John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 17:36:08
(permalink)
azslow3
John
azslow3
This thread is a good exercise for Hosts. "Newcomer" question, 2-3 reasonable answers and 50 offtop posts. Also it has popularity comparable with "My thoughts on SONAR “Everett” 
Its a good exercise for Hosts, how?
This thread has touched near every topic in the list of forum sections: from SONAR (well, not so much...), throw Hardware and Software down to Coffee House.
So, the question "where it should really be" is not so easy to answer.
Its very simple. The OP is finding it hard to learn Sonar. That is all its about. What other posters have to say hasn't changed that.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 17:45:46
(permalink)
John
Its very simple. The OP is finding it hard to learn Sonar. That is all its about. What other posters have to say hasn't changed that.
Sure, but it also looks like he/she/it/they doesn't want to learn about SONAR. There were plenty of people here primed and ready to help, but they can't help a no-show... Consider the antagonistic initial attitude, yet people were still ready to assist. I was hoping he/she/it/they would return and describe what the problem was because that might have been useful info for the new start screen, or maybe provided an idea for article or blog post. But I have no clue where the pain point come in, and it looks like I never will.
|
OldTimerNewComer
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 164
- Joined: 2011/02/24 14:03:28
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 18:29:56
(permalink)
Grumbleweed_
I just want to be in this thread.
Grum.
P.S. And now I'm in it I feel a little dirty.
ROFL!!!
Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory setting. AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video. Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software). WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4. Windows 10 Pro Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update ________________________________________ Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it. My Stuff: https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
|
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 19:34:42
(permalink)
So, what college courses use Sonar?
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 20:10:31
(permalink)
Anderton
John
Its very simple. The OP is finding it hard to learn Sonar. That is all its about. What other posters have to say hasn't changed that.
Sure, but it also looks like he/she/it/they doesn't want to learn about SONAR. There were plenty of people here primed and ready to help, but they can't help a no-show...
Consider the antagonistic initial attitude, yet people were still ready to assist. I was hoping he/she/it/they would return and describe what the problem was because that might have been useful info for the new start screen, or maybe provided an idea for article or blog post. But I have no clue where the pain point come in, and it looks like I never will.
True. I just choose to look at it with some charity of spirit. We know nothing about the OP except who ever it is is having a hard time getting to grips with a very powerful program. We don't know how mature the OP is. The OP could be a kid that is frustrated by a very daunting prospect. Where to start? I have been thinking about the new Sonar and the depth it has. I take it in stride because its only a bit more to examine and learn. A new user is in a very different situation. We know about digital audio. Most of us know about MIDI. If these are totally new concepts to someone I shutter to think how I would have to deal with it at this point in time. To you and me its very old hat. Heck we can argue about sample rates without looking foolish. What about those people that have never heard the term sample rate? In the end we gain a lot by having an open mind about a single post even if it turns out to be trolling by showing the world just what sort of forum we really are. Where are values truly show. If it is meant to bash Sonar there will always be time to deal with that. Besides you and I are hosts. People charged with making the forums a welcoming place. We can do this by holding in abeyance any opinion that would need more evidence. I do feel silly explaining this to you my hero. It is my view on this and I believe in it.
|
OldTimerNewComer
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 164
- Joined: 2011/02/24 14:03:28
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 20:21:02
(permalink)
John
Anderton
John
Its very simple. The OP is finding it hard to learn Sonar. That is all its about. What other posters have to say hasn't changed that.
Sure, but it also looks like he/she/it/they doesn't want to learn about SONAR. There were plenty of people here primed and ready to help, but they can't help a no-show...
Consider the antagonistic initial attitude, yet people were still ready to assist. I was hoping he/she/it/they would return and describe what the problem was because that might have been useful info for the new start screen, or maybe provided an idea for article or blog post. But I have no clue where the pain point come in, and it looks like I never will.
True. I just choose to look at it with some charity of spirit. We know nothing about the OP except who ever it is is having a hard time getting to grips with a very powerful program. We don't know how mature the OP is. The OP could be a kid that is frustrated by a very daunting prospect. Where to start?
