HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!!

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carlosagm79
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2013/04/04 05:58:19 (permalink)

HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!!

Windows 8, multitouch and music production, Sonar ect ect ect...

part 2 & 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4G4jIpdTuhY#t=64s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PlzCYF66G0
#1

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    John
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 06:34:52 (permalink)
    Very well done. Its the way I have thought of touch. I see it as a huge advance to computing overall and with Sonar a truly neat way to interact with the program.

     

    Best
    John
    #2
    Chregg
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 08:25:51 (permalink)
    yeah looks good, think ill be utilizing touch screen at some point
    #3
    chuckebaby
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 08:40:12 (permalink)
    awesome, touch is the future.
    I think the mouse will always be an option but touch is here to stay.
    #4
    DigitalBoston
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 08:44:24 (permalink)
    its alot of work but looks cool
    #5
    mike_mccue
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 08:58:06 (permalink)


    I liked it at 1:45 where he has to poke at the screen 3 times to get the little thingy on the right to actually move. That seems very intuitive... if it doesn't move the first time poke at it a bunch and see what happens


    Desperately poking at a greasy screen seems counter to the ideal of making music while connecting with your inner muse.

    This technology is going to to make owning an acoustic guitar seem like a wonderful luxury.



    best regards,
    mike

    I enjoy using a StudioCat DAW.
    #6
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 09:36:46 (permalink)

    Desperately poking at a greasy screen seems counter to the ideal of making music while connecting with your inner muse.



    Multi-touch is not a replacement for a mouse/keyboard...
    But it is intuitive (for some things like zooming/scrolling)... especially after using a smart phone for a good while.

    FWIW, just like with smart phones, if your finger is a bit sweaty (perspiration), it can affect the performance of the touch-screen.

    I've got the same 27" Planar monitor here... and it works pretty well.



    Couple of important things with multi-touch:
    • You have to run Win8
    • X2 is the only app that currently supports multi-touch
    • If you use multiple monitors, the touch monitor has to be the main (1st) display

    post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2013/04/04 11:38:29

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    #7
    mmorgan
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 10:00:36 (permalink)
    carlosagm79: Thanks for posting that. 

    Very nice demo...shows the good and the bad (which a demo should). Me thinks that someday, maybe now, the good will far outweigh the bad.

    Very soon I'll have a Win 8 machine and while I don't think it will be my primary DAW I will definitely be exploring 'touch' technology. I have no doubt that the APIs for implementing touch will be gaining refinement and functionality over the next few years...really looking forwards to the future. 

    Regards,


    Mike

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    #8
    John T
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 10:24:45 (permalink)
    Yeah, that's about where I am. I don't think it's that appealing right now, but I'm interested to see what happens in the next couple of generations of the technology.

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    #9
    chefmike8888
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 10:34:59 (permalink)
    Jim Roseberry



    Desperately poking at a greasy screen seems counter to the ideal of making music while connecting with your inner muse.



    Multi-touch is not a replacement for a mouse/keyboard...
    But it is intuitive (for some things like zooming/scrolling... especially after using a smart phone for a good while.

    FWIW, just like with smart phones, if your finger is a bit sweaty (perspiration), it can affect the performance of the touch-screen.

    I've got the same 27" Planar monitor here... and it works pretty well.



    Couple of important things with multi-touch:
    • You have to run Win8
    • X2 is the only app that currently supports multi-touch
    • If you use multiple monitors, the touch monitor has to be the main (1st) display

    I've been wondering about that.
    What if both monitors are touch screens?
    I like my Console View on my second monitor. Do multiple touch screens work or can you only use one at this time?


    Mike



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    #10
    zapotec
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 11:32:58 (permalink)
    I have OCD and worry about all those smudges on the screen...
    Zap!

