Multiple Delta 1010 Cards - 16 bit only?

First of all, greetings Cakwalk Forum! I am a forum newb but have been a casual user of Cakewalk products over 10 years now and have been lurking the last several months whilst I get my new studio setup. I am a member of several other forums, and I find that the people here are a bit more helpful and less hostile towards each other than most others, so I am hopeful you guys will be able to help me out on this one.

I have been using a Delta 1010 sound card for the last 4 years, and have been very happy with it's performance. I recently added a second card to my setup, and have started having some issues.

Long story short, I have read the Maudio knowledge base, and have connected the cards clocks together with a SPDIF cable as instructed, have setup up the cards in the patchbay per the kb's recommendations... and the sound cards are working and sound fine, in 16-bit. I've run the wave profiler in Sonar 6, but now I cannot use 24 bit recording or a I get an error message stating that the sound cards can't support it. I've tried various things to debug this, including uninstallating and reinstalling, all to no avail. I am stuc in 16-bit land now.

While I am generally OK with 16 bit/44k recording, which I use for writing and arrangement, I am disappointed that the option to record in 24 bit is not available to me, which I use during my actual performance takes. I have several projects that I am working on in 24 bit, now I have to change formats in order to hear them.

Has anybody else experienced this problem with the 1010, and have you found a fix?

I guess I should state my platform - it is an AMD Athlon 3400 with an nVidia chipset, UMA graphics, and 1GB memory.

You should be able to use 24bit just fine. I think those cards work best with WDM drivers if you are using ASIO you might try that. After you switch types you might need to close Sonar, delete the aud.ini file, and restart Sonar so it can rebuild the aud.ini.

One of things I've heard with multiple M-Audio cards is that you must sync the clocks on both cards for them to work correctly. This is done in the M-Audio control panel I believe, and there are few posts on here that people stated they had the same issue, and that lock fixed it. Sorry, I can't be more specific, but I'm pretty sure this one has a resolution to it. You might want to contact M-audio support as well.

multiple 1010s will work in 16bit or 24bit just fine.

A - install the latest drivers. in the m-audio control panel, set all cards to multiple card sync. that's the easy way. only works in winXP or better.

B - the harder way is to set the first card to single and then run a spdif cable from card 1 to card 2 and tell card 2 to lock to spdif time clock.

either way works, i have been using method A for 4 years with no problems. the m-audio knowledge base is out of date as is the owner's manual because the newer drivers work differently.

have fun

ORIGINAL: DragonLips

One of things I've heard with multiple M-Audio cards is that you must sync the clocks on both cards for them to work correctly. This is done in the M-Audio control panel I believe, and there are few posts on here that people stated they had the same issue, and that lock fixed it. Sorry, I can't be more specific, but I'm pretty sure this one has a resolution to it. You might want to contact M-audio support as well.

Hi Lips,

Thanks, I did sync them per instructions. I made sure the cable was a short SPDIF, and that the cards were daisy chained together, and that the clocks read "locked" in the patchbay. The ability of the card to use the SPDIF clock in may be a part of the problem, but I did sync them per the knowledge base's recommendations.

Yes, a call to MAudio is on the way today. Was hoping someone else ran into this and had the obvious answer. Thanks for response!

SMM

ORIGINAL: ohhey

You should be able to use 24bit just fine. I think those cards work best with WDM drivers if you are using ASIO you might try that. After you switch types you might need to close Sonar, delete the aud.ini file, and restart Sonar so it can rebuild the aud.ini.

Hey Ohhey,

I think the WDM drivers were installed by default. Will have to dig into that, not familiar with ASIO. I will try that when I get home tonight.

Thanks!

Hi Clydewinder,

See my notes:


A - install the latest drivers. in the m-audio control panel, set all cards to multiple card sync. that's the easy way. only works in winXP or better.

Yep, did all that. Went to the web and got the latest drivers. No difference in behavior from the drivers that came with the card.

B - the harder way is to set the first card to single and then run a spdif cable from card 1 to card 2 and tell card 2 to lock to spdif time clock.

Did that too. The ability to run 24 bit is lost once the SPDIF cable is installed and the cards are locked.

either way works, i have been using method A for 4 years with no problems. the m-audio knowledge base is out of date as is the owner's manual because the newer drivers work differently.

Well, even though you may not have solved my problem for me, it is encouraging to know that this is not a widespread problem and that there should be a technical solution.

Thank you sir!

i would just take the spdif cable off then and use multiple card sync. done.

and yes they do work better in WDM mode but either way they are useable.

ORIGINAL: Clydewinder

i would just take the spdif cable off then and use multiple card sync. done.

and yes they do work better in WDM mode but either way they are useable.

Could it be that easy? I wonder why the knowledge base suggests using single and in sync? I can try that too... right now I'm on holding waiting for Maudio tech support.

Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming!

Ok, just got off the phone with Maudio. Here's what they've suggested, which I'll try tonight:

- As Clydewinder also suggested, removing the SPDIF cable and running the cards as "Multi" should work on a PC platform (they claim it's more for a Mac system)
- He suggested switching to ASIO drivers, that they are better (I've seen some of the debates on that)
- Also trying creating a session in 24-bit with the Protools demo to see if that works

Hopefully that will do it. I'll let you know tonight.

Ohhey, you suggested that when I switch driver types, I should Exit Sonar, then I should delete the aud.ini file and restart... can you tell me where is that file located? I assume what it does is force the hardware profiler to run again as if it is the first time?

Thanks all!

ORIGINAL: SliverMeMembers

Ok, just got off the phone with Maudio. Here's what they've suggested, which I'll try tonight:

- As Clydewinder also suggested, removing the SPDIF cable and running the cards as "Multi" should work on a PC platform (they claim it's more for a Mac system)
- He suggested switching to ASIO drivers, that they are better (I've seen some of the debates on that)
- Also trying creating a session in 24-bit with the Protools demo to see if that works

Hopefully that will do it. I'll let you know tonight.

Ohhey, you suggested that when I switch driver types, I should Exit Sonar, then I should delete the aud.ini file and restart... can you tell me where is that file located? I assume what it does is force the hardware profiler to run again as if it is the first time?

Thanks all!

Try the other things first because I think WDM are best with that card. Anyway the aud.ini file is located in the Sonar program folder. Best I remember it's C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Sonar 6\aud.ini or just search for it in Windows explorer. You can delete it or rename it if you want to make a backup. Anyway when you delete that file the next time you start Sonar it acts just like a new install and goes and looks for drivers and rebuilds a new aud.ini file. In some cases a vaule will get "stuck" in the aud.ini that no loger applies when you make changes and that resets it to defaults plus the driver profile. It can fix many things but should be used as a last resort.

Ohhey,

Thanks again for the help, I think that may have been part of my problem, in retrospect. Even when I completely removed the Maudio drivers and h/w, AND removed and reinstalled Sonar 6, there were still some s/w remnants leftover from the first Sonar install. For example, when I reinstalled SOnar, it remembered my name and product serial number, and did not go back through and rescan the h/w like the first install, everything was already loaded as if I had never removed the components in the first place. Of course, I would rerun the audio profiler once I was in Sonar, but it didn't help. Maybe I need to delete the aud.ini file in order to clear out Sonar's "memory" of the audio driver support. Can't hurt to try it, good suggestion!

Thanks again!

ohHey!

Got it going! I did two things at once (I know, I know, change one thing at a time), I pulled the SPDIF cable and ran Internal OSC and Multi Card Sync on the 1010. Deleted the AUD file and restarted Sonar... worked like a charm!

Props to Clydewinder too!

Thanks a lot guys, you rock, hope I can return the favor sometime.

ORIGINAL: SliverMeMembers

ohHey!

Got it going! I did two things at once (I know, I know, change one thing at a time), I pulled the SPDIF cable and ran Internal OSC and Multi Card Sync on the 1010. Deleted the AUD file and restarted Sonar... worked like a charm!

Props to Clydewinder too!

Thanks a lot guys, you rock, hope I can return the favor sometime.

Very cool... now make some music

That's good news! those 1010s are a real workhorse; once their set up you'll forget they're there.

I thought the S/PDIF spec locked you in at 16bit not 24 bit.

that's why the clock through the driver works but as soon as you clock using the cable only 16 bit is available. Optical will allow 24 bit (&higher) but not S/PDIF. Again that's what I think. Could be wrong.

I've been down this path with my Delta 44 - it only works 24bit under WDM.... search for my thread on this.
-D

ORIGINAL: Clydewinder

That's good news! those 1010s are a real workhorse; once their set up you'll forget they're there.

HERE HERE!! That's the truth. My 10/10 has been so rock solid in XP X64, it's a wonderful product. 'Grats to M-Audio for making a solid product AND a solid driver.

For some reason S6 will not run the Delta's at 24 bit unless you have them setup to NOT use Multi card Sync in the Delta panel. If you change it to Single and Sync (I think, I am not in front of my macine right now), then it will let you go to 24 bit. That is with the latest drivers. If you use the .27, all is well wither way. I use BNC to lock the clocks.

At least that's what happened on my system.

Rob

hmm i have multi card sync and the newest drivers on mine, been using 24bit the whole time. i have also recorded 24bit/44.1khz over the SPDIF from my TC VoiceLive pedal and that worked too. WDM mode always.

is it sample rate dependent maybe? it's possible that there may have been some "driver residue" somewhere that was gumming up the works. who knows.