I have been thinking about the new Sonar and the depth it has. I take it in stride because its only a bit more to examine and learn. A new user is in a very different situation. We know about digital audio. Most of us know about MIDI. If these are totally new concepts to someone I shutter to think how I would have to deal with it at this point in time.
To you and me its very old hat. Heck we can argue about sample rates without looking foolish. What about those people that have never heard the term sample rate?
In the end we gain a lot by having an open mind about a single post even if it turns out to be trolling by showing the world just what sort of forum we really are. Where are values truly show.
If it is meant to bash Sonar there will always be time to deal with that.
Besides you and I are hosts. People charged with making the forums a welcoming place. We can do this by holding in abeyance any opinion that would need more evidence.
I do feel silly explaining this to you my hero. It is my view on this and I believe in it.
I just don't go into a thread expecting a spoofer/troll/whatever, at THIS forum. There is SO MUCH useful info here. I just hope the limited info I am able to contribute helps SOMEONE, if not the OP. Mel
Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory setting. AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video. Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software). WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4. Windows 10 Pro Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update ________________________________________ Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it. My Stuff: https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 21:14:58
(permalink)
John
I just choose to look at it with some charity of spirit. We know nothing about the OP except who ever it is is having a hard time getting to grips with a very powerful program. We don't know how mature the OP is. The OP could be a kid that is frustrated by a very daunting prospect. Where to start?
Besides you and I are hosts. People charged with making the forums a welcoming place. We can do this by holding in abeyance any opinion that would need more evidence.
Well, my first post in the thread was: Just remember that SONAR has the equivalent functionality of a recording studio that if it was hardware, would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars not all that long ago. That's a lot of gear! And they had engineers to run it. The first crucial step is to connect the interface to your computer and make sure SONAR recognizes it. Not much is going to happen until that's sorted out. My second one was in response to those who were upset that not everyone was "welcoming," and explaining perhaps why that was the case: I think the problem is that entering with a negative tone about needing a "college course" and calling SONAR a "monstrosity" when it's actually a sophisticated and well thought out piece of software kinda gets peoples' dander up. Those who come in simply asking for help, instead of making negative value judgments about a program they clearly know little about, are more likely to get a positive reception. Also, previous "one post + agenda" people do very similar posts, which muddies the waters for legitimate users. I've been fooled a few times. That said, I agree that he needs more time to cool down and re-enter the dialog if he does actually does want to learn the program. Later on, when the lack of dialog became palpable, the thread veered off into a direction that took into account that he appeared to have just done a "vent dump" then left. No point worrying about someone who's not around any more. But consider this. I really do appreciate your wanting to show kindness, but the sad fact is that I'm not sure all people are assets to the forum. Granted, there have been plenty of people who made a similar entrance, saw that help was on the way, got things sorted out eventually, and have become contributors to our "group consciousness." There are others who are never satisfied, and come here simply to vent or promote some pet agenda. Yet even those people can make a positive contribution via constructive (and admittedly, sometimes not-so-constructive) criticisms, but not all do. If someone truly has their mind made up and a "don't confuse me with the facts" mindset, they will not benefit the forum, or those who come here to learn how to get the most out of SONAR and how to make better music. If they don't come back, I don't think it's any great loss. Had he stayed, I would have recommended downloading Propellerheads' free Figure and Take apps, along with TASCAM's free recording app. They all teach the basics of what's brought to fruition in SONAR, and make Garageband look like rocket science. But if he's not motivated enough to learn, then it's not surprising if a forum isn't motivated to teach. One time I was with Chuck Surack (head of Sweetwater) who was extremely distressed because a customer claimed to have had a bad experience. Chuck had tried everything to satisfy the customer. After hearing the chain of events, I realized Chuck was dealing with someone who would never, ever be satisfied. My advice was to recognize that you can't make things right if a person doesn't want things to be right. I'm not saying for sure that's what happened here, but clearly, people were offering help and for whatever reason the OP did not avail himself of it.
|
Doktor Avalanche 
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 21:27:23
(permalink)
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/03 21:53:07
(permalink)
We are pretty much on the same page Craig. Its a good page to be on.
|
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 00:33:03
(permalink)
Anderton
Chuck had tried everything to satisfy the customer. After hearing the chain of events, I realized Chuck was dealing with someone who would never, ever be satisfied. My advice was to recognize that you can't make things right if a person doesn't want things to be right.
