When I have completed mixing my projects I mute and archive any unused tracks, select all the remaining tracks and select file-export-audio where I choose the 'what you hear' preset and export to 16 44.1k wav ( I should add that all the tracks have realtime fades at their begingings and ends so there are no 'non zero' points)

every thing exports ok but when I burn them to cd (using Pinnicle instand cd/dvd) there is a single large click in the silence at the end of the track (it's not the cd app cos i've also burned the wavs as data and used K3b and the clicks are still there).

I found a work around which is to reimport the exported tracks in to a new project, put new fades on the start and end of them, bounce to tracks and then grab them from the arrange page and drop them in a folder (bypassing the file-export route).

Thing is I don't want a work around I want it to work! I can hear no clicks when I play the mix back so why when I export 'what you hear' does sonar put clicks at the end of my tracks?

its an atholn xp 2600 rig 512meg asus a7v400x echo layla 20, works fine in all other respects apart from this one annoying 'feature' please someone tell me what I am doing wrong!?

edit: sorry forgot to say this is on Sonar 4.02SE

many thanks

Child

come on someone must be able to tell me what I am doing wrong to make Sonar put clicks at the end of my tracks?

please!!

child

every thing exports ok

and ..

i've also burned the wavs as data and used K3b and the clicks are still there

you see .. they did NOT export "ok" if you burned them as wav files (as a data cd) and they have that click in them.

i don't know where that click comes from but load the exported wav into any 2 track editor and see if you get a clean file there .. re save them if needed.. of course it's just a workaround .. maybe add some blank measures to the end of the project and then export ? trim the file as needed later on

Yeah what Al said.

I don't have this problem either.
I second the notion of opening them in a s track editor & see what you get.
I'm willing to bet it's your burning app that is causing the click.

Stich

Thanks Al you've progressed my understanding massively,

When you quoted me you missed the vital 'BUT' that I included to indicate that whilst the bulk of the export was ok (i.e envelopes worked, there were no clicks in my audio such as may be caused buy ambitious latency settings, unfunky audio drivers or a clipped buss) I also explained that there is no click when I replay the project immediately prior to trying to export it using the 'what you hear' preset.

I also bothered to explain that I have a work around but that I'd like to not have to use it, i can't find any other users reporting this problem so the natural conclusion is that I am doing something wrong!

So why does 'what you hear' put stuff I cant hear in to the file?

I appreciate your time and efforts nevertheless

Cheers
Child

Thanks Stich

How much do you wanna bet on the burning app (rubs hands in anticipation )

Seriously though it's not I know it's sonar because I have the work around, I wish I din't have to use it.

Cheers
Child

When you quoted me you missed the vital 'BUT' that I included to indicate that whilst the bulk of the export was ok

of course i saw the BUT there .. i think you didn't get my point

when you take a WAV file on the hard drive and burn the FILE into a cd (as you also tried.. as DATA) there's no way that
the original file on the HD will play without that click and the burned file (an EXACT copy... it must be 100% the same..right ? ) will not ..

i'm saying all that so you would eliminate the burning to cd as the cause of that click at the end ..

and now .. to complicate things - of course there are exception with how some extra info/header data inside files are being handled by different media players -some files might click in one sound editor/player while another will skip that "region" and will give you clean playback ..

I've just been and double checked and I can see the click in Sonar (I don't have any other audio software on my music box because I can do everything I want in Sonar) but yeah I am looking at the project where I have dragged my exported tracks back in to a new project, when I zoom right in on the end of the file the last single sample goes from from zero to full gain in one sample, it's a 45degree straight line leaving the file to end at full gain, no wonder it's making a nasty click.

This is before the file has been anywhere near any cd burning apps, so Stich it's time to cough up! I'll settle for one of these: http://www.larking.com/images/VTC%2032%20No%20M-B%20Edited.jpg

So it is definitely a problem with the export process but is it user error or a fault with sonar? I checked back with the original project and there is a realtime fade at the end of the last track playing so the files being rendered should be at zero when they get there. Do i also need to be puting a volume envelope in to my master buss?