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    #11
    LpMike75
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 11:45:08 (permalink)
    I use touch screens at work.  Based on my experience, touch screens are rarely preferable to the keyboard and mouse.  It is usually slower as well.   After reaching up repeatedly, it is uncomfortable on your shoulders.  As mentioned above, there it always the sweaty/wet finger problem.  Just took a sip from your ice cold water bottle?  yep, gotta dry off the hand before the touch screen will work. 

    Hand held phones work well with touch screens because you can place them at a comfortable height and adjust on the fly, with a monitor that is going to be an issue.  Monitor placement will be a huge consideration.

    The place where I think touch screen DAW's would be handy is, when you are tracking alone from the "live" room and cannot reach the console, you can set up a remote touch screen to control the record, stop, undo etc functions.  As far as mixing, editing or doing any in depth and lengthy work in a DAW, I would not want touch.
    #12
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 11:46:21 (permalink)
    I've been wondering about that. What if both monitors are touch screens? I like my Console View on my second monitor. Do multiple touch screens work or can you only use one at this time?



    Hi Mike,


    If you make the touch monitor the secondary display, the touch control gestures will affect the primary monitor's display.
    Not what you want...    


    At this time, you can (effectively) only have one touch monitor... and it has to be configured as the primary display.


    I have a studio desk with upper/lower levels... using two 27" monitors (vertically).
    The conventional monitor is on the top shelf.
    The multi-touch monitor is on the lower shelf.
    The Planar monitor can be setup almost flat (like a virtual console display)... or at any desired angle (continuously variable).
    Works pretty well...

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    #13
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 11:52:19 (permalink)
    After reaching up repeatedly, it is uncomfortable on your shoulders. 



    Ergonomics are extremely important.
    I wouldn't want to use touch as a complete replacement for mouse/keyboard... but it is nice (with one of the better multi-touch units).
    Touch support (hardware and software) will improve over time.

    @ Zap:
    I keep a container of monitor wipes on the studio desk.    


    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    #14
    AT
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 17:06:39 (permalink)
    Fairly impressive.  It looks like it would fit right into work flow, but one does need to be concerned about tactile feedback.  I'm not sure how long it would take to get used to virtual faders and having to keep my eyes on them rather than just touching.  Still, once the price of flat tilt touchscreens come down, I'm in w/ my dirty little fingers.

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    #15
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 17:32:32 (permalink)
    Jim Roseberry



    Desperately poking at a greasy screen seems counter to the ideal of making music while connecting with your inner muse.



    Multi-touch is not a replacement for a mouse/keyboard...
    But it is intuitive (for some things like zooming/scrolling)... especially after using a smart phone for a good while.

    FWIW, just like with smart phones, if your finger is a bit sweaty (perspiration), it can affect the performance of the touch-screen.

    I've got the same 27" Planar monitor here... and it works pretty well. 



    It's funny. I have the odd bit of trouble with touch screens because my fingers are naturally too dry, not the other way round.

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    #16
    FreeFlyBertl
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 17:54:35 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey


    Jim Roseberry



    Desperately poking at a greasy screen seems counter to the ideal of making music while connecting with your inner muse.



    Multi-touch is not a replacement for a mouse/keyboard...
    But it is intuitive (for some things like zooming/scrolling)... especially after using a smart phone for a good while.

    FWIW, just like with smart phones, if your finger is a bit sweaty (perspiration), it can affect the performance of the touch-screen.

    I've got the same 27" Planar monitor here... and it works pretty well. 



    It's funny. I have the odd bit of trouble with touch screens because my fingers are naturally too dry, not the other way round.

    the moisture that forms on a real cold bottle of beer would be the obvious solution that, but I know that's hard to get in the UK ;-)

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    #17
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 18:34:40 (permalink)
    I love a really cold beer!

