Helpful ReplyNext update SONAR X2B...when...x64bit VS 32bit.. the future of Cakewalk?

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Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/15 16:36:40 (permalink)
 "isnt primetime ......nothing that stops me from using this as my main daw,24/7 "

+1 right
I just like some small improvements fixed and addons.


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#31
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/15 16:43:51 (permalink)
Keni


Beepster


Considering all the stuff that didn't get fixed and the new things they broke with the "a" patch they'd better be working on something. If we gotta wait for more than a couple more months I'll be looking at Cubase instead of upgrading to X3 next go around. I really don't want to do that but by that time I'm definitely gonna need something I can count on because I intend to be making some money off this stuff by then. If they get it up to X1d stability standards I can live with that. 


I'm in the same boat, but I already know that I can't depend on Cubase either... It has it's equivalent share of issues.

That's my current dilemma. I use to count on Sonar... even with bugs it made my work easier and more productive than any of the others... Hands down...

Now? It still has the same underlying engine, but the new trappings of the X generation have fouled so many things... and improved a few, but the ratio is far heavier on the down side (for me)...

But the competition is no better... Sonar used to be better, but it's now coming down to level with the others instead of above them (for me)... So at this point I simply continue to use it because I'm familiar with it... I will not be any happier or faster with the competition's products or I would already have switched!

I've always loved Cakewalk's products and their' very devoted team.... But I still work in awe of many current decisions....


So I'm trapped between a rock and a hard place.... and I stay with Sonar and belly-ache as my work fills me with frustration instead of joy.... It's amazing how something others might consider good or not important, etc. can affect others.... <sigh>

As with the name of my most recently completed song...

Feelin' So Sad

Yes I am!

Keni

IF Cakewalk just add support of VST3 convert PRO CHANNEL to VST3 format and flexible, resizable GUI console view like Cubase 7 they will be on top again. 
Lets face it, SONAR Pro channel modules are in world class quality.
I also want to be able to change ALL COLORS in SONAR not just some, like in the old days. 
A better "Preference" dialog without an hidden INI or AUDIO-files settings dialogs that you need to use Wordpad to edit ???


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#32
Keni
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/15 17:02:37 (permalink)
BTW...

Even with my complaints and issues, I'm using X2a for all my projects...

There is no problem with it recording/playing/etc... The issues are only editing systems (for me) and determine how comfortable I am and how easy it is for me to do my work....

So maybe I should thank The Bakers as this means it takes more time for me to work, hence I need to charge the client for the time, right?

Sadly, but not.... I end up writing off more of my time as I feel it's "my fault" it took so long... Even tho (to me) it's Sonar's current state that's forcing the time issue for me...

How much time must I "waste" every time I need to edit a clip on a lane when it means zooming, re-sizing, adjusting what is on the screen (not part of the resizing itself) and then finally editing... It' really a pain to me, but I still get the work done (and still have time to search for a therapist to deal with my raised anger levels before I throw the PC out the window! ;-))

Keni


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#33
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/16 09:43:17 (permalink)
What about CHANDLER LIMITED FET Germanium Compressor as a new PRO Channel Module in next update?
Who would love that?
http://chandlerlimited.com/germanium-compressor/



-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#34
Keni
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/16 10:29:21 (permalink)
Freddie H


What about CHANDLER LIMITED FET Germanium Compressor as a new PRO Channel Module in next update?
Who would love that?
http://chandlerlimited.com/germanium-compressor/




Hi Freddie...

Yeah... That would be a nice treat, but honestly? I'd much rather they gave us no new plugins but fixed the issues around Lanes/Layers (I won't rant)...

Keni


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#35
Keysman
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/17 16:39:45 (permalink)
The Chandler would be cool and I would love to see a Distressor as well!!

Apparently, not all definitions of the expression "24/7" are the same around here. Dont get me wrong, I like the workflow improvements in X2 and the console emulations are fine ( although the Soft Tube does a much more precise job of it instead of the subtle cumulative effect of the console ) but...

 -the Pro Channel irregularities still exist ( loading a preset will occasionally disable one of the modules, ect )...a visually interesting GUI does not make a more stable work tool period.
-Lanes are a good idea but the current version is a jumbled mess in a full time tracking environment....and I mean 6 days a week clients that dont give a crap about your latest 'gee whiz' feature of your DAW that occasionally works.
-still getting occasional app crashes that the details tab/module shows as Sonar. Sometimes several a day.
-projects taking several minutes to open that X1 opened almost instantly.