"My customer is always right. But, YOU are not my customer."
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 02:27:47
(permalink)
I reckon the OP is watching from afar and thinking it didn't take much.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
TomHelvey
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 537
- Joined: 2013/02/26 20:23:54
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 03:00:58
(permalink)
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
So, what college courses use Sonar?
Berklee might have one. I know they cover a few specific DAWs. In reply to the OP: Learning any DAW is a daunting experience, especially if you don't have a tech background. Craig was correct in his characterization of Sonar as a complete studio, it's like the head engineer of a major studio handing the keys to the door and telling you "Good luck, make sure you lock up when you're done". The simplest possible approach: 1. Make sure your audio interface works. 2. Verify that Sonar can see it. 3. Add an audio track and set its input to where you have your mic connected. 4. Hit record on the track and set your record level, -12 to -18 Db is a reasonable level on the record meter. 5. Hit the record button and play your part. The rest is up to you. It'll probably take you around 10 years to get up to speed, that's normal.
post edited by TomHelvey - 2015/07/04 03:18:52
System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro PCIe: UAD Octo USB: MOTU midi express 128, OB-6 Module, Akai MPK-249, Moog SUB 37, Antelope Orion 32 HD, Softube Console 1, iLok, eLicenser DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc. https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helvey
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 19:10:49
(permalink)
Three pages and still going.. good work everyone...
There's actually some excellent information and funny stuff here so it's a good thread compaired to some.
I think if the OP did return we might have scared them off by now.. after all, how could you reply to this.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 19:30:51
(permalink)
Cactus Music
Three pages and still going.. good work everyone...
There's actually some excellent information and funny stuff here so it's a good thread compaired to some.
I think if the OP did return we might have scared them off by now.. after all, how could you reply to this.
The same way that other people did when they got off to a bad start..."Okay, I've cooled off now, I'm really not a troll and I've tried to get things working but I still have some questions..." If I read this thread I'd think there are a bunch of people who are sympathetic to my cause but I kinda did a faux pas upon entering this thread, so I'd reboot and try again. Or, register under a different name 
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 20:18:15
(permalink)
It is a pretty innocuous and harmless first post. I have to say if I hadn't had any previous DAW experience when I first installed Sonar I would have been pretty much in the same boat. And recording audio was pretty much the ONLY thing I managed to figure out that first night.
I don't even think I figured out how to use the input echo to monitor what I was doing. I just armed the track, hit the record button, noodled a bit and sure enough it produced a wave. The rest of it was all "huuuwhaaaaa????"
That said I knew it was going to be a challenge so tossed my crotch berries right into the thick of it (and this forum) until I could actually do some more useful stuff. It was infuriating though because I had recorded and mixed mountains of material in my old DAW. Very different workflow/environment. Worth the effort though.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 20:18:15
(permalink)
Now if I could just figure out how to work the forum... lulz. Dupe-ty dupe dupe doo waaaahhhhh...
post edited by Beepster - 2015/07/04 20:25:17
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 20:21:46
(permalink)
If the OP registered with a real email can shoot them a PM and let them know a hundred folks are hanging around waiting to help them out.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
ShellstaX
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 502
- Joined: 2014/03/18 11:01:37
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 22:40:55
(permalink)
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/04 23:47:07
(permalink)
I"m currently talking with a school in India that wants to use SONAR as its default DAW for recording courses. Apparently they need something really versatile that runs on Windows.
|
ShellstaX
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 502
- Joined: 2014/03/18 11:01:37
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 00:01:33
(permalink)
Anderton
I"m currently talking with a school in India that wants to use SONAR as its default DAW for recording courses. Apparently they need something really versatile that runs on Windows.