    I'm more of a lager drinker than beer, so when I go drinking (rarely) ice cold fingers are the norm

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    #18
    bitSync
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 22:35:14 (permalink)
    No disrespect to those who are attracted to touchscreen DAW control, but I'd much prefer tactile faders, knobs and switches to do the job.  I don't have to keep my eye glued to the control surface to accomplish what I want to.  Maybe I'm too old school or too set in my ways, but I'd prefer to touch the controls barely looking at them, get my feedback from feel, and glance at the big monitor on the wall only if I need to.
     
    Everybody else psyched about touchscreen, more power to you!  I'll admit there is a serious cool factor for sure.

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    #19
    yorolpal
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/04 23:23:02 (permalink)
    Nope...I did not have already seen this.

    But thanks for have bringing it to my attention.

    Just joshin, ol pal:-)


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    #20
    jamesg1213
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 03:34:28 (permalink)
    It looks awkward to me. When he was moving the faders he was having to move his fingers a long way past them, over other controls, even down to the virtual keys.



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    #21
    KenB123
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 08:50:26 (permalink)
    Very cool. He did a nice job.  He made the point up front about lying your touch monitor in a more horizontal position. Just like getting back to the older days with the physical mixing boards.
     
    I have the question about if I were to buy a laptop now or in the near future, would I want one that had touchscreen capabilities? It is worth the extra cost? This video answered some of these questions. I have seen one system advertised where the screen of the laptop is movable or even extractable, so you could actually lie it horizontally. Lot of things to consider. I don't see this touchscreen stuff going away. 
     
    Interesting that Sonar X2 was the most advanced (at the moment) for touch-screen functionality. But even he said they may need to create an alternative specialized touch-screen version. As he called it, more "Fischer-Price". Chunky and obvious control buttons. 
     
    Funny that Sonar Automation finger mapping isn't supported, but this same functionality works fine with touch in Cubase 7 which isn't yet touted as being touch enabled.

    Velcro - what a rip off!

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    #22
    gswitz
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 18:35:23 (permalink)
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware/does-windows-7-support-dual-touchscreen-monitors/e86ac4fa-5321-45c1-a1d8-0ca95fdcfc17?auth=1

    it looks like MS does support multiple touch monitors. I think it may be like the old DRIVERS DRIVERS DRIVERS thing. :-)

    Some touch monitors are better designed for Win 8 Integration. But it looks like M$ has a plan.

    BTW, I've ordered mine.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824016174

    G

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    #23
    carlosagm79
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 22:51:03 (permalink)
    Jim Roseberry



    Desperately poking at a greasy screen seems counter to the ideal of making music while connecting with your inner muse.



    Multi-touch is not a replacement for a mouse/keyboard...
    But it is intuitive (for some things like zooming/scrolling)... especially after using a smart phone for a good while.

    FWIW, just like with smart phones, if your finger is a bit sweaty (perspiration), it can affect the performance of the touch-screen.

    I've got the same 27" Planar monitor here... and it works pretty well.



    Couple of important things with multi-touch:
    • You have to run Win8
    • X2 is the only app that currently supports multi-touch
    • If you use multiple monitors, the touch monitor has to be the main (1st) display

    I found that monitors like Planar are multitouch and works with Windows 7, Im thinking in getting one of those instead a expensive controlsurface, just to manage the console( or mixer view) and transport controls, that is what those devices traditioanlly do...and keep a front monitor and keyboard/mouse for everithing else...
    http://www.amazon.com/PX2230MW-Touchscreen-LCD-Monitor-Optical/dp/B003B47BZO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1365216362&sr=8-3&keywords=touch+screen+monitor


    #24
    carlosagm79
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 22:53:49 (permalink)



    I found that monitors like Planar are multitouch and works with Windows 7, Im thinking in getting one of those instead a expensive controlsurface, just to manage the console( or mixer view) and transport controls, that is what those devices traditioanlly do...and keep a front monitor and keyboard/mouse for everithing else...
    http://www.amazon.com/PX2230MW-Touchscreen-LCD-Monitor-Optical/dp/B003B47BZO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1365216362&sr=8-3&keywords=touch+screen+monitor


    #25
    chefmike8888
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 23:29:50 (permalink)
    Thanks Jim.

