 30 FPS Drop. Not a standard type of timecode, used rarely for speed correction and transfer problems in tape based systems.
○ 30 FPS Non Drop. Most music projects and some film in North America. This is the best choice for any music project and should be used unless the situation dictates otherwise.
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 13:23:27
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Freddie H
○ 23.976 frames per second (FPS). Typically used with H.264/MPEG-4 AVC video.
commonly used in 3:2 pulldown 23.976 HD video formats (why there is lip-sync problems in some videos)
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musicroom
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 13:32:31
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On the same table is the clock setting. I'm not syncing to anything external right now - AUDIO is listed as my clock selection in preferences. Is this correct or should it be INTERNAL that is checked?
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 13:49:48
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musicroom
On the same table is the clock setting. I'm not syncing to anything external right now - AUDIO is listed as my clock selection in preferences. Is this correct or should it be INTERNAL that is checked?
Audio is perfect , especially if you are using a good external card
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Alegria
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 14:00:55
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Very informative. Thanks to Freddie and stonehedge for the details. Bookmarked!
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musicroom
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/24 14:23:26
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stonehedge
musicroom
On the same table is the clock setting. I'm not syncing to anything external right now - AUDIO is listed as my clock selection in preferences. Is this correct or should it be INTERNAL that is checked?
Audio is perfect , especially if you are using a good external card
Thanks!
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Freddie H
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 08:33:23
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Great that you all like it!
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chuckebaby
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 09:34:04
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you know freddie sometimes im not always sure what im going to hear with you...lol..your a creative character,this looks very informative,thank you,stone as well.
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 09:51:25
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konradh
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 10:48:12
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jyri t, I nearly lost my mind once because I kept pasting sound effects that I had purchased into a project and then couldn't find them. I finally realized they were broadcast files and were jumping to their time-stamped location—like an hour after the end of my song.
I did fix the problem, but not by making this change recommended here (although this is a good change). I will meditate today to recall what I did: i think it was a simple paste option or something, but I will don't recall. I will get back to you.
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 12:56:17
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konradh
jyri t, I nearly lost my mind once because I kept pasting sound effects that I had purchased into a project and then couldn't find them. I finally realized they were broadcast files and were jumping to their time-stamped location—like an hour after the end of my song.
I did fix the problem, but not by making this change recommended here (although this is a good change). I will meditate today to recall what I did: i think it was a simple paste option or something, but I will don't recall. I will get back to you.
Resaving the file as a regular wave (sans the SMPTE info) would do it.
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garrigus
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 14:42:58
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Jimbo 88
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 16:49:24
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Honestly this topic is on its way to being outdated. I have a suspicion TC is going to be replaced by just a real time clock any day now. SYMPTE is based on frames and frames just don't exist any more.
I know Mike McCue is reading this tread and shaking his head.....
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Jimbo 88
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 16:54:03
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hey I know I can't spell very well, but what is wrong with word "Su****ion"? It just means I have a hunch
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dan le
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 18:59:52
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OK so after 25 posts, I have not fully understood it yet. Do we do like Freddie said or not.
thanks
dan le
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stonehedge
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/25 22:23:15
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dan le
OK so after 25 posts, I have not fully understood it yet. Do we do like Freddie said or not.
thanks
dan le
Dan If you are not tracking to video in your project, or trying to sync up hardware (like adats, Alesis Hd 24's, roland vs recorders, etc) you don't really have to worry about it. Hope that helps
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dan le
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Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/26 01:59:26
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Thanks for chiming in.
No I fully got it. If there no slaving, then there is no need for this. That's the way it has always been,
But what I don't understand is Freddie never came back and made it clear.
This type of thread confuses a lot of newbies, don't you think?
So what is the purpose of this thread? In the original post, there was no mention of slaving any other hardware at all. I kept reading and re-reading this whole thread, just to make sure that I did not miss anything.
At first glance, I thought that this would be a revelation as how to end the drop outs that we have had with Sonar up to 8.5 now X1.
But it is not.
The thread is still very helpful. But for the majority of people who do ITB, this does not apply to them at all.
Still thanks to everybody who contributed to this thread.
best
dan le
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Freddie H
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/26 07:12:28
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dan le
Thanks for chiming in.
No I fully got it. If there no slaving, then there is no need for this. That's the way it has always been,
But what I don't understand is Freddie never came back and made it clear.
This type of thread confuses a lot of newbies, don't you think?
So what is the purpose of this thread? In the original post, there was no mention of slaving any other hardware at all. I kept reading and re-reading this whole thread, just to make sure that I did not miss anything.
At first glance, I thought that this would be a revelation as how to end the drop outs that we have had with Sonar up to 8.5 now X1.
But it is not.
The thread is still very helpful. But for the majority of people who do ITB, this does not apply to them at all.
Still thanks to everybody who contributed to this thread.
best
dan le
Dan! It's apply to anyone. If you use a audio card, midi interface that you do working with sonar it is important to change SMPTE one hour in, even for those that work ITB. Why? Because all hardware expecting that time code to be 1 hour in mode, example your audiocard or midi-interface. Perhaps you use A-dat converters with sync to internal A-dat sync clock- WORD CLOCK contains the timecode embedded in the a-data signal. If you set SONAR to 00:00:00:00:00 the time code used is incorrect because the audiocard and A-dat word clock SYNC are setup to example 48kHz and SMPTE 01:00:00:00:00. If you use 00:00:00:00:00 you can or "might" get dropouts of audio, midi on software synths and plugins drift in time and other unstable matters working in any DAW. So make a long story short! So why take a chance getting problems down the road if you can prevent them today? Changing it to 1 hour in (01:00:00:00:00) will guarantee you that you will have the best experience working with any DAW now or in the future. Hope it helps clear up the confusions! More info! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_timecode
post edited by Freddie H - 2012/07/26 10:54:47
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konradh
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Re:Tip of the day! Importance to set correct SMPTE CLOCK, 1 hour in MODE!
2012/07/26 11:19:10
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I wanted to cut some songs that were originally done on a VS-1680. I imported the MIDI and RealGuitar from the old Sonar files, but I had a few guest players (lead guitar) and some vocals on the 1680 that I didn't want to lose. I sync-ed the 1680 to X1, connected a digital cable from the 1680 to the VS-700 interface and it worked perfectly.
Timing was perfect and the machines locked up instantly.
The audio quality was actually better than I expected. Clean recordings on the 1680 were completely usable.
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