jlgrimes
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1639
- Joined: 2003/12/15 12:37:09
- Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 14:25:43
(permalink)
Or perhaps they are tryng to conseve CPU power? I was meaning at sample level where you wouldn't use any cpu power. The compression would be part of the sample. Some people even talk about compressing drum sounds at sample level to make them louder. I guess that depends on what type of effect you want to achieve. Compression is probably not the only effect that is being done. I'm pretty sure they are EQing things and such (cutting/boosting freqs here and there) too. People also have become more accustomed to these keyboard sounds than the real thing too (esp if they listen to more pop compositions with 8 other instruments which usually means the sound has to be tweaked to sit more in the mix.).
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 14:29:15
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: pharohoknaughty
If the Extreme does not cut it, I will re-investigate Sample Tank. Perhaps I did not give enough of a chance. Evidently the after market samples help it out.
Definitely worth a run-through. Sonic Reality / Sonik Synth does expand it by quit a bit, as do their Sonic Refills. You can audition them on the site to get a flavor, and like HG pointed out, they now offer samples a-la-carte. People are commenting that the samples often sound different in the mix compared to solo. I know this is true, but I am not good enough to predict this kind of thing, so for me I need it to sound good solo. Don't feel bad. I'm not sure that anyone can predict this with perfect certainty 100% of the time. More often, it's a matter of laying a bed of tracks and finding sounds for each instrument that work well together. This is sort of a "second layer" to just picking sounds individually, and gets interesting (and sometimes tedious) as you search through all the combinations of sounds, presets, tweaks, and FX for the different tracks. It's also where a lot of "magic" can happen. My soundcard is a Delta 44 on the sampler computer and a Frontier Dakota/Montana on the DAW, with a Roland VM-7200 digital mixer.
That setup shouldn't be limiting on your creativity. Did you mention what you're monitoring on?
|
WhyBe
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1009
- Joined: 2004/01/01 11:59:36
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 16:23:36
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: jlgrimes
People also have become more accustomed to these keyboard sounds than the real thing too (esp if they listen to more pop compositions with 8 other instruments which usually means the sound has to be tweaked to sit more in the mix.).
All the more reason softsynth manufacturers need to put in the same effort toward their sample set as do the hardware manufacturers. Perhaps since storage is not a major issue, soft synth manufacturers can offer both the "natural sounding" samples AND the "candy-coated" ones. As of now, if I want the candy-coating, I am better off with the hardware.
|
Steve_Karl
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2534
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:53:26
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 16:45:14
(permalink)
|
WhyBe
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1009
- Joined: 2004/01/01 11:59:36
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 17:16:34
(permalink)
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 18:23:46
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: WhyBe
ORIGINAL: jlgrimes
People also have become more accustomed to these keyboard sounds than the real thing too
All the more reason softsynth manufacturers need to put in the same effort toward their sample set as do the hardware manufacturers. Perhaps since storage is not a major issue, soft synth manufacturers can offer both the "natural sounding" samples AND the "candy-coated" ones.
As of now, if I want the candy-coating, I am better off with the hardware.
If they're willing, I'm game, but they have to weight the cost of doing so against the price they charge. Regarding giving base sounds / instruments with presets using various types of polish, actually, I'm quite pleased by the effort folks like IK Multimedia / eSoundz (SampleTank/SonikSynth/SonicReality) and Applied Acoustics (Tassman) have made in doing just that very thing.
|
harmony gardens
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3490
- Joined: 2004/01/10 18:50:48
- Location: Richland Center WI
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 20:13:30
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: losguy
ORIGINAL: WhyBe
ORIGINAL: jlgrimes
People also have become more accustomed to these keyboard sounds than the real thing too
All the more reason softsynth manufacturers need to put in the same effort toward their sample set as do the hardware manufacturers. Perhaps since storage is not a major issue, soft synth manufacturers can offer both the "natural sounding" samples AND the "candy-coated" ones.
As of now, if I want the candy-coating, I am better off with the hardware.
If they're willing, I'm game, but they have to weight the cost of doing so against the price they charge.
