Sonar 4/FW-1884 Issues...

Hi troops. Well I got my nice new Tascam FW-1884 and am very pleased with being able to get some hands-on control. But I’ve got a few issues with audio recording and midi that are hindering me more than a little. There seem to be plenty of happy 1884 Sonar users here that might be able to help…

1. Audio recording: I’m noticing pretty heavy CPU usage when recording anything into it. I open projects that I’ve happily run with my old Audiophile and CPU at around 20%, with the Tascam it’s at 50%. When I’m recording new guitar tracks in a project of only 8 tracks, usage is sitting at around 60%, occasionally spiking up and cutting out mid-take! It seems the same using WDM and ASIO drivers, although it’s better with WDM. I’ve got latency set at 5.8 ms, and buffer at 256 in both Sonar and 1884 control panels. Is this some issue with the Tascam? Any tips as to how to diagnose where my problem might be?

2. Midi input: I can’t seem to get midi into Sonar from the 1884. I’ve got a basic Roland midi keyboard plugged into midi in port 1 of the Tascam. I’ve set up the midi routing on it – the lights flash to show midi input/output activity on the Tascam. But I can’t get any midi signal into Sonar. The only way to get Sonar receiving midi is to select the midi port on the Tascam as a midi device in Sonar (in addition to ‘1884 control’), but this stops the 1884 communicating Sonar at all. I’ve read all the documentation and nothing explains this. Any ideas???

Specs:
Pentium IV 3gHz
1 GB RAM
2 x SATA 7200rpm HD
FW-1884 (1.41 drivers, 1.21 Sonar sw)
Adaptec Firewire card (TI chipset)
Sonar 4.0.2

Just out of curiosity,

In What order did you complete the install of The FW 1884

Hotfix (if you didn't put ServicePack2 in XP)
Sonar Control Surface Plugin
Tascam Driver and update to 1.40 Driver (track eq controllability for Sonar)

One thing is that you should have the FW-1884 powered up before entering sonar. Some folk have said Power up the FW1884 before booting up.

Check that Your FW 1884 / PCI Firewaire card is not sharing an IRQ

Check that the FW 1884 is Not being used for default Windows sounds

Are your sample rates etc matching in project in sonar and in FW1884 Control Panel?

I have heard some folk who have 3 buffers set at 64 and it works for them. Although i believe they are mainly running audio as opposed to softsynths.

Believe it or not mine is still in it's plastic bag covering on my desk for weeks , with a new baby, some additional studying etc etc i just have not been able to find time to set it up. Hopefully over the next week or so though! It's been very cruel having it sit there but not being able to touch it grrrr.

Do a search on here also just using FW 1884 in "TOPIC" only and there are quite a few bits of advice.

Did you disable your Audiophile 24/96, as i'm intending on doing so, thought about pulling it out, but decided that it may be easier just to leave it in and disable it.

It may just be due to you need to play around with buffers (NB remember to run Wave Profiler if using WDM drivers after each change)

Regarding your midi question, you mentioned that you have midi in, I was under the impression that midi required a midi in and midi out into a keyboard. Although I have my keyboard direct on USB so I can't confirm that i am right here.

Sorry I'm not the greatest of help at the moment with this

S8PE 3.06Ghz, 2GB Ram, XP2 SP2, Mackie H824s, Fw-1884,NT1-A, GT66,Reason4, Live 7,Voxengo Mix & Mast. UAD, Melodyne Stu 3,Drumkat, Sound Forge 8..
and a giant list of other stuff

I've had a 1884 for over a year. The latest driver updates have solved ALL of my issues. It's rock solid, great. Last night played back 16 tracks of audio and it only hit about 15% on the cpu meter. Similar system to yours. Don't know what could be causing your issue.

Re: Midi - If your using MIDI you need to enable the drivers for each I/O you use in the Sonar Midi tab. The FW1884 control is labeled FW!884 Control (clever eh?) is how the FW and Sonar communicate re: the control surface. Enabling midi or not should have no effect on this.

There are so many variables (local on, echo, midi channel, etc) that I'd suggest as a trouble shoot that you set the input channel on Sonar to Midi Omni and record something. If you get data, go to the event window and figure out what's gettting sent/received. If you get nothing, keep fooling around with your keyboard until you get something. It's a pain, but troubleshooting is like that, and once you get stuff set up, save it as a template and never do that experiment again.

TBone

how many inputs and outputs do you have activated/enabled?

When you say latest driver updates, do you mean the very recent beta drivers?

Thanks

Jon.

ORIGINAL: emptybe

1. Audio recording: I’m noticing pretty heavy CPU usage when recording anything into it. I open projects that I’ve happily run with my old Audiophile and CPU at around 20%, with the Tascam it’s at 50%. When I’m recording new guitar tracks in a project of only 8 tracks, usage is sitting at around 60%, occasionally spiking up and cutting out mid-take! It seems the same using WDM and ASIO drivers, although it’s better with WDM. I’ve got latency set at 5.8 ms, and buffer at 256 in both Sonar and 1884 control panels. Is this some issue with the Tascam? Any tips as to how to diagnose where my problem might be?

