swamptooth
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enable midi out soft synth confusion (now with video comparison to studio one_
so I thought this was maybe a problem with the cthulhu vst itself, but it looks like it's not... insert 2 instances of cthulhu in sonar, enable midi output on both. insert an instance of dimension with a midi track set to receive midi out from instance one of cthulhu. insert rapture receiving midi out from cthulhu 2. enable midi echo on dp and rap midi tracks. arm both for recording. record. dp and rap pick up input from both instances of cthulhu simultaneously. same thing happens with midi out from reaktor and kontakt. verified this is not a vst problem by following the same steps and routing using studio one and it works perfectly. attempted fix: make a copy of the cthulhu vst and give it a new name and insert that as instance 2 in sonar. still no joy. disable either instance's midi out capability and they record fine one track at a time in sonar... happens in x1 as well... so, I guess my question is - does anybody know of a way to get two instances of a soft synth sending midi output working in sonar??? any help appreciated!
post edited by swamptooth - 2013/03/24 00:07:47
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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slartabartfast
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/23 17:47:07
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Not familiar with cthulu, but if you are sending midi out on omni ie to all midi channels from the softsynth, I would expect the outputs to be merged ie anything receiving on omni would receive and respond to both outputs. If you can send midi out from the softsynth on a single channel and set up the receiving synth to read just that channel, you might get it to work.
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/23 21:40:13
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they're going out on different channels and set to be received discretely by each midi track. i tried reaktor in studio one with both instances sending out on channel one and each track received exactly what it was supposed to. :(
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/24 00:08:14
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Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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bvideo
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/24 11:08:00
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There is some history of misrouting midi from VST output. Some posts here and here have some discussion of it. I have not examined your video, so I don't know if it's a match. Cakewalk fixed a bug they called "midi crosstalk" which involved the input from external controllers, but apparently did not fix the VST midi output problem (post here).
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/24 12:40:43
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Thanks bvideo. I must say it's comforting waking up in the morning knowing I'm not alone in my suffering.  Those were lively lively discussions! I hope this can be fixed because this is a almost a show-stopper for me - not just in sound design but in my development projects. The only saving grace is that it's actually writing the correct controller numbers and midi channels (I'll have to do more work with midi notes because I'm only doing cc automation at this point) so I can work around it with midi filters and such, but still... It's really too bad.... and I'm left to wonder now if this is why beatscape is no longer included in sonar (aside from beatscape's own long list of bugs). AFAIK, beatscape was/is the only CW synth that sent midi output... maybe I'm wrong. I'm also left to wonder if since CW apparently fixed the multiple vst midi output crashing sonar bug (this hasn't killed X2 for me) if they think they fully resolved the problem. Think I'll drop SilkTone a line to see if he is still around or how Studio One is working out for him... Thanks for the references.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/24 12:53:47
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And it was a bit disappointing to see Zyler's response at the end of http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2807089&mpage=1#2807418 "At this point, I think the thread has inarguably been solved: "MIDI Cross Talk fixed?" If by MIDI Crosstalk you mean the ability to record from multiple hardware devices, yes. If you mean the bug causing a crash with multiple VSTs sending MIDI out - no, but it will be. I sincerely hope this helps. " which came across as a bit dismissive and passive-aggressive, when the thread began by asking "Are multiple instances of Cantanya and Thesys possible now? " -- to me it was obvious that the thread had nothing to do with midi hardware. really too bad, when this is the attitude of some people towards those keeping them employed. just my 2c.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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rabeach
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/24 15:51:18
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"You've thus far managed to elicit a response from Product Management, Product Marketing, and the CTO of the company - all of whom have acknowledged your issue and the fact that it must be fixed"
life on earth is beautiful.... :-) four years since the bug report and counting...
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/24 16:26:39
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i left earth a long time ago and landed on the planet forumstall-x... where all shall be acknowledged but never appeased.  unfortunately for people using midi in creatively challenging ways that may be outside of the norm and developers these are the kind of glaring *really - this doesn't work???* issues that makes the whole product start to look amateurish after a while. very pretty but very amateurish. i really hate saying that because it is so pretty after all...
post edited by swamptooth - 2013/03/24 16:38:44
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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robert_e_bone
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 09:11:17
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Hey, swamptooth, what channels show up in the events?
