S5 Tempo Map: Global edit possible?

We have a MIDI arrangement whose starting tempo is 94 bpm. The tempo map of this song has several line drawn tempo changes which represent ritards and accelerandos....

The client wants to hear it in 90 bpm and 98 bpm also. Is there a way to enter the new tempos and let the ritards and accelerandos adjust to follow the new tempo settings.

We searched the manual and it seems that we will have to redraw all the tempo changes again....or maybe there is a way to globally edit the tempo map?

Thanks.

Vic

I asked exactly the same question.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=888655&mpage=1&key=󘽏
The only way to scale tempo in Sonar is Fit To Time.
I sent email to CW and got the answer from Tom Roussel.
--------------
As you know, there is no Scale Tempo command that lets you determine the new tempo by scaling. However, a little simple math will give you the new Thru time and you can use it in the Fit To Time command.

For example, suppose your song is currently at 106 BPM. You want to
increase it to 108 BPM. Since the increased tempo will mean a shorter
song length, and thus a sooner Thru time, you divide the current tempo
by the new tempo and multiply the result times the Current Thru time.
Lets say your song is exactly 60 seconds long at 106 BPM and you want
to
increase it to 108 BPM. What is the new Thru time?

(106/108) * 60s = 58.9s

If you want to decrease tempo, you swap the tempos and divide the new
tempo by the current tempo and still multiply the result times the
current Thru time.

(108/106) * 60s = 61.1s
--------------------

I understand all these calculations, but there is a problem. With above formulas we have results expressed in seconds. Fit To Time command requires HH:MM:SS:FF. From example above, if I have New Thru = 61.1 seconds, what do I have to enter in New Thru field in Fit To Time window?

Tom did not answer me this question. Strangely enough, in the web, there is absolutely no sign of a calculator for conversion between absolute time and SMPTE.

So, the question "How to scale tempos in Sonar?" remains unanswered.

ORIGINAL: Vovchik

I asked exactly the same question.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=888655&mpage=1&key=󘽏
The only way to scale tempo in Sonar is Fit To Time.
I sent email to CW and got the answer from Tom Roussel.
--------------
As you know, there is no Scale Tempo command that lets you determine the new tempo by scaling. However, a little simple math will give you the new Thru time and you can use it in the Fit To Time command.

For example, suppose your song is currently at 106 BPM. You want to
increase it to 108 BPM. Since the increased tempo will mean a shorter
song length, and thus a sooner Thru time, you divide the current tempo
by the new tempo and multiply the result times the Current Thru time.
Lets say your song is exactly 60 seconds long at 106 BPM and you want
to
increase it to 108 BPM. What is the new Thru time?

(106/108) * 60s = 58.9s

If you want to decrease tempo, you swap the tempos and divide the new
tempo by the current tempo and still multiply the result times the
current Thru time.

(108/106) * 60s = 61.1s
--------------------

I understand all these calculations, but there is a problem. With above formulas we have results expressed in seconds. Fit To Time command requires HH:MM:SS:FF. From example above, if I have New Thru = 61.1 seconds, what do I have to enter in New Thru field in Fit To Time window?

Tom did not answer me this question. Strangely enough, in the web, there is absolutely no sign of a calculator for conversion between absolute time and SMPTE.

So, the question "How to scale tempos in Sonar?" remains unanswered.

If your new Thru time is 61.1 seconds, that's written in SMPTE as 00:01:01:03. How did I know that? Simple ... 61.1 seconds is 1 minute, 1 second, and 1/10 of a second. Since there are 30 frames per second (generally) 1/10 of 30 is 3, so 1/10 of a second equals 3 frames. Therefore, 61.1 seconds is written 00:01:01:03 in SMPTE.

Hope that helps!

I would bet that someone could write a computer program to do that.

ORIGINAL: xackley

I would bet that someone could write a computer program to do that.

Start->Run->"calc"











kidding.

ORIGINAL: xackley

I would bet that someone could write a computer program to do that.

How about an Excel file?

I was thinking of the entire conversion process, not just converting the final results.

You mean something like this...

New Tempo

This is Virus free and comes with no warranties blah...blah...blah

If anyone has suggestions for improvement, let me know

Thanks Tom.

How about including a Scale Tempo feature for Sonar 7 along with the other MIDI and Staff/Notation improvements?

To Blindeddie

Please explain how to use it. I got message "The application failed to initialize properly (0x0000135). Click OK to terminate the application."

ORIGINAL: xackley

I would bet that someone could write a computer program to do that.

I think Sonar is a computer program, isn't it? Why Sonar itself can't do such a simple math?

Talk about help. This has to be one of the best forums around.

Best
John

It requires .NET 1.1 be installed on your computer which can be installed through Windows update or from this link.