Are you by chance attempting to slam the latency setting as far to the left as you can get a signal from? Lower latency = higher CPU utilization. Run the FW-1884 at around 10 ms and it will do well for low CPU usage. As far as low-latency monitoring, this is done through hardware on the 1884 so it's actually zero.

Thanks for all the input guys. By way of clarification:
I’m have been on the v 1.41 drivers, just went on to v 1.50 and all seems the same. Yes, the sample rates and settings are all the same across the control panels. I was very careful to do set-up in the right order. [Bermuda, are you sure about SP2, the documentations says you only need SP1…]. I always power up the Tascam before the pc.

But the FW card is sharing an IRQ, I’ll have to play around with that. Still doesn’t quite explain the issues. I’m still stumped about the midi. I’ve played around with it plenty. Tbone, if I enable the midi port in the Sonar midi settings it disables any other comms going from the Tascam. The manual just says about enabling the midi into the Tascam, then says the midi will go into your pc via the Firewire connection. Has anybody got their 1884 using a midi keyboard going into Sonar? Can you confirm your settings?

As for the audio, ustudio, I’ve only for inputs and outputs ½ activated in the quickstart menu (when using WDM). Yes rickgn, using 5.8 ms can be a little taxing. But it’s the only way I can get usable monitoring. My direct monitoring from the unit seems really really quiet. Even with the input channel clipping I can barely hear what I’m playing. The only way I can hear it is to activate the echo input on the channel. Even then 5.8ms is noticeable in terms of trying to record guitar. Yeah, I know this eats CPU but I would have thought running one recording channel with it wouldn’t be enough to cause drop-outs. More to the point, maybe I missing something in direct hardware monitoring? I’ve got everything activated as per the instructions. Anybody doing this can you confirm how you set-up a track to record and monitor directly?

I really want to get this baby working to it’s full potential. Thanks. [sm=rolleyes.gif]

Thanks for all the input guys. By way of clarification:
I’m have been on the v 1.41 drivers, just went on to v 1.50 and all seems the same.

Were did you get those I'm on 1.40

http://www.tascamforums.com/

I'm a little stumped...arrgghh it's still in it's wrapping on my desk grrr.

Just thinking, in sonar dont you have to set up your audio and midi separately ...audio options and midi options...been a while for me. I'm sure when Sonar is initially installed you have to do these both.

I also know you need to select midi in and midi out for the tascam.

Although I can't quite figure out how your midi keyboards driver functions in sonar if it goes through the FW 1884. i.e. does the driver have to be somehow pointed at by the FW 1884, or do you simply selec the keyboard as midi input in Sonars tracks and this automatically goes via the FW-1884 as FW 1884 is set up as default midi device.

Have you tried the Tascam Forums for the FW 1884 to see if anyone has any advice?

Regarding the Hotfix...this was required if you did not have SP 2 on your system at one point, whether this is now included in one of the updated drivers i'm not sure, can't remember. Apparently the 1.50 are Beta drivers.

Also did you install the Sonar Control Surface plug in for the FW 1884?

Certainly the shared IRQ with another device will likely cause you some issues, especially if it is a modem of some kind.


Good luck

Let us know what you do and how you get on. Apparently fr support it is best to call Frontier Design folk. i believe somewhere on this board there is an e-mail for a helpful chap. Try a search on "Frontier:

S8PE 3.06Ghz, 2GB Ram, XP2 SP2, Mackie H824s, Fw-1884,NT1-A, GT66,Reason4, Live 7,Voxengo Mix & Mast. UAD, Melodyne Stu 3,Drumkat, Sound Forge 8..
and a giant list of other stuff

I read in the Sonar 4 manual that if you have midi settings with Sonar as Slave for clock that audio will not sound.

to have both it looks like you need SOnar set as Master midi clock source.

please check out the manual, it's towards the back end of it.

I haven't fully read the Tascam anngle on this.

Also just out of Curiosity re YOur Keyboard, Do you need an instrument definition in Sonar for it to work properly.

i'm kinda clutching at straws here for you.

Let us know how you are getting on

Thanks

S8PE 3.06Ghz, 2GB Ram, XP2 SP2, Mackie H824s, Fw-1884,NT1-A, GT66,Reason4, Live 7,Voxengo Mix & Mast. UAD, Melodyne Stu 3,Drumkat, Sound Forge 8..
and a giant list of other stuff

Hello again. Well I don't seem to be getting much closer to this.