Al (or anyone else who doesn't experience this problem) please can you describe how you export an 'in the box' mix such that you don't experience this rather anoying phenomena? (theres no soft synths or anything just plain old recorded audio)

Cheers again

Child

ORIGINAL: Rothchild
......when I zoom right in on the end of the file the last single sample goes from from zero to full gain in one sample, it's a 45degree straight line leaving the file to end at full gain, no wonder it's making a nasty click.

Have you tried putting a Clip envelope on the end of the offending clip?

I had a similar happening when I exported my mixed track as a Broadcast wav instead of as a redbook RIFF. When I re exported as a RIFF, the click at the end was gone.

I've had a click at the beginning and the end

Just using Sonar bounce the entire mix to track.

Solo the mixed track. If necessary drag the ends of the clip to make it a little longer than the song. Add a fade in at the beginning, and a fade out at the end.

Don

Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
http://www.vggallery.com
Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668

mixed track as a Broadcast wav instead of as a redbook RIFF. When I re exported as a RIFF, the click at the end was gone.

aha ! sounds logical .. this came just in time to explain my "how some extra info/header data inside files are being handled by different media players " theory ;)

so also different burning apps can ignore some extra data ( like a barodcast wav format has)..and some burning apps treat it as part of the sound file itself..part of the wav sound contents and then they just burn it as audio WITH that click..

unrecognized digital info (when not removed by the burning app or player) = digital noise when played back (a short click in this case)

Thanks everyone,

As I have stated though I already know the work around, it is to reimport any exported tracks and to put a fade on the end of them (or infact simply remove the last 44thousandth of a second) and then to grab the clip from the arrange page and drop it in a folder, you have to keep the mouse button down while it processes it (says 'exporting' at the bottom of the screen), and once it's done you can let go and it drops the file (without a click )in the folder.

This is just an unnecesary faff though and the only thing that doesn't work for me in an otherwise killer app

So I guess the more pertinent question(s) I should be asking are::

What is the difference between file-export-audio with the 'what you hear' preset and simply grabbing tracks off the arrange page? (I'm guessing the grabbing approach doesn't include busses?)

Should I perhaps be using bounce to tracks rather than file-export-audio?

Even though no one else seems to be having this problem should I submit some sort of bug report?

As an aside Als observations must mean that both my cd burning apps are pretty good because they are totally recreating the file as presented, so Stich I'll have the cable to go with that baby as well lol (k3b is free by the way check it out: http://www.k3b.org/)

thanks again

Child

ORIGINAL: Rothchild

come on someone must be able to tell me what I am doing wrong to make Sonar put clicks at the end of my tracks?

please!!

child

Do you actually hear the clicks????
I got them also at the end of a wave in CW Pro Audio. But I didn't hear the clicks.
But now I'm using Sonar 3 PE and they r not appear anymore.

www.myspace.com/dimuthu

select all the remaining tracks and select file-export-audio where I choose the 'what you hear' preset and export to 16 44.1k wav

Just an Idea...

after you select all the remaining tracks,
add more time to the end of the selection before you export.

I find I sometimes have problems at the end of an exported files
if I don't add a bar of empty time at the end before export.
I always do this now, for good measure. :)

This doesn't seem like this is a Sonar issue either, and may be something common...

Some people I know (which use ProTools) always use a sound editor (sound forge)
to clean up / trim and sometimes create final fades at the ends of tracks before going to arrangement / mastering.

I wonder if anyone else practices this?


Hope that helps,
Tomek.

Dimuthu, I don't hear the click in sonar (either on the mix or the bounced version) although I can see that the final sample (in the exported version) is not at zero as it should be, nevertheless when I burn the tracks to cd there is an audible click at the end of the track (in the silence).

I will try the 'adding time' work around,would it work by including a muted clip that rolls past the 'real' end of the piece when I select the tracks for export?

Thanks everyone, I am supprised that I am the only person who gets this when it seems that I am actually following due process and that it is not user error, I guess the only other thing to try is knoocking off any pluggins and seeing if it still does it.