.NET 1.1

sorry I didn't mention that before

I made a couple of changes...since Sonar reports song time in HH:MM:SS:FF, I changed it so the original length can be entered in that format. Pretty sure I have all the checks in place to make sure invalid values are not entered, but if anyone finds a problem, let me know.

here is the link New Tempo

Requires .NET 1.1, checked for Viruses, no warranty blah blah blah...

enjoy!!!

Thank you very much! I downloaded Frameworks, installed into my laptop, the one I'm sitting in front of right now. Your calculator works great!
Just one question before I install it on my DAW machine. Is Framework absolutely harmless for music applications? I know, it sounds overprotective, but... I spent quite a time tuning up my music PC, so... have to ask just in case.

It should not cause you any problems, basically it is a runtime package that allows you to run .NET applications. Kind of like the C++ runtime package required to run Sonar. I'm glad you find the program useful and if you have any questions or if you think it needs any enhancements, let me know.

I'm sorry to say that but NET Framework caused one problem. Next day after intalling Framework desktop toolbar dyed. START button, clock, all quick launch icons became unclickable. To turn computer off, I had to press Ctrl+Esc, then U etc.
Today I uninstalled Framework and toolbar now working again.

Hi Blindeddie,

Can you tweak your program so that it can run without the NET Framework. Don't want to install anything I don't really need in a DAW.

Thanks.

Vovchik, The .net framework should not have anything to do with the startmenu or quicklaunch items, so I am not quite sure what would have caused that problem. I have .net 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0 installed on my DAW and I have not experienced anyhting like that. What version of Windows is your machine running?

Vicsant. unfortunatly the program was built using .Net 1.1 so there is no way to "Tweak" it to not use .NET.


With that said...I will build an online version (webpage) that does the same thing. Give me a couple of days as work is a little busy.

With that said...I will build an online version (webpage) that does the same thing. Give me a couple of days as work is a little busy.

That's really great. Thank you very much!

it would be nice if you could high-lite the temp automation and just drag it up so it snaps to each bpm.

Blindeddie,

Thanks for your little .NET program. It works just fine!

OK, as promised, I have made an online version of the New Tempo program...you will find it here.

New Tempo Online

It is just html and JavaScript, so if you do not have Internet Access on your DAW, just save the page (File - SaveAs...) to a machine that does have internet access then put it on a floppy...did I just say floppy...or any media of your choice and transfer it to your DAW.

Note for IE users...for local copies of HTML files that contain Javascript Code, IE will warn you that it is blocking "Active Content" so you have to right click the alert bar at the top of the page and select "Allow Blocked Content" in order to use it that way.

Once again, this is virus free, no warranties blah blah blah. There is also limited validation, so it might break (or give incorrect results) if you were to put in a frames number greater than 30 etc.... I will work on beefing that up.

if you find this useful, let me know...or if you have any small utilities on your wish list...let me know as well, I will see what I can do.

Hi Blindeddie,

I tried your online version of New Tempo, and it doesn't seem to give me the same results as S5.

Here's what I did.

First, I saved the page as an .mht file on my desktop so that I could work offline.

My project is at 92 BPM, with original length of SMPTE 00.04.16.14.

I want a new project tempo to 87 BPM,(with all corresponding ritards to follow....)

I input these values into "New Tempo" and press "Calculate" which gives me a value of SMPTE 00.05.00.10

In Sonar's "Fit To Time" dialog box, I input this new SMPTE value of 00.05.00.10 as my "New Thru" and click "Tempo Map" to modify by changing......

When I click OK, S5 gives me a new tempo of 78.56 BPM which is quite far from 87 BPM.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks again.

Vic

.or if you have any small utilities on your wish list...let me know as well, I will see what I can do.

As a matter of fact....I do....

I lay down a midi piano track.

I'd like to extract just the highest notes of the track so that I could assign those notes to maybe a synth pad patch, or maybe an acoustic guitar patch on a seperate midi track.

I know that there is a split notes CAL, but if my midi piano track has 7 notes max, then that CAL would give me seven additional midi tracks, when all I need is one.

If it's not too much work, please consider a small utility for this.

Thanks again.

vicsant, your not doing anything wrong...looks like a calculation error on my part...I will get it fixed and make sure I test it properly before posting again.

sorry about that

OK, think I got it this time, but I need you to be my beta tester vicsant...if you don't mind.

online version here...

New Tempo online

program version here...

New Tempo

vicsant, give it a try and see if it is calcultaing better.

ORIGINAL: Blindeddie

OK, think I got it this time, but I need you to be my beta tester vicsant...if you don't mind.

online version here...

New Tempo online

program version here...

New Tempo

vicsant, give it a try and see if it is calcultaing better.

You got it! Sonar's Fit To Time gives me a new tempo 0f 86.99 which is pretty darn close to 87.00

...would it be too much work if you also give us an option to input in M:B:T along with the SMPTE option?

Thanks again for a great utility!

Peace.