With the exact same build, X1 would run completely stable for weeks and weeks of continuous, non stop use over 20-30 different projects. If your at home doing projects that mainly consist of the same type of architecture each time then your 'window' of stability will be more narrow. But you start throwing a variety of tracking a recording scenarios at X2 and the wheels come off pretty quickly. To say that X2 is anywhere near as stable as X1 is simply not accurate..the evidence just dosnt bare that out yet.

Hoping a X2b update will change that but for now, thats just not the case. At work, we have reverted back to our X1d build for now so we can get back to being dependable instead of pretty and neurotic.
post edited by Keysman - 2013/02/17 17:21:06
#36
Guitarpima
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/17 23:34:57 (permalink)
[<font]Just as long as the guys who make the patches/updates are not the same guys in charge of the forum software then I'm happy.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire
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#37
Bub
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/17 23:45:10 (permalink)
SteveStrummerUK 
Next update SONAR X2B...when?
 3.41pm GMT, March 17th 2013.
In The Year 2525?

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
#38
stoutlyric
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/17 23:56:59 (permalink)
Bub


SteveStrummerUK 
Next update SONAR X2B...when?
 3.41pm GMT, March 17th 2013.
In The Year 2525?

Nice one! One of my all time favs
#39
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 10:45:40 (permalink)
What???
Have Brandon Ryan left Cakewalk too? First Brandon and now Seth Pearlstein?????
 
 
Are cakewalk ship sinking? Is that's why we don't see any update????

http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2784072


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#40
brconflict
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 11:17:46 (permalink)
There's an old story about KFC's success and one horrible failure of a competitor, referencing Minnie Pearl's Fried Chicken. Minnie Pearl could make some amazing Fried Chicken, so good it would rival KFC in the 60's. In fact, businessmen were begging her to sell the recipe. She finally did, but she wasn't included in the deal. To everyone's surprise, the recipe flopped and the company failed miserably. The reason, which echoes Corporations who make irrational, but sound financial decisions (at least, this is what they were taught by so-called economical MBA experts in college (fundamental failures in their own right)):  

Corporate Businessmen do not know how to cook. 

60% of the reason I bought Sonar was due to Brandon's and Seth's positive influences in the Webinars and their ways of making you feel you made a great investment. Take away the faces, and you take away the brand.  

The brand CakeWalk literally died with their departure, IMO. Now, it's just Roland Sonar. How bland is that!? 

**Exponential expense results in logarithmic return.**

Brian
#41
Paul P
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 11:24:38 (permalink)
I don't know... Roland has a heck of name in my view of things. I don't think it would hurt Sonar.
#42
brconflict
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 11:37:21 (permalink)
I'm not a long-time Sonar user, but my perception of Cakewalk now has gone REALLY south. If I had any reason to go to another DAW, this is a nice little shove in that direction.

I realize this could be to keep an ailing ship from sinking, but these were two faces I could relate to, and feel like I'm getting their fuel to the product as well. 

I think this is tragic. I'll guarantee this, though. I'm already SUPER excited to see who picks these talents up! What a feather in the cap to whoever does!!

**Exponential expense results in logarithmic return.**

Brian
#43
jps
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 12:06:09 (permalink)
Freddie H


What???
Have Brandon Ryan left Cakewalk too? First Brandon and now Seth Pearlstein?????
 
 
Are cakewalk ship sinking? Is that's why we don't see any update????

http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2784072



 No its because the programmers are on vacation on this yacht :-)


#44
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 12:51:22 (permalink)
Both Seth and Brandon has left the Company?
I like to hear from Cakewalk what's going on.



I really strongly have start thinking leaving Cakewalk and go back to Steinberg Cubase 7 when I hear this??.  
Cakewalk has never been as slow on UPDATES as they are now? WHY?

We can only speculate!
If I don't see VST3 and other "no brainer" enhancement soon like example better resizable Console mixer, "Pro Channel" based on VST3 technology, and better and 100% dedicated working suppport of 3part DAW controllers like SSL Nucleus AVID artist series; I willl be out of here...
post edited by Freddie H - 2013/02/19 13:03:36


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#45
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 13:10:03 (permalink)
I hope we can get more info about what the Company are heading? I like to know if Cakewalk is a safe bet invest my money!
A DAW is your mothership, "your home", "working", not like a plugin...