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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stoutlyric
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 12:06:23
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Having two different vst's sending midi out has never worked in Sonar.
I was trying this with LFO Tool made be the same company that does cthulu and as soon as you enabled the second vst midi out it would crash sonar. Have not tested the latest X2a patch on this one yet.
I remember a thread where a user was complainging about this back in Sonar 7.
Big win if it could get resolved!
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stoutlyric
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 12:10:04
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Also to get around the limited ability of sonar routing you could use a third party tool like Bidule. You can run it as a vst and get very complex with the routing and not be tied down by Sonar.
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 14:32:01
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hey bob - they sho up on the correct channels - sonar isnt discriminating the input source though. thats the catch. same results with kontakt same with beatscape same with everything. thanks stout - im already using loopmidi to control automation lanes based on the data. ptoblem is ive got a few development projects going on so i cannot use sonar as a reliable daw to test on if this functionality is impaired. pretty much stuck with cubase and studio one. they have full vst3 support anyway. its just gonna have to suck to label sonar as incompatible with the projects if oury funding options come through at the end of the year
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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robert_e_bone
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 17:42:08
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Sorry, swamptooth, I am all out of ideas on this one.
Can you break stuff that's less tricky in the future? :)
I truly do hope some of this stuff gets resolved for you.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 20:54:00
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bob, as near as i can tell the first problem report for this was submitted nigh 5 years ago. everyone, including noel has acknowledged personally in the linked threads. it's just a damned shame. it's fine, though, because cakewalk and everything else i buy are deductible. ;D
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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robert_e_bone
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 21:47:11
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@swamptooth Good to hear your reported it. Sorry to see that they have not in such a long time devoted resources to addressing it.
Hopefully enough things do allow you to produce in Sonar to still make it worth your keeping it.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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swamptooth
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 22:43:29
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@bob -
yeah there are aspects of sonar that i absolutely love, and i'll continue to use it. there is a point at which, for me anyway, the decision becomes more about business interests than brand loyalty. i really admire you bob, because i've seen you walk through newbies and advanced users as well in a kind, non-judgemental manner. you've been reasoned and measured and unfailingly helpful to many people on this forum. i've learned a lot not only from your posts - but also your questions. i've learned a lot from you here... sometimes just reading and lurking. your consistency is something to be admired.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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robert_e_bone
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/03/27 23:26:45
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Thanks - music is like breathing to me - cannot do without it, and when I see folks struggling, I am really motivated to try to help. I think this Cakewalk community is a collectively powerful entity, and the more we all help each other, the better we individually can become.
I know some stuff in some area, and have weaknesses in others, and this is true for us all here - I learn every day for the things I am weak in, and others learn from some of the stuff I have figured out over time as well. The key is to try to all continue to pull together to resolve as many problems for as many people as possible. That's an integral part of being a 'team', and as a former basketball player, I KNOW the power of teamwork.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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auto_da_fe
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Re:enable midi out soft synth confusion
2013/06/27 20:30:46
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Missed this thread originally or I would have jumped in....I think I got on the original discussion at 8.5.
The youtube video is the smoking gun! Great job!!
Just got 64 bit Catanya and it is the same thing you are all seeing 100%.
Except when I use 2 simultaneous instances of Catanya it totally crashes Sonar. Crashes so hard you have to restart the PC to get the stuck audio to stop. Been doing this since 8.5 too. Although I will say in the past it would at least play for a little while, as long as you did not touch a key or the mouse. Now just enabling midi out on the second instance of catanya crashes sonar.
I also have experimented with another DAW (rhymes with creeper) and it works great.
I love Sonar X2 in all other ways, but this is very frustrating as I use a lot of Vsti's now and you have to be so careful. At one time Sonar was the chosen DAW for midi, but maybe not so much anymore ?
JR
HP DV6T - 2670QM, 8 GB RAM, Sonar Platypus, Octa Capture, BFD2 & Jamstix3, Komplete 10 and Komplete Kontrol Win 10 64 SLS PS8R Monitors and KRK Ergo https://soundcloud.com/airportface
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