Cheers
Child

I used to have the same problem when I had a Gina 20. It went away when I changed sound cards to an Aardvark Q10. Perhaps it could be a driver problem with the Gina. It's probably nothing you did wrong. Good luck.
Lynn

That's interesting, thanks Lynn. Do you recall which driver release you got up to before you ditched the Gina?

I hadn't suspected the driver to date as I didn't believe that mixing in the box would need to go anywere near the audio driver, but that was only an insubstantial hunch. I also have an old Yamaha sw1000xg that I only use for midi in there I might try disabling the Layla and trying a bounce with the 'swonky' drivers enabled.

Anyone out there using a Layla 20 without this problem?

Cheers
Child

I have had this problem with every version of SONAR and on several sound cards (currently Aardvark Q10). When I open the mixed soundfile in SAW Pro, there is a large spike about 2 milliseconds from the end. Since I always do my final normalization and tweaking in SAW, I've gotten used to this. But I don't think the problem is with SONAR per se, I think it may be what different applications see as the end of audio data in the file. For instance, I can open a SONAR mix in Cool Edit Pro, and no spike. Then open the same file in SAW, and there it is! Some CD burners include the click, but at least Gear doesn't. Anyone seeing this?

I think it may be what different applications see as the end of audio data in the file. For instance, I can open a SONAR mix in Cool Edit Pro, and no spike. Then open the same file in SAW, and there it is! Some CD burners include the click, but at least Gear doesn't. Anyone seeing this?

aha .. 2nd time now , thanks - it proves what i said above twice already

" different applications see as the end of audio data in the file" - not only how they see it , it's how they interpret data
(while loading and while playing - turning digital junk into a part of the audio - CLICK as a result - or just ignore those extra "unknown" bytes )

have had this problem with every version of SONAR and on several sound cards (currently Aardvark Q10).

bump

i wonder if this is the case - some cards have that and some not ? maybe it's better to check again ..maybe it was just the apps that were used are different ?

i'm not saying that sonar's audio engine is perfect - gapping / PDC issues sometimes.. i DO have complaints about some problems like those reveb tails when you stop in once place and play again in another..also a problem when exporting..unwanted reverb tails or noises from time based fx getting into a project's begining for example ..

Cakewalk should check about that click at the end and if it's somehow related to the above or not ..

ORIGINAL: Lynn
I used to have the same problem when I had a Gina 20. It went away when I changed sound cards to an Aardvark Q10. Perhaps it could be a driver problem with the Gina. It's probably nothing you did wrong. Good luck.
Lynn

I forgot to say. I also change my sound card drivers from Creative to KX Project drivers when I switched to Sonar.
Now I don't get that click in my projects. I think its better to upgrade or downgrade drivers and check again whether that click appear anymore.

www.myspace.com/dimuthu

"turning digital junk into a part of the audio"

Hey don't talk about my tunes like that!

Seriously though, it is Sonar that is doing this right? I am thinking more and more that I should submit a bug report against this. I am gonna try the other workarounds I mentioned today first (different drivers, no plugs etc). Do the Cakewalk staff still wander these boards much?

I am not about to go switching a bundle of apps for this, I am actually happy that my cd burning app includes the click because I can see it plain as daylight in the file in Sonar and so it means (to me) that the app is accurately burning what I give it.

Does anyone know what the difference is between doing file-export and grabbing the the clip straight out of the arrange window?

Thanks again all

Child

I don't not know if this will have anything to do with your problem, but have you had a look at the audio options. There is an option that say something like "play effects tails after stopping" or something in that line.

Theory: There might be an effect with some audio data in the buffer not being released due to longer effects latency. Sonar's latency compensation may get to the end of the mix down and release the whole un-emptied buffer all at once.

Just a thought.

http://sepheritoh.blogspot.com/
http://www.dog-on-blues.co.za/

you could have some DC offset in your audio. Check your signal path.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

For Sale - 10.5x7ft Whisperroom recording booth.

http://www.daverichband.com
http://www.soundclick.com/daverich