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#46
brconflict
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 13:59:16 (permalink)
Freddie H


I hope we can get more info about what the Company are heading? I like to know if Cakewalk is a safe bet invest my money!
A DAW is your mothership, "your home", "working", not like a plugin...
I sincerely hope to hear some actual plans for Cakewalk, not just a Corporate Bull-etin to even attempt to downplay the significance of Seth and Brandon's departure. I've heard this farce damage-control nonsense before, and it's usually the same sort of old-school political sand-paper you'd rather just not even hear. 

Yeah, when I heard about this, I started seeing the Cakewalk DAW as a sunset. I suspect it will keep going, to say the least, because it would be stupid to sunset it, but I can just "feel" like I'm working with tainted, damaged-good now that these sort of steps have been taken.

If the ship goes down, I don't have much love for Cakewalk/Roland anyway as it is. This just sealed the deal for me. I've likely committed the very last purchase to Cakewalk/Roland I will ever make. 

LET IT BE KNOWN, that IF Cakewalk OR Roland decide to pursue Brandon or Seth for making such announcements or even being regarded in them, I sincerely hope the public hears about it, and fans react. You don't fool your customers! Why did you try?


**Exponential expense results in logarithmic return.**

Brian
#47
Jimbo 88
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 14:39:26 (permalink)
When is DP8 for windows coming???

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#48
carl
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 14:44:26 (permalink)
Jimbo 88


When is DP8 for windows coming???

Should be soon. I hope they'll eventually add a demo version. I'd at least like to try it out.


#49
AT
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 15:22:02 (permalink)
I'm as upset about the "face(s)" of Cakewalk leaving as the next guy - or gal.  But that hardly means Cakewalk and SONAR are dead in the water like Osama, and they are more alive than GM.  I think people are jumping to conclusions.

Roland paid good money for Cakewalk.  It was, and is, one of the premiere DAWs.  What else is on that list?  ProTools, Cubase and Cakewalk.  DP and Logic are fighting over the slice of the mac pie w/ ProTools.  For the PC, there is only Reaper for a full fledged recording environment, and it has made inroads because it is cheap and fairly no-frills.  The same kind of people as Fruity Loops.  There is Live and Reason, which are niche players.  So, Cakewalk by Roland ain't going anywhere.

So Roland pays good money and the economy tanks.  Less money for everything, including music software.  Then Cake releases X1, which is a new interface for their software.  I liked it, but it was confusing.  Cleaner, but nothing was where it was in earlier versions of SONAR, which slowed work on it until I learned it.  That and a lot of shortcuts.  Then there were whole new methodolgies involved.  Appologies to FBB, but I never got screensets.  I knew in theory what I could do, but I never embraced them and am still only slowly learning to incorporate them.  Usually when I'm working, I want to get a project finished, not practise learning how to use a completely new feature since the old methods still work.

X1 comes out to good press releases, although it is noted X1 has more than its fair share of bugs.  But more importantly, it drives away some long time customers w/ its newfangled methods.  And new customers, reading the big piles of stinking complaints on the forums and not doing due diligence checking other software forums and not having a lot of cash to spend, don't jump on the X1 bandwagon like Cake hoped w/ their redesign.  X2 is well received, but a lot of Cake people leave, and some not on their own.  There have been PR and tech support people leaving, in case you didn't know.  A lot of the old crew.  Welcome to corporate reality.  It sucks.  But as far as I can tell, most of the coders remain. 

But you don't toss out brand name recoginition.  Roland is most likely reconfiguring Cakewalk, either down (or "right" in corporate speak) -sizing or/or bringing in new people they think will help (us users and their bottom line).  They aren't throwing the baby out w/ the bathwater.

I've met Seth at some of the promo events here in Texas.  I never met Brandon but had emails w/ him.  And emailed w/ some of the tech people who've left.  they were all good people I'd share a sonic foxhole w/.  Also the Cake channel "how to" videos w/ Seth and Brandon were as good as the Groove videos, which are pricey. (Hint hint, Roland).

But there is no reason to think SONAR won't be upgraded or that the sky if falling.  I expect X2B will fix a few bugs, add a few features which introduce new bugs and (hopefully!) roland will leverage some of their brand into the Prochannel and synths.  Same as it ever was.

@

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#50
donbelisle
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 15:24:52 (permalink)
Even as a "long" time cakewalk user, DP8 is now on my radar.
As soon as the Windows release is ready,
I will add it to my tool sets.
I will wait and see what happens with Sonar X evolutions
before I spend more.