More trouble-shooting on the midi hasn't revealed anything. In answer to questions: Naturally I'm running the sonar plug in. Everything else in the unit is working great - the control surface functions communicate both ways with Sonar, audio playback is fine (other than the CPU issues). Previously all I had to do was define the midi as coming in from the keyboard. Like I said, if I try to do that now (for the midi in port on the 1884 that I have the keyboard plugged into) it disables any other comms to/from the 1884. But according to the documentation I shouldn't have to. As far as I can tell the midi should come via the firewire connection and hence via the '1884 control' midi instrument definition.

More audio recording has got the same issue - I can barely hear what I'm playing unless I feed the signal back out. Rickgn, can you let me know what settings you've got to mean you get good hardware monitoring?

This is starting to drive me bonkers. Not much input from anyone on the Tascam forums, naturally NO response from Tascam tech support. I hear this is a familiar story and that many people got better answers out of Frontier. has anyone got a contact for 1884 support there?

Thanks.

ORIGINAL: emptybe

Hello again. Well I don't seem to be getting much closer to this.

More trouble-shooting on the midi hasn't revealed anything. In answer to questions: Naturally I'm running the sonar plug in. Everything else in the unit is working great - the control surface functions communicate both ways with Sonar, audio playback is fine (other than the CPU issues). Previously all I had to do was define the midi as coming in from the keyboard. Like I said, if I try to do that now (for the midi in port on the 1884 that I have the keyboard plugged into) it disables any other comms to/from the 1884. But according to the documentation I shouldn't have to. As far as I can tell the midi should come via the firewire connection and hence via the '1884 control' midi instrument definition.

More audio recording has got the same issue - I can barely hear what I'm playing unless I feed the signal back out. Rickgn, can you let me know what settings you've got to mean you get good hardware monitoring?

This is starting to drive me bonkers. Not much input from anyone on the Tascam forums, naturally NO response from Tascam tech support. I hear this is a familiar story and that many people got better answers out of Frontier. has anyone got a contact for 1884 support there?

Thanks.

The 1884 control port is used to communicate between the 1884 and the host computer ONLY! If you are attempting to use this for anything else you are going to have problems. I have personally had four keyboards hooked up to the 1884 and had no problems running them all simultaniously.

Harware monitoring is the default. There are no settings. Period. The 1884 is a hardware audio mixer. The firewire interface allows it to interact with the computer.

Steady on rick, we're talking the same language here. Let me pose you a simple question. How do you have all of your keyboards set up under the Sonar? i.e. how are their midi inputs/outputs defined under Sonar's set-up menus?

Gotcha about monitoring, still doesn't really explain why I can barely hear what I'm playing in. But let's not get stuck there.

thanks

There is a section in the manuals
re midi keyboards attaching to the FW 1884 in the set up booklet.... may be worth a revisit for you, just a thought.

Now have my FW 1884 up and running...its a bit brilliant really !
Still using the hotfix and the 1.2 drivers, will have to sort newer drivers out later.

I was messing around and didn't need my mouse hardly at all ...the mouse is becoming an alien already ...YES !

S8PE 3.06Ghz, 2GB Ram, XP2 SP2, Mackie H824s, Fw-1884,NT1-A, GT66,Reason4, Live 7,Voxengo Mix & Mast. UAD, Melodyne Stu 3,Drumkat, Sound Forge 8..
and a giant list of other stuff

Thanks Bermuda. But I followed all the steps to set up the midi keyboard into the 1884. I've got midi signal going into it - the lights for midi in/out flashing on the port, just nothing going in to Sonar. There's nothing anywhere explaining how to set up a midi keyboard in Sonar via the 1884 and as Rick has eloquently expressed, this isn't through the '1884 Control' port.

Still no way of playing my soft synths without disabling the 1884's control surface functions...have I got a faulty unit?

I'm certain when i set mine up there were Control in and Control out plus a whole bunch of other in's and outs for the midi set up....maybe you need to select more than just the Control in and Control out in the midi options in Sonar?

I'm surprised noone here has a keyboard connected through the FW 1884 ? I thought you would get a direct solution to this.

S8PE 3.06Ghz, 2GB Ram, XP2 SP2, Mackie H824s, Fw-1884,NT1-A, GT66,Reason4, Live 7,Voxengo Mix & Mast. UAD, Melodyne Stu 3,Drumkat, Sound Forge 8..
and a giant list of other stuff

ORIGINAL: bermuda

I'm certain when i set mine up there were Control in and Control out plus a whole bunch of other in's and outs for the midi set up....maybe you need to select more than just the Control in and Control out in the midi options in Sonar?

I'm surprised noone here has a keyboard connected through the FW 1884 ? I thought you would get a direct solution to this.

