Two MOTU 896HD units=Stutter on playback

Please note that this is with 24bit/96khz. Stutter does not occur at 16bit/44.1khz. Disable the interface to the second MOTU 896HD and the issue goes away.
I was not overjoyed with the Cakewalk technical response conclusion that it is not a Cakewalk issue. I am not sure I agree.
I contacted MOTU via phone and verbally was told that this is not a MOTU issue, but a Cakewalk issue. So I have written the below email to MOTU on 2/11/05, and have not received a response from MOTU as of today.
Since then I have also tried the dbldawgboot software, which controls priority of devices, which has not solved the issue either.
I am also very hopeful that Cakewalk will see this post and take a deeper look.
Considering that MOTU and Cakewalk are pointing fingers at each other, can anyone help me with this?
Does anyone have two 896HD units that can echo my findings or help find a solution?


Help???



Tech support email sent 2/11/05:
Two MOTU 896HD units=Stutter on playback
After an hour on the phone with Cakewalk Tech support, I am told that this is not a Cakewalk issue.
So please help me get this issue resolved.

Customer contact information:
Greg Alcorn
517 East 161st Place
South Holland IL 60473
T: 708-331-3749 (Night)
O: 800-524-3021 (Day)

Computer equipment:
Motherboard: ASUS P4C800-E deluxe
Cpu: Pentium 4 Prescott 800MHZFSB 1MB 2.8Ghz
Ram: 1GB 3200 Geil (2 pieces of 512=1GB)
Storage: (2) Western Digital 120GB SATA 8 MB Cache 7200 RPM (WD1200JD)
Sound card: 896HD#1 896HD#2
DSP card: (3) TC Electronic PCI Powercore
Video Card: BFG Asylum 5600 256MB NVIDEA
DVD/CD Burner: Sony DVD+RW/+R DVD-RW/-R (DRU510A)
Windows XP servicepack 2 home addition with all updates completed.

Computer Setup:
Note: Audio optimized
Disabled all unnecessary windows services
Auto update=Off
System Restore=Off
Best performance of background services
System sounds=Off
No virus scanner


Issue:
Two MOTU 896HD units=Stutter on playback. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.

Troubleshooting:
Setup:
Unless otherwise stated setup is as follows:
MOTU IO=1024
Sonar IO=1024
24bit-96khz on record and playback.
ASIO

1) Two MOTU 896HD units=Stutter on playback
#1 track at 24bit-96khz recording.
#2 track being played back during the recording.
896HD#1: enabled
896HD#2: enabled
Play back-Noticeable stutters.
Recording-No noticeable stutters.
Note: No stutter on what is recorded, but stutters are noted while recording on the on the #2 play back track during the recording process.
Issue: Two MOTU 896HD units=Stutter on playback. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.

2) 896HD#1 is by itself=No issue
896HD#1: By itself
Play back and recording-No noticeable stutters.

3) 896HD#2 is by itself=No issue
896HD#2: By itself
Play back and recording-No noticeable stutters.

4) Changing IO had minimal effect
#1 track at 24bit-96khz recording.
#2 track being played back during the recording.
896HD#1: enabled
896HD#2: enabled
Play back-Noticeable stutters.
Recording-No noticeable stutters.
Note: No stutter on what is recorded, but stutters are noted while recording on the on the #2 play back track during the recording process.
The stutter seemed to improve slightly between IO settings of :768 and 1024, but did not disappear.
Minimal change-Issue: Two MOTU 896HD units=Stutter on playback. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.

5) 896HD#2 hardware interface disabled through MOTU software=No issue
A) #1 track at 24bit-96khz recording.
#2 track being played back during the recording.
896HD#1: enabled
896HD#1: enabled
Issue: Play back-Noticeable stutters. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.
B) Disable hardware interface for 896HD#2 through MOTU software
#1 track at 24bit-96khz:
#2 track being played back during the recording.
896HD#1: enabled
896HD#2: hardware interface disabled
Play back and recording-No noticeable stutters.

6) Disabled page file (virtual memory)=No change
Disabled page file (virtual memory)
No change--Issue: Play back-Noticeable stutters. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.

