new to sonar home studio

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november
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2006/12/09 04:49:06 (permalink)

new to sonar home studio

hello,
i just bought sonar home studio a few days ago and don't have a lot of experience on using sequenzer programs.
i actually didn't have any problems with recording audio and so on, but there is one thing i just can not figure out: i want to have a midi drum track going underneath the guitar but i can only use the "standard" drum kit from the drum map manager. so when i'm in the piano-roll window i can just paste the sounds from the standard kit.
but aren't there a lot more drum, shaker, bongo sounds to use up in the menu? i just can't find out how to paste those!!!
this is quite complicated to post....so if anybody could help me that wound be great!
thanks,
november
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    jamesg1213
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/09 05:18:37 (permalink)
    Hi,

    You should have the 'Edirol' softsynth - click on 'view synth rack' > click the 'plus' symbol' and you should see Edirol in the choices - clicking that will give you a MIDI track with Edirol set up, then you can get to several drum kits and the percussion kit as well. Then click 'view piano roll' to get the PRV for that MIDI track and away you go (hopefully, I'm doing this from memory at work!)

    If you haven't used softsynths before you need to do the tutorials - try this (kindly supplied by Daveny5 to many other people!)

    Load Tutorial1.cwp and follow these instructions:
    1) View-Synth Rack
    2) Click the Insert DXi button (looks like an asterisk)
    3) Click on Edirol VSC - Check First Synth Output and Synth Property Page checkboxes
    4) Edit Select All (to select all tracks)
    5) Track-Property-Output
    6) Select Edirol VSC from the MIDI Outputs pulldown (that makes the Edirol VSC the output for all MIDI tracks)
    7) Hit play

    James

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    #2
    november
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/09 06:01:57 (permalink)
    hey,

    thanks that already helped a lot.
    but now i'm asking myself, if it isn't possible to make your own beats without having to use the pre-made patterns.
    cause if i for example punch in some bongos and then go down into the piano-roll and paste some things, than they appear either further down or up...would it be possible to have all different sounds on the side like with using the complete drum kit and then just pasting whatever you want, without patterns?
    so are all the instruments from the drop-down above just patterns and not different snare-sounds for example?

    november
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    jamesg1213
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/09 06:45:46 (permalink)
    Absolutely, that's what I meant when I mentioned Edirol - once you have that open, and the piano roll open for that track, using the 'paint-brush' icon in piano roll you can choose any of the drums sounds by clicking the keys on the piano keyboard and 'paint' individual sounds onto the piano roll.

    So you're then creating your own beats rather than using drum loops, which is what it sounds like you've been using yes?

    James

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



    Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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    november
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/09 09:56:08 (permalink)
    sorry that i'm maybe slow in learning, but i just can't get the individual sounds onto the keyboard in the edirol track. i did all the steps you told me and also read the tutorial, but if i open it the only thing it plays are piano sounds...
    do i chose the individual sounds from the dropdown above in which all the patterns are?
    and when i open the edirol, two tracks are generated, one is DXi and the other just a midi. which one do i use?
    maybe its difficult cause i'm using it in german and not in english, so the tools are named different.
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    RobertB
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/09 09:56:29 (permalink)
    Just to elaborate on what James is saying, you can select different patches in Edirol for your drums.
    In the Track Pane, set the Bank to 15360-GM2 Drum Set. Then you will have several drum patches to choose from in the Patch drop-down menu.
    You can also use the pencil tool in Piano Roll to punch in individual drum hits. All the drums are labeled for you on the left side of the piano roll.
    You can do this in a single MIDI track. You don't absolutely have to use the drum map.
    Edit:
    November, your last post came in while I was typing. Wie geht es einen?
    Everything but the Drums will default to a Piano when you open Edirol. Select Channel 10 in the Channel of the MIDI track. That will put you in the drums. Set the Input of the MIDI track to Omni for now.
    The DXi track is the Synth itself. You will see the meters move in this when sound is produced.
    The MIDI track is where you actually enter your notes, and you will only see recorded data on this track.
    post edited by RobertB - 2006/12/09 10:27:28

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    november
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/09 10:17:54 (permalink)
    yeeeessss i'm almost there i think
    ok, now i got the drums to my left, they work and that is cool
    now i'm asking myself: in the patch-dropdown there were a lot of things to chose from which were labled for example "electronic..." "power..."
    are those different sounds which i can also use? cause when i tried to select one of them nothing changed on the keyboard. (the sounds i have on the keyboard are the ones with the voice shouting one, two, three and so on).
    this forum is great! thank you so much!!!
    mir geht es gut.
    november
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    RobertB
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/09 10:29:31 (permalink)
    It sounds like you you need to set your keyboard to send MIDI to the computer. Ideally, you would want Channel 10 for the drums, but with the Input of the MIDI track set to Omni, a signal on any channel should trigger the drums.
    You get drums from the computer speakers when you punch in notes using your mouse, right?
    Yes, those labels are for different drum sets. Many of them are similar, but there are different sounds in each one.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    november
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/10 11:27:57 (permalink)
    back again and still no change....if i load my patch-drum sounds from the patch-dropdown, nothing changes in the piano roll window. what am i doing wrong?
    maybe i should just list the steps i make and maybe someone can find out if somethings wrong.