Don Belisle
#51
Beepster
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 15:36:21 (permalink)
  @AT... The hyperbole around here has really been getting to me lately. It shouldn't but it does. I'd like you to know I think you are one of the good ones and I appreciate all the help you've given me and your contributions to this forum in general. Keep up the good work. Cheers. 
#52
John
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 15:41:34 (permalink)
AT's post is a good one and I think very accurate and very well received by me.

Beep did you get my PM? 

Best
John
#53
Beepster
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 15:49:10 (permalink)
I did, John. Sorry I haven't replied yet. Just watching some g3 vids right now while my brain is still working. We good, man. ;-)
#54
brconflict
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 16:03:54 (permalink)
AT is absolutely right, but I've been through many of these types of situations. They aren't typically decided on by truly strategic people. These decisions are typically based on bean-counting consultant-driven decisions that have little to no knowledge of the company history or true vision. Apple ditched Steve jobs in the late 80's. I'm sure it was a good decision at the time, and yes, this is a poor example, but sometimes you have to look ahead beyond this year. Most corporations don't really do this.

**Exponential expense results in logarithmic return.**

Brian
#55
Bub
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 16:16:49 (permalink)
AT

It was, and is, one of the premiere DAWs.  What else is on that list?  ProTools, Cubase and Cakewalk.
ProTools is the only 'Premiere' DAW. Everyone else is fighting for a slice of that pie. I wouldn't put Cubase, Cakewalk, Reaper, or anyone in the same caliber as ProTools. I'm not defending ProTools by any means, but it is what it is.
For the PC, there is only Reaper for a full fledged recording environment, and it has made inroads because it is cheap and fairly no-frills.  The same kind of people as Fruity Loops.  There is Live and Reason, which are niche players.  So, Cakewalk by Roland ain't going anywhere.
It's $225 dollars for a Commercial Use license for Reaper. I wouldn't call that cheap. And it's certainly not a 'no-frills' solution. There's a lot of plug-in's that come with Reaper, it's rock solid, you can run it natively on Mac, and it just works. You can even run it from a Thumb Drive. There's a robust community of users, there's a whole community that does Themes. We have Panup who had to hack Sonar to do what he does. Thanks Panup btw.
So Roland pays good money and the economy tanks.  Less money for everything, including music software.  Then Cake releases X1, which is a new interface for their software.  I liked it, but it was confusing.  Cleaner, but nothing was where it was in earlier versions of SONAR, which slowed work on it until I learned it.  That and a lot of shortcuts.  Then there were whole new methodolgies involved.  Appologies to FBB, but I never got screensets.  I knew in theory what I could do, but I never embraced them and am still only slowly learning to incorporate them.  Usually when I'm working, I want to get a project finished, not practise learning how to use a completely new feature since the old methods still work.

X1 comes out to good press releases, although it is noted X1 has more than its fair share of bugs.  But more importantly, it drives away some long time customers w/ its newfangled methods.
What drove away customers was more the bugs X1 was released with from what I recall, especially with the Pro Channel, which still hasn't been fully resolved.
And new customers, reading the big piles of stinking complaints on the forums and not doing due diligence checking other software forums and not having a lot of cash to spend, don't jump on the X1 bandwagon like Cake hoped w/ their redesign.
This is the kind of statement that starts bad threads rolling. The "big piles of stinking complaints" were legitimate. X1 was released with massive amounts of bugs. Bugs, which I recently discovered, were not in the pre-releases sent to reviewers. It seems that the reviews were actually pretty accurate, which amazes me. Why would Cakewalk release working versions of software to reviewers, but not to their paying customers? That reeks of foul. That reeks of keeping people in the upgrade cycle to me in my opinion.
X2 is well received, but a lot of Cake people leave, and some not on their own.  There have been PR and tech support people leaving, in case you didn't know.  A lot of the old crew.  Welcome to corporate reality.  It sucks.  But as far as I can tell, most of the coders remain.
X2 had fewer problems and I agree there was not as much turmoil as X1's release, but I certainly wouldn't give the impression it was well received. I think it would be more accurate to say it was received better than X1, but X2 certainly has it's share of problems. For example, Take Lanes are extremely buggy, just like the Pro Channel was when it was released.
@
I'm not going to engage in a back and forth and let this snowball out of control. It's my opinion, which I believe to be more 'middle of the road' and accurate.