What's to stop them doing so? ... or ... are they after e.g, - using your name / expertise e.g, courseware creation - discount pricing, and/or for students - a spot on Cakewalk's homepage - Official endorsement ???
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 06:55:46
(permalink)
Anderton
Granted, there have been plenty of people who made a similar entrance, saw that help was on the way, got things sorted out eventually, and have become contributors to our "group consciousness."
I tend to think of us as a collective and yeah, we have all been assimilated
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
sycle1
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 122
- Joined: 2003/11/05 21:03:14
- Location: Australia
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 07:20:03
(permalink)
Well back in the old days you could quote RTFM or USTFSE but I guess with all the crack heads and ice heads around nowadays maybe they need a nursery for musical drug heads that wanna record.
People are so impatient these days.
I can remember when Gibson's didn't tune themselves.
In the days before digital tuners and robot guitars, Maybe a tuning fork was a harsh learning curve for me!
I can still tune manually way quicker than a robot.
Cheers sycle1 There is no cure for stupidity, I should know!!!
|
g_randybrown
Max Output Level: -40 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3522
- Joined: 2003/12/24 11:30:04
- Location: Las Cruces, NM, USA
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 11:46:31
(permalink)
Beepster-That said I knew it was going to be a challenge so tossed my crotch berries right into the thick of it (and this forum) until I could actually do some more useful stuff. crotch berries...I gotta remember that one...I learn a new term here almost every day between you and yorolpal
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 11:53:35
(permalink)
ShellstaX
Anderton
I"m currently talking with a school in India that wants to use SONAR as its default DAW for recording courses. Apparently they need something really versatile that runs on Windows.
What's to stop them doing so?
Nothing, but they'd like a teacher's guide and hopefully, some training to jump start the process.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 12:00:16
(permalink)
g_randybrown
Beepster-
That said I knew it was going to be a challenge so tossed my crotch berries right into the thick of it (and this forum) until I could actually do some more useful stuff.
crotch berries...I gotta remember that one...I learn a new term here almost every day between you and yorolpal
HTH ;-p
|
rwheeler
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 89
- Joined: 2008/04/07 20:25:02
- Location: Vermont
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 15:58:36
(permalink)
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 22:40:54
(permalink)
sycle1
I can still tune manually way quicker than a robot.
Just a funny aside to that...I joined Gibson right after MinETune was introduced. I thought it would be cool to find someone who could tune faster than the robot tuning, sort of a "Kasparov Beats IBM Computer!" thing. So I proposed a "Beat the Robot" contest at Frankfurt Musikmesse where anyone who could tune faster than MinETune would get a Les Paul Standard. Seven guitars were all detuned by the same amount. Six didn't have MinETune, one did. IIRC we ran six contests per day for three days, but it was kind of a fail because nobody ever did beat the robot, even though quite a few of the contestants assured us they could. Eventually we gave up, and let whoever came closest win the guitar. We did it again at NAMM and again at Frankfurt, but no one has ever been able to tune faster than MinETune. The new G Force is faster, so I don't know if we'll ever find someone who can "beat the robot."
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 22:42:24
(permalink)
rwheeler
I suspect the original poster was frustrated with the complexity rather than seeking advice about college. However, taking posts at face value is not out of the question. In fact, college courses are not hypothetical solutions.
This is really great info. Too bad it will likely get lost in this thread. I'll alert the Bakers to this, maybe it's time for addition to the web site. Thanks for your diligence!
|
jih64
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
- Total Posts : 797
- Joined: 2014/01/30 20:59:40
- Location: Studio One 3
- Status: offline
Re: what college course is required to learn how to use this monstrosity
2015/07/05 23:09:01
(permalink)
Anderton
so I don't know if we'll ever find someone who can "beat the robot."
I doubt that you ever will, I have never seen one in real life, only in a video clip, and well, good luck with that. Don't know that I am a fan of it, the robotune, but I think it's just something that bucks against tradition, hence the 'traditionalists' aren't keen on it, and it will either fade away into the past, or maybe one day become 'tradition' itself.
|