    1. open DXi and edirol-midi track with edit-DXisynth
    2. double click the edirol-midi track
    3. set the bank to GM2-drum set
    4. chose a patch (for example jazz number....)
    5. set the channel input and channel dropdown to channel 1 (???)
    6. set the output to edirol
    7. open the piano roll and try out by clicking on the keyboard to the left

    now if i change the patch number it should change the sound of the piano-roll keyboard, right?
    but nothing happens.
    i had the idea to use as edirol output my synth from the soundcard. but then i just get a whole list of different sounds, but NO DRUMS!
    i hope that i'm not just to stupid for this...getting started with sequenzer programs is a whole new learning process...
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    RobertB
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/10 12:10:12 (permalink)
    Don't worry november, you're not stupid, just a little confused.
    You should see something like this:

    Follow the track settings you see. In the Piano Roll, select the track you want to view(Red Arrow). This will be the MIDI track with the drums(in this case, Track #9). When you do that, you should see the drums listed by name instead of the keyboard on the left.
    Keep working on it. It does get easier.
    post edited by RobertB - 2006/12/10 12:29:21

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    november
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/10 13:50:02 (permalink)
    thanks a lot. the picture helps!
    my settings are a bit different than yours. you can chose all the input and output and patch stuff right beneath your track on the left side of the picture.
    i have to first open a window with a double click on the track...can i change this?
    also you selected your audio device. is that the input? cause i can only select different channel numbers there 1,2,3......omni and so on.
    i guess it all is quite logical in the end, so hopefully i'll understand it.
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    RobertB
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/10 14:15:50 (permalink)
    In your toolbar, click View. Check Views as Tabs. At the bottom of the screen you will see a Tab labeled Advanced. Click on that. This will show everything you see in the picture. You may need to increase the size of the Track Pane. Hover your cursor over the line that devides the tracks. It will change to 2 lines with up and down arrows. Left click on the line and drag it down some.
    That Audio Device is a generic USB driver for my keyboard. It is actually a USB/MIDI input, but the label is misleading. You can just see the OMN of Omni in that window. This is the same as what you are seeing.
    You're getting closer!

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    november
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/10 15:05:00 (permalink)
    ok i got the settings now and it looks just like on your picture, but for some reason the program doesn't let me access the patches. i can chose whichever i like, but the same sound stays on the same key.
    could it be that there's something wrong with my midi settings? there must be a reason why i can't use the patches.....
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    RobertB
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/10 16:57:41 (permalink)
    This is where it would be nice to be able to see your screen.
    When you hit a key, watch the meters in the Edirol GUI. Is the right one moving?
    If it is the right Channel(shown as Part in the GUI) your input is ok.
    Sometimes the variations from one patch to another can be subtle. Listen to the timbre of the kick drum or snare. You should hear differences, but it will usually be the same type of drum. Try the Orchestra patch. You should hear Timpani's in there.
    Make sure that nothing is going to the synth on the sound card. Double check that there isn't another MIDI track that is being triggered when you hit a key. Is the Input Echo button lit on only one MIDI track?

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    Beagle
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/10 17:01:23 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: november

    ok i got the settings now and it looks just like on your picture, but for some reason the program doesn't let me access the patches. i can chose whichever i like, but the same sound stays on the same key.
    could it be that there's something wrong with my midi settings? there must be a reason why i can't use the patches.....

    make sure when you're changing the patches you don't worry too much about what's in the Edirol VSC's property page - make sure the patch is changed on the track properties - that's what's important.

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    november
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/11 01:03:42 (permalink)
    oh-oh, i think that was the whole problem.
    when i switched a patch i always tried out for example the hi-whistle sound and that stays mostly the same ^_^''
    thanks a looooooooot for helping me!!!
    how is that with project 5...i read that it has a lot new material for synth stuff? cause maybe someday i'll reach a point where i need new sounds. is it worth it and is it easy to import the tracks/loops into sonar?
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    Beagle
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    RE: new to sonar home studio 2006/12/11 08:37:20 (permalink)
    I don't have P5, but I've heard a lot of good things about it. I don't think that I would buy P5 just for its sounds, tho, although I know that some folks HAVE done just that. there are a lot of other sounds available for purchase. A LOT. in fact, GPO is running a group buy right now that you can probably get GPO or JABB for only $139! I would love to have this myself!

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49704

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