Thanks,

Bub

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
#56
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 16:24:36 (permalink)
Bub


AT

It was, and is, one of the premiere DAWs.  What else is on that list?  ProTools, Cubase and Cakewalk.
ProTools is the only 'Premiere' DAW. Everyone else is fighting for a slice of that pie. I wouldn't put Cubase, Cakewalk, Reaper, or anyone in the same caliber as ProTools. I'm not defending ProTools by any means, but it is what it is.
For the PC, there is only Reaper for a full fledged recording environment, and it has made inroads because it is cheap and fairly no-frills.  The same kind of people as Fruity Loops.  There is Live and Reason, which are niche players.  So, Cakewalk by Roland ain't going anywhere.
It's $225 dollars for a Commercial Use license for Reaper. I wouldn't call that cheap. And it's certainly not a 'no-frills' solution. There's a lot of plug-in's that come with Reaper, it's rock solid, you can run it natively on Mac, and it just works. You can even run it from a Thumb Drive. There's a robust community of users, there's a whole community that does Themes. We have Panup who had to hack Sonar to do what he does. Thanks Panup btw.
So Roland pays good money and the economy tanks.  Less money for everything, including music software.  Then Cake releases X1, which is a new interface for their software.  I liked it, but it was confusing.  Cleaner, but nothing was where it was in earlier versions of SONAR, which slowed work on it until I learned it.  That and a lot of shortcuts.  Then there were whole new methodolgies involved.  Appologies to FBB, but I never got screensets.  I knew in theory what I could do, but I never embraced them and am still only slowly learning to incorporate them.  Usually when I'm working, I want to get a project finished, not practise learning how to use a completely new feature since the old methods still work.

X1 comes out to good press releases, although it is noted X1 has more than its fair share of bugs.  But more importantly, it drives away some long time customers w/ its newfangled methods.
What drove away customers was more the bugs X1 was released with from what I recall, especially with the Pro Channel, which still hasn't been fully resolved.
And new customers, reading the big piles of stinking complaints on the forums and not doing due diligence checking other software forums and not having a lot of cash to spend, don't jump on the X1 bandwagon like Cake hoped w/ their redesign.
This is the kind of statement that starts bad threads rolling. The "big piles of stinking complaints" were legitimate. X1 was released with massive amounts of bugs. Bugs, which I recently discovered, were not in the pre-releases sent to reviewers. It seems that the reviews were actually pretty accurate, which amazes me. Why would Cakewalk release working versions of software to reviewers, but not to their paying customers? That reeks of foul. That reeks of keeping people in the upgrade cycle to me in my opinion.
X2 is well received, but a lot of Cake people leave, and some not on their own.  There have been PR and tech support people leaving, in case you didn't know.  A lot of the old crew.  Welcome to corporate reality.  It sucks.  But as far as I can tell, most of the coders remain.
X2 had fewer problems and I agree there was not as much turmoil as X1's release, but I certainly wouldn't give the impression it was well received. I think it would be more accurate to say it was received better than X1, but X2 certainly has it's share of problems. For example, Take Lanes are extremely buggy, just like the Pro Channel was when it was released.
@
I'm not going to engage in a back and forth and let this snowball out of control. It's my opinion, which I believe to be more 'middle of the road' and accurate.

Thanks,

Bub
? Bub?
 
I don't know what planet you are living on but if it is something that really sucks bigtime and outdate it is Pro Tools!
Is that why all pro ditch pro tools?
  
 
Reaper? Please... allmost second from that list "black list"
 

post edited by Freddie H - 2013/02/19 16:31:18


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#57
backwoods
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 16:27:54 (permalink)
I'm going to have a good look at the next version of Sonar but it's not going to be a day one purchase this time.

I own Nuendo but hate it so am going to sell that and maybe audition DP and Samplitude and compare them to the new Sonar.
#58
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 16:33:57 (permalink)
backwoods


I'm going to have a good look at the next version of Sonar but it's not going to be a day one purchase this time.

I own Nuendo but hate it so am going to sell that and maybe audition DP and Samplitude and compare them to the new Sonar.


I have used Samplitude too. Many cool features like revolver tracks etc but be aware DAW controller support is not very good. SSL Nucleus doesn't work for example nor SSL Matrix, Duality etc..


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#59
backwoods
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 16:35:04 (permalink)
I don't own a quarter million dollar SSL desk fortunately :)
#60
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