Regarding giving base sounds / instruments with presets using various types of polish, actually, I'm quite pleased by the effort folks like IK Multimedia / eSoundz (SampleTank/SonikSynth/SonicReality) and Applied Acoustics (Tassman) have made in doing just that very thing.
Good to see you too Carlos!! Ive been slightly distracted lately, because my father had open heart surgery, and my tennant has been ill, and both needed my help. I also bought Conker's Bad Fur Day, for Nintendo 64 and got hooked, but I digress. My old DX7 sits atop my old RD 300, and are still my controllers. I still have an M1, and an Alesis SR packed in boxes in my storage area, but all my other hardware stuff has gone down the road. Everything I have done in the last couple years has been an exploration of softsynths. It's no secret that I've been very happy with Sampletank and the sounds available through eSoundz, especially the group buys, which has made it possible for me to assemble an amazing library of voices. The new Sampletank 2.1 library upgrade is FINALLY available. The original Sampletank sounds were definately of uneven quality. That said, I have felt very comfortable leaving the hardware world behind for software. To me, the greatest sacrifice has been the time invested in learning how to manage a pc, and not the quality of the results. I guess to me the premise that softsynths lack quality, reminds me of a time when you would have people defending record albums against CD's. While it's true that perhaps in some purist form, it could be argued that hardware has certain advantages, but weighed against the whole, I generally prefer softsynths, not only for the space they save, but also for the quality they can deliver. There is no question that softsynths have also greatly reduced my trips to the repair shops, and given me access to a things I could have never afforded in the past. Then again, the used market is flooded with great deals on this older hardware, as throngs of expirienced users shead their hardware based systems for DAW's. I guess that should tell us something. It's also nice to be able to have a pro level system, and still have money for more mundane needs, such as food and heat.  I now happily use Sampletank, Tassman 4, Amplitube, FM7, Dimension, Philharmonik, and several other softsynths too numerous to mention, and never look back. It's worked well for me.
|
Steve_Karl
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2534
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:53:26
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 20:21:27
(permalink)
|
WhyBe
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1009
- Joined: 2004/01/01 11:59:36
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 22:49:44
(permalink)
Steve_Karl - sounds good. This is the type of sound common with soft synths. Goes a long way in showing how having lots of storage and great sample layering/switching gives softsynths an advantage. However, I would like to hear some pop or hip-hop "flavor of the minute" type of music done entirely softsynth.
post edited by WhyBe - 2006/01/14 22:53:21
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/14 23:31:36
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: harmony gardens
Good to see you too Carlos!! Ive been slightly distracted lately, because my father had open heart surgery, and my tennant has been ill, and both needed my help. I also bought Conker's Bad Fur Day, for Nintendo 64 and got hooked, but I digress.
Sounds like you've had your hands full. Hope your father is OK. My father passed away last August, which was difficult but miraculously I found an inexplicable peace through it all. I'd had years to prepare for it since his stroke back in 1999, and we were able to close many loose ends in our relationship. Meanwhile I've been managing a thriving business, which being a startup keeps me plenty busy. About a week and a half ago I walked away from a serious car accident. Another miracle, You can follow that story over on this thread at The Other Place. My old DX7 sits atop my old RD 300, and are still my controllers. I still have an M1, and an Alesis SR packed in boxes in my storage area, but all my other hardware stuff has gone down the road. Everything I have done in the last couple years has been an exploration of softsynths. It's no secret that I've been very happy with Sampletank and the sounds available through eSoundz, especially the group buys, which has made it possible for me to assemble an amazing library of voices. The new Sampletank 2.1 library upgrade is FINALLY available. The original Sampletank sounds were definately of uneven quality. That said, I have felt very comfortable leaving the hardware world behind for software. To me, the greatest sacrifice has been the time invested in learning how to manage a pc, and not the quality of the results. I feel for ya. And I don't care how crowded my studio is, I'm making room for my old DX7. I guess to me the premise that softsynths lack quality, reminds me of a time when you would have people defending record albums against CD's. While it's true that perhaps in some purist form, it could be argued that hardware has certain advantages, but weighed against the whole, I generally prefer softsynths, not only for the space they save, but also for the quality they can deliver. There is no question that softsynths have also greatly reduced my trips to the repair shops, and given me access to a things I could have never afforded in the past. Then again, the used market is flooded with great deals on this older hardware, as throngs of expirienced users shead their hardware based systems for DAW's. I guess that should tell us something. It's also nice to be able to have a pro level system, and still have money for more mundane needs, such as food and heat. I now happily use Sampletank, Tassman 4, Amplitube, FM7, Dimension, Philharmonik, and several other softsynths too numerous to mention, and never look back. It's worked well for me.