    BitSync, I agree. I like to physically feel how far a fader or pot has moved.
    I'm not sure sliding my fingers on a screen would be the same.
    I'm sure that you will be able to make the same adjustments but I remember running sound for bands and just closing my eyes and making adjustments with my ears like riding faders for guitar solos between 2 players and things like that. 
    Just a little bump here, a smidge of pan there. There is something gratifying about feeling the board.

    That said, using a mouse is about as detached as you can get from a fader and that seems to work fine for just about all of us.
    A touchscreen will only be a step up because you'll be able to control numerous things simultaneously as opposed to one mouse pointer on one knob or fader.
      
    There is no doubt that touchscreen is here to stay. I'm definitely ok with that and knowing me I'll jump right in too.
    It's still a little too fresh for my liking but I'm looking forward to where this goes as the idea is fine tuned and honed.
    I'd love to have 2 touchscreens layed out like a mixing console and 2 more monitors set vertical. One for the track view and one for plugs, PRV and such. 

    Mike



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    #26
    chefmike8888
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 23:39:04 (permalink)
    Planar are multitouch and works with Windows 7
    carlosagm79
    I just checked the link you last posted.
    It says "Windows 7 compatible ONLY".

    I wonder if they mean it wont work with XP or Vista but will work with Windows 7 and newer.
    I'd assume it works with Windows 8 too but it does lead me to believe it's for W7 only.

    Just something to look into if your plan is to purchase one.

    Mike

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    #27
    soens
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/05 23:49:03 (permalink)
    Not a fan of touch screens BUT I see where it makes playing a virtual synth like a real synth since multiple controllers can be operated simultanously.
     
    Now lets see if they can add pressure channeling.
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    #28
    gswitz
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/06 08:21:59 (permalink)
    Cancelled my order for the Planar and ordered...

    Dell S2340T 23" Multi-Touch Monitor

    I plan to use this as a family toy, sharing it around the various house computers and family members. Some more expensive screens can work alone running Android on the home wifi to watch movies and browse the web (not connected to any house computer). You can then wire them up to a PC when you want. 

    Also, some touch screens aren't great in the corners, and if you use Windows 8, you know that there are important things in the corners. So, to have generic fun in Windows 8, you want the slide from the right, top and left edges of the screen to work smoothly so you can open and close apps dexterously.

    I'm not sure how much this matters from a Sonar point of view. I suppose it would be important to be able to open and close the inspector and the browser (both at the edges of the screen) with a touch. To a large degree, you could have a lot of Sonar Touch fun without using the edges much.

    If you can get along without the edges though, the price of touch screens comes down a couple of hundred dollars. From what I read of the Planar Monitors from people who used them with Win 8, they do work but they caused a lot of general frustration for people who didn't have a specific app they wanted touch for.
     
    I'm guessing the bakers have more breadth of experience than any of us. Bakers? Are you working with multiple touch monitors? Does it work well? What are your lessons learned with monitor choice?
    post edited by gswitz - 2013/04/06 08:44:12

    StudioCat > Windows 8.1 x64 > RME Quad Mic Pre > RME UCX > DBX 162 SL > Sonar X3e Prod x64 > Dell S2340T 23" Multi-Touch.
    RME TotalMix 2014Working with long projects in SonarUsing an Midi Controller with ACT in Sonar - Insert Send Assistant demo
    Gr20 and Rapture 1 - Gr20 and Rapture 2 - Thanks B Rock
    #29
    soens
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    Re:HEY PEOPLE! did you have already seen this??!!! 2013/04/06 11:47:20 (permalink)
    Only $700 from Dell Direct!
     
    According to Newegg, 24" MTs are $1000+ more than 23" MTs. Another marketing ripoff?
    post edited by soens - 2013/04/06 11:59:00
    #30
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