7) Removed Windows Service pack 2=No change
No change--Issue: Two MOTU 896HD units=Stutter on playback. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.

8) Reinstall of software=No change
Reinstalled Windows XP
Downloaded the latest drivers from MOTU
Installed MOTU 896HD software
Installed Sonar 4.0 software.
Downloaded the updates for Sonar.
Installed Sonar 4 updates
Note: Hardware software like the Powercore, Sony Oxford has not been installed.
No change-Issue: Play back-Noticeable stutters. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.

9) Separate Fire wire interface=No change
Purchased a new PCI fire wire card from Best Buy.
First fire wire is motherboard hardware=MOTU 896HD#1
PCI Fire wire card=MOTU 896HD#2
No change-Issue: Play back-Noticeable stutters. Stutter location intermittent and moves locations.

10) Contacted cakewalk=No change
1/11/04: Cakewalk Technical Support phone call 1 hour.
A) Initial set up:
Remove lines on Aud.ini, reboot
B)Test 1
1 track at 24bit-44.1khz:
896HD#1 enabled
896HD#2 enabled
Play back and recording-No noticeable stutters.
C) Test 2
1 track at 24bit-96khz.
896HD#1: enabled
896HD#2: enabled
Play back-Noticeable stutters.
Recording-No noticeable stutters.
D) Test 3
Disable hardware interface for 896HD#2
1 track at 24bit-96khz:
896HD#1: enabled
896HD#2: hardware interface disabled
Play back and recording-No noticeable stutters.
E) Test 4
Device manager review-no issues found, but still stutters
F) Test 5
Change project storage locations to different hard drive. Still stutters.
Cakewalk conclusion:
Contact MOTU this is not a Cakewalk issue.
11) Motu, please help

Sincerely,
Greg Alcorn

Anyone?

Hi, Greg,
This sounds pretty much like the problem I have had with my two 828MkII's. It seems to me it's not Cakewalk's fault, since I had the Same problem with Soundforge. I tried everything I can think of and MOtu could think of. I did get rid of the problems with recording stutters, but playback still had problems. The 96k light on one would flash when the stutter happened, so one day it occured to me to disable the interface I wasn't using to play back the stereo mix. I disabled it in the MOTU firewire software, and, wonder of wonders, the stuttering went away, as did some other lesser problems that were plagueing me. Both Sonar and SoundForge work perfectly all the time, and I can lower my latency almost to 0. So, if anyone, I consider it to be MOTU's responsibility, but, on the other hand, I have no need to have both interfaces working when I'm just mixing and playing back, so perhaps it's just a function of the internal clock in the one being utilized not sending a signal to the unit not being utilized. I also have found that the firewire cable itself can often cause problems, so I keep a new one handy. Firewire seems to be a bit less flexible than its promoted to be. Another thing that has caused problems for me is if, when I install new firewire drivers for the MOTU, I don't uninstall the old drivers and then install the new oneswith the units off or unplugged. I reboot the computer with the new drivers and then reconnect the units. No problems! Hope this helps. This PC Daw thing gets pretty complex, and there will probably always be glitches to deal with as long as we have an OS like Windows that tries to accomodate any and all hardware, unlike Mac, which is more limited on what can be put into the box.
Admittedly, your problem with a different model that I have may be very different, but I hope this helps. In spite of the problems I've had, I do love my 828's-great sound, etc. and Sonar's usability for me. Happy recording!
Frank Ingalls

ORIGINAL: grega60438

John Page,
Thank you for your help. VIA and MOTU do not mix.
I disabled the VIA firewire and the issue is solved.

Now I am actually able to use all 16 inputs of two MOTU896HD units! Alcorn Studios is back in business.
Yay!!!!
Wow, really shows how challenging a DAW setup can be, due to unknown compatability issues.

Thank you also to Frankeyjj for trying to help out too.
John Page, I owe you one.

Peace!
Greg Alcorn
Alcorn Studios

No problem, Im glad it was that easy I have been using my MOTU Firewire stuff for about 3 years and 99% of the problems is with the Firewire controller, once you get the right one going you will find the MOTU stuff to be pretty solid. Good luck and have fun!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: Im surprised that got past the MOTU tech support, thats usually the first question your asked