Couldn't agree more. I still have some hardware that could make some budding musician or vintage collector happy, too, someday. The top flight of modern softsynths are an incredible value, and offer lots of performance that's totally up-to-snuff by any standard. My list of fav plugs is similar to yours (a big part because of your group buy threads ), but unique as well. Oh, so many things yet to explore, once I get the time to try them.
|
AndyW
Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2956
- Joined: 2005/10/06 17:13:00
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/15 00:13:23
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: WhyBe
However, I would like to hear some pop or hip-hop "flavor of the minute" type of music done entirely softsynth.
Not sure if it's your flavor or even if it's a "minute's worth"  but I have a work in progress on my soundclick site called "Funkelele'" that is all softsynth and guitars(and of course, Ukelele). The synths are Tassman, Tassman 3, Dream Station, Dimension Pro, LiveSynth Pro. Definitely pop vein. If you stick around for the end all the ending synth and strings are Dimension Pro. I especially like the bell accents!  Anyway...at least one example of "all softsynth" pop. I am still working on vocal tracks for this one...the song name is actually going to be called "Bring your Rain".
|
hornplayer
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1024
- Joined: 2004/05/04 03:24:04
- Location: Sacramento
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/15 00:41:36
(permalink)
I'm currently debating whether I even have room for my venerable DX7, even as just a controller. If I lived closer, I'd love to come take it off your hands (in case you lose the debate). It'd look just great next to my M1.
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/15 00:47:12
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: hornplayer
I'm currently debating whether I even have room for my venerable DX7, even as just a controller.
If I lived closer, I'd love to come take it off your hands (in case you lose the debate). It'd look just great next to my M1.
Now wait just a menizzle! Not having room in the studio is one thing, but unloading it is a horse of an entirely different color! Anyway, you'll see your answer in my last post. Nice try, though! P.S. Thanks for your interest!
|
harmony gardens
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3490
- Joined: 2004/01/10 18:50:48
- Location: Richland Center WI
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/15 01:30:57
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: losguy
ORIGINAL: hornplayer
I'm currently debating whether I even have room for my venerable DX7, even as just a controller.
If I lived closer, I'd love to come take it off your hands (in case you lose the debate). It'd look just great next to my M1.
Now wait just a menizzle! Not having room in the studio is one thing, but unloading it is a horse of an entirely different color!
Anyway, you'll see your answer in my last post. Nice try, though!
P.S. Thanks for your interest!
LMAO,,, yeah, it's hard to part with some things,,,, my DX7 was in the very first shippment that made it to Wisconsin. I paid something close to $1700 for it, and I still even have the breath controller. I can't sell that for the $250 it would bring, lol. Sometimes I miss my Korg DW8000, but then I load Tassman, and the pain goes away. It's like selling an old horse. I also have my old Tascam 4 track in my parents basement. Every time I visit, my mom says, you want that big box downstairs?? I keep putting it off, cause I don't really have room for it here, but I don't want to sell it for what it would bring. This is OT, for sure, but back in the day, bigger was better, and we used to actually haul around empty speaker cabinets to create the illusion of a huge wall of sound. You got more energy when your young. :) I used to think I would sound like Rick Wakeman if I had a slew of keyboards surrounding me,,, then one day it hit me. If I wanted to sound like Rick Wakeman, it would take some practice, too. LOL
post edited by harmony gardens - 2006/01/15 01:40:50
|
pharohoknaughty
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1226
- Joined: 2004/07/08 17:29:16
- Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/15 03:09:28
(permalink)
Fixed now.
http://www.sightsea.com/music/singles/pencil_time_steve_karl.mp3 An absolutley fine work. The piano sounds great in the mix. This has helped me put my finger on the complaint I have. I want the piano to sound like it is sitting in front of me, just like a grand piano sounds while you play it. Your production, which sounds great, has the piano sounding like it is part of a combo. By the way, your playing shows great dexterity amd musical skill.
|
jlgrimes
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1639
- Joined: 2003/12/15 12:37:09
- Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/15 09:46:42
(permalink)
This thread also got me thinking a little bit about softsynths vs. hardware synths.