No problem here, you just have open the midi ins and outs in midi devices (find it under options) in Cakewalk (FW port1 , FW port2, the real fysical ins and midi outs etc but not FW-VP) as Bermuda suggest. Insert a midi track in Sonar, find the midi input, there you can find the FW port1 etc again. Push keyboard key, when midi out is connected to e.g. FW-port1 in, and you you see the midi indicator lighted in Sonar right corner. As soon as you have record the midi data remember to choose midi out port e.g. FW port1 which is connected to an instrument for playback and select no midi input.

And off you go

My music: http://www.midimine.net/documents/discography.html
Sonar, Reason, Live, Project5,Fruityloops /Intel Q9550 / asus P5W64 /FW-1884/Oxygen 8 V2/ PCR-800/ Novation Zero

Thanks guys but that's exactly what I've been doing. In Midi devices I select '1884 Midi port 1' in (in addition of course to '1884 Control') I get midi coming in and can play my sythns etc, but doing that stops the all the control surface functions working. i.e. none of the transport buttons, faders etc send anything to Sonar. It seems like the midi port 1 in and control port can't function simultaneously. This shouldn't be happening. Which is why I'm wondering whether I've got it set up wrong or if there's actually something wrong with my 1884.

Mididreamer, can you confirm that you have both the midi port1 and 1884 control midi ins selected under midi devices and that everything is working OK?

ORIGINAL: emptybe

Mididreamer, can you confirm that you have both the midi port1 and 1884 control midi ins selected under midi devices and that everything is working OK?

Very strange, it is exactly as you described. Both are selected and working fine

My music: http://www.midimine.net/documents/discography.html
Sonar, Reason, Live, Project5,Fruityloops /Intel Q9550 / asus P5W64 /FW-1884/Oxygen 8 V2/ PCR-800/ Novation Zero

ORIGINAL: emptybe

Thanks guys but that's exactly what I've been doing. In Midi devices I select '1884 Midi port 1' in (in addition of course to '1884 Control') I get midi coming in and can play my sythns etc, but doing that stops the all the control surface functions working. i.e. none of the transport buttons, faders etc send anything to Sonar. It seems like the midi port 1 in and control port can't function simultaneously. This shouldn't be happening. Which is why I'm wondering whether I've got it set up wrong or if there's actually something wrong with my 1884.

Check if the controlsurface doesn't jump from FW-control to e.g. FW port1 sometimes when you switch between Native mode and MAckie control mode or the others it occasionaly shifts the control surface mdi ins and outs
Also look if the "route" is set correct!

Good luck

My music: http://www.midimine.net/documents/discography.html
Sonar, Reason, Live, Project5,Fruityloops /Intel Q9550 / asus P5W64 /FW-1884/Oxygen 8 V2/ PCR-800/ Novation Zero

Well, if anyone is interested things seem to have ironed out - largely.

I finally started getting midi in via a number of things: new FW cable, switched PCI slots etc and worked out I have to repeat the process of selecting the 1884 control and 1884 midi port twice each time I start Sonar. Either way one or all of which combined seemed to get things working. Although I'm getting more frequent crashes when playing or editing midi. This'll do for now, at least I can work!

The monitoring was finally sorted when I totally re-did the mon mix channel settings. The default setting on my unit was to only hear what was coming out of the PC rather than anything coming in from the channels . So now I can hear what I'm playing and bump the latency up a little and conserve resources.

A happy ending of sorts. I'm still not entirely convinced by this unit. It's still using more resources to do the same job (at this stage) as my old audiophile. And Tascam's idea of 'support' has me worried if anything more serious went wrong...but nothing comes near it for price/features I guess.

Now I'm just rambling. Thanks for the input guys.

I noticed that with my Audiophile still enabled in my PC Sonar 4 PE would drop the Tascam Drivers occasionally.

I bit the bullet and disabled the Audiophile in Windows XP Hardware, maybe will enable at sometime in future for other purposes.

So far seems fine.

S8PE 3.06Ghz, 2GB Ram, XP2 SP2, Mackie H824s, Fw-1884,NT1-A, GT66,Reason4, Live 7,Voxengo Mix & Mast. UAD, Melodyne Stu 3,Drumkat, Sound Forge 8..
and a giant list of other stuff

I too have had my computer drop the fw1884 when I open Sonar 3.

When you say "I bit the bullet and disabled the Audiophile in Windows XP Hardware" --- did you disable it from your cpu hardware, so that it has no other choice but the fw1884???

If that is possible (and ok for the cpu) I think I might try that as well. (?)

Is that what you did?

Dustin
------------------------------
Sony Vaio P4 2.8GH
120/80 GB HD (7200)
1.5GB RAM
Windows XP Home Edition
Tascam FW-1884 FireWire
Sonar 4 PE

Yeah, I bit the bullet on this early on. Just disable the audiophile in device manager. Or through Control Panel/Sounds & Audio Devices/Hardware.

I took mine out - but only to frame it for sentementality. So many hours of tunes through that little bugger (wipes misty eyes)...