PC Speaker Metronome

For some God awful reason I'm having a horrible time getting the non-MIDI metronome to work within Sonar 3.1 Producer. I have an M-Audio FW410 and can get the metronome working fine when using MIDI and triggering an external device, (such as my Alesis QS8) but I'm having no luck with the provided 'PC Speaker' metronome that is supposed to internally trigger a cymbal (according to the User's Guide).

Anyone having any similar problems?

I've been able to get it to work, but I couldn't get volume control over it and it was often too quiet.

Just a suggestion: I've given up on the metronome altogether and use a MIDI track to trigger a soft synth (I use the woodblock on the Edirol VSC). The only thing I don't get is a count-in, but I've found issues with that too - eg. Let's say you count in and start recording right after the count-in. You may have played the first note a hair before the recording kicks in a you lose a note (also, your beat may actually require a slightly ahead of beat note). Anytime I want to record something, I just start the song a measure or two before I want to record and jump in with the song when it's time. If I already have something recorded and don't want to mess it up, I just use another track and then merge them, etc. And I keep a few empty measures at the beginning of the song so I have count-in measures there in case I need them.

The idea is to create 1 measure of 4 quarter notes. Make the velocity on the first note a little louder and maybe a different note (in my case, a higher pitched woodblock on the first note). Then enable groove-clip looping on the clip, change the resolution of your project in the track view so you can see as many measures as possible, grab the right side of the clip and drag it for a few hundred measures. (Plus, you can have a template set up for this).

Anyway, just a suggestion... You can mute the track to turn it on and off.

Hey thanks Yasoo! That is a great idea. I've actually messed with that before and it works really well. The only problem with that is if you decide to change the tempo then you'd have to re-record and loop the MIDI track. I'm thinking about just buying the DXi plug-in 'PING'. I'm just wondering why the internal PC Speaker metronome isn't working. Weird.

Slightly OT, but I'm using different simple 'acidized' drum loops with the appropriate groove as metronome.
I find this helps me increating a better performance.
You should be able to insert tempo changes also.

ORIGINAL: andrewfoshee

I'm having no luck with the provided 'PC Speaker' metronome that is supposed to internally trigger a cymbal (according to the User's Guide).

You may be misinterpreting the User's Guide. It is the MIDI metronome that defaults to triggering a hihat sound on a General MIDI keymap. The "PC Speaker" metronome, by contrast, uses the computer's internal speaker - which is only capable of beeps - for a metronome. You will only hear a beep, or short sound pulse. Depending on your computer manufacturer and how loud the case's internal speaker is, you may not be able to hear it at all above the fan noise, etc.

The suggestions already posted in this thread by Yasoo and Erik are a good workaround.

Ahhh, that makes wonderful sense. Thanks Russell. I guess I need to just chose the MIDI metronome then and work with that. My question is this ... how do you control the 'general MIDI keymap'? That's where this is confusing. When hooked up externally to my QS8 (that I just sold on Ebay) I can route it to Channel 1 and select, for example, a kick drum on my QS8. Works fine. I have sound. Now as far as internal routing of MIDI, this is where I get confused. Any words of wisdom?

*BUMP*

I think you need to ask a specific question. "Any words of wisdom about MIDI?" is way too vague.

The question was specifically regarding the internal routing of MIDI when utilizing the MIDI metronome. I thought that was pretty specific. I figured it out a great fix though ... by running the out from my internal soundcard to an input on my Firewire 410 I now have a sweet, easy to use metronome with the PC speaker click track. I just run it into an audio track, select that track and do a little EQ boost around 800Hz and it sounds great. I figured it all out ... for now.

ORIGINAL: andrewfoshee
The only problem with that is if you decide to change the tempo then you'd have to re-record and loop the MIDI track.

Not if you do it the way I said. That's the basis behind MIDI. You tell it you want 4 quarter notes - one at every 1/4 measure. No matter what the tempo is, it will play those 4 notes every 1/4 measure.

ORIGINAL: andrewfoshee
... how do you control the 'general MIDI keymap'? That's where this is confusing. When hooked up externally to my QS8 (that I just sold on Ebay) I can route it to Channel 1 and select, for example, a kick drum on my QS8. Works fine. I have sound. Now as far as internal routing of MIDI, this is where I get confused. Any words of wisdom?

That's a little tricky. I can get that to work, but the count-in still won't work. It requires the use of MIDI Yoke. Looks like you got your solution, but I'll tell this way in case you are interested. You need to install MIDI Yoke. You can get that here: http://www.midiox.com/index.htm Then, in Sonar, you need to select your regular MIDI ins and outs and also select MIDI Yoke ins and outs (under Options->MIDI devices), and they need to be the same port. For simplicity, select MIDI Yoke 1 for both. Pay attention to where in the output list the MIDI Yoke 1 entry is. Count down from the top. The first device selcted is port 1, the next is port 2, etc. I have my regular MIDI out as the first entry and MIDI Yoke NT 1 as the second entry. So in the metronome options you select port 2 and if you keep it on channel 10 and the notes are already selected to play the high hats on a general MIDI drum kit. Add and Edirol VSC as before. You'll notice that the Edirol VSC has a standard kit already setup on channel 10. Create a MIDI track and select MIDI Yoke NT: 1 as the input, your VSC for the output, and Channel 10 for the channel. Turn input echo on for that MIDI track (the button to the right on the MSR buttons on the track). Then, just make sure any MIDI tracks you are using are set to a specific input and not ALL Inputs OMNI, otherwise the metronome will try to play those tracks too. There ya go. If you set it up right, you'll have the metronome, but no count-in.

But I think the way I first described is easier. :)