I noticed the Fantom X6 sounds just tended to have more prescence on a whole than my softsynth sounds this was even the case when using custom samples.
So what I did was route a spidif connection from my Layla 3g to the input on the Fantom X.
Doing this gave my softsynths a more punchier sound typical to hardware synths such as the Roland.
This is kind of telling me d/a converters are making an even bigger difference than I thought.
|
StrangeCat
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13
- Joined: 2004/01/10 17:29:44
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/16 04:44:07
(permalink)
Kontakt 2 the only synth and sampler you really ever need, ok nice to have Reactor 5 too.
PMI Pianos truly some of the best pianos
East West Symphonic Gold or Platinum XP Pro , all your instruments and solo instruments for complete orchesta realism
no need to really use eq just limiter and your good
Spectrosonics Atmosphere really only pads you will ever need
Spectrosonics Trilogy only basses you really ever need.
Now I am going to sound like a jerk here I never really post on this forum so here goes. If you think samples are poor etc then you need to learn how to program synths and read up on making sounds sound more alive^_* using fx.
Good luck
Sonar or whatever just sequencers that are tools to use.
|
Steve_Karl
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2534
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:53:26
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/16 13:04:22
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: pharohoknaughty
Fixed now.
http://www.sightsea.com/music/singles/pencil_time_steve_karl.mp3
An absolutley fine work.
The piano sounds great in the mix. This has helped me put my finger on the complaint I have.
I want the piano to sound like it is sitting in front of me, just like a grand piano sounds while you play it.
Your production, which sounds great, has the piano sounding like it is part of a combo.
By the way, your playing shows great dexterity amd musical skill.
Thank you. Now I'll tell you the whole scoop on this song. It's called "Pencil Time" ... reason being ... 98% of it was done in PRV with the pencil tool. I didn't have a good weighted controller at the time, and although I've since purchaced a Yamaha S90, most of my piano music is still trapped in my head because of still very limited technique. The mix is a direct capture from GigaStudio and then a bit of mastering in Sound Forge, no eq on the piano. Giga piano is very easy to fit into a mix. In this tune it is at it's full stereo spread, but there are times that I render it to Sonar in 2 mono tracks and then work with the placement a bit more. Sometimes it gets a bit of eq also. Steve
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/16 13:37:05
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Steve_Karl
It's called "Pencil Time" ... reason being ... 98% of it was done in PRV with the pencil tool.
I didn't have a good weighted controller at the time, and although I've since purchaced a Yamaha
S90, most of my piano music is still trapped in my head because of still very limited technique.
Ouch! My finger hurts just thinking about this. This is a monumental effort. Giga piano is very easy to fit into a mix. In this tune it is at it's full stereo spread, but there are times that I
render it to Sonar in 2 mono tracks and then work with the placement a bit more. Since you didn't mention it, you can render to a single stereo track and use the surround panner (in stereo) or GPan to accomplish the same thing. Key emphasis on "same"... it's just a matter of taste, personal interest, and what you're used to. But this stereo-panning trick works wonders for properly placing stereo softsynths and existing stereo tracks without having to split or re-render.
|
Steve_Karl
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2534
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:53:26
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/16 13:49:50
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: losguy
Ouch! My finger hurts just thinking about this. This is a monumental effort.
I've gotten pretty quick in PRV since version 3.x <G> Thanks for the tip on the panning! Steve
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Soft Synths Begone!
2006/01/16 13:57:29
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Steve_Karl
I've gotten pretty quick in PRV since version 3.x <G> Evidently. But if you don't mind, I think I'll just keep polishing my keyboard chops! But I really do like PRV, especially that pencil tool... for editing, though! (OK, maybe for those really wild runs that I'm too lazy to get perfect before I forget the rest of the song...) Thanks for the tip on the panning! Glad to help, Steve. I learned about it right here in this very same awesome forum.
|