what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes?

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batsbrew
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2015/03/19 15:37:07 (permalink)

what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes?

title says it all...
 
but simple scenario:
 
cassette tape stereo, originally recorded at +3, into modern DAW, 
with enough head room to do a decent master.
 
 
 
what levels are you guys using, or know about, for the proper input level?
 
K-14?

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    SongCraft
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    Re: what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes? 2015/03/19 18:16:31 (permalink)
    Recording tape playback to DAW? This I did ages ago, so long ago my memory is failing lol. I be concerned with headroom compared to recordings instruments straight to the DAW because excessive use of dynamic effects (maximizer) of 'Tape Recordings' will bring up the noise-floor i.e. tape hiss will be more noticeable particularly during the quieter parts and start/end of the song. Therefore, the level will need to be about -2 (DAW) pre-mastering, and with mastering use minimal processing (as explained)!   There is no straight up answer to exactly what level due to various reasons i.e. quality of tape machine and content captured. But of course there are noise reduction tools, I prefer to get is as best as possible (at the source)!.

    IIRC: Recording at high levels to tape actually minimizes noticeable hiss... levels recorded too low? Tape hiss will be noticeable, especially so just prior to start/end and during the quieter parts of the song.  That said, I prefer to record on tape fairly hot but just below the distortion/clipping, all instrument parts are carefully checked by isolating/soloing the track to see if the highest possible peak levels are fine, and I also listen for the lowest possible level to decide if comp/limiting (and probably the use of noise gate especially i.e. dist/Guitars),therefore, it's possible that pre-post processing will be required before I proceed.... Not all tape machines are equal i.e. some tape units (reel to reel) levels are +6 or +9, and of course all machines require regular maintenance. Hmmm, I guess that's why I eventually moved entirely to ITB (DAW) lol! However, guitars recorded on tape is cool, an effect in and of itself which is really nice. I love 2" tape (to heck with 1/4") but for what I do, not worth the costs/maintenance of using tape.
    #2
    Wouter Schijns
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    Re: what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes? 2015/03/19 20:02:36 (permalink)
    would just load as is, but prob a pro could advise better.
    don't know if there's anything to gain in that area (don't know if a recording gain/cut would be better than changing input gain on track in Sonar but I'd say better not to reduce input gain and make sure you have all audio waves from the tape to work with).
    Would you be getting more noise if you add gain in Sonar or on recording gain ? 
    If you finish the master, you could check the project gain structure is ok and maybe then reload the tape with adjusted level, I guess.
     
    #3
    ston
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    Re: what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes? 2015/03/20 05:34:57 (permalink)
    There is no standard definition as to what signal level starts to clip the input of an ADC (it's device-dependent).  So, as hot as you can get it without clipping would probably give you the best S/N ratio and dynamic range to play with.  Then you can simply drop the level in the DAW to give yourself some headroom for mastering purposes.
    post edited by ston - 2015/03/20 06:19:49
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    batsbrew
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    Re: what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes? 2015/03/20 10:02:11 (permalink)
    sounds like a plan...
     
    and also, like most folks just have to use their own better judgement to decide on levels,
    seems it's all over the place

    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
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    drewfx1
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    Re: what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes? 2015/03/20 11:52:31 (permalink)
    ston
    So, as hot as you can get it without clipping would probably give you the best S/N ratio and dynamic range to play with.



    In the case of tape, it has so much less dynamic range and more noise that it really doesn't matter as long as you aren't clipping. IOW, the source is limiting the dynamic range and S/N achievable - and not by a little.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
    #6
    savoy
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    Re: what LEVEL to bring analog stereo tape into DAW for mastering purposes? 2015/03/20 11:57:38 (permalink)
    batsbrew
    sounds like a plan...
     
    and also, like most folks just have to use their own better judgement to decide on levels,
    seems it's all over the place




    dude im ot here but just want to say you make awesome music!
    #7
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