Helpful Replywhere is TAP TEMPO in X3d?

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djoni
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2014/03/05 02:08:57 (permalink)

where is TAP TEMPO in X3d?

Had a short cut to it and now I can't find it...


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#1
petgod1
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 02:22:01 (permalink)
You need to use - Process>Fit Improvisation.
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scook
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 02:24:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby djoni 2014/03/07 04:16:47
Project > Insert Tempo Change brings up the dialog. Create the keyboard shortcut of your choice.
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 04:29:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby djoni 2014/03/07 04:17:38
Or download Drummer's Metronome for your smartphone :O) After I got it, I stopped worrying about trying to click a mouse in time. Seriously - a great app (free).

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gswitz
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 07:18:02 (permalink)
scook
Project > Insert Tempo Change brings up the dialog. Create the keyboard shortcut of your choice.

 
Scook is always on it... here is another way.
 
Click Views > Tempo
 
In this view at the top there is a tool bar with 4 icons... +, -, and two others. the one on the right is Tempo List. Make sure the Tempo List is displayed by clicking the button (it appears on the right).
 
Now, Click the + button (a dialog will open) and tap your tempo.
 
Kinda convoluted but it works. You have to hit the start playback button before you hit the plus if you want to hear the playback while you tap.
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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petgod1
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 07:51:33 (permalink)
I've never used that mouse driven option myself. I find it easier to input a 4 beat click to the song via my midi keyboard then do a Fit Improvisation.
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brundlefly
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 12:21:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/03/05 19:48:49
petgod1
I've never used that mouse driven option myself. I find it easier to input a 4 beat click to the song via my midi keyboard then do a Fit Improvisation.

 
I think the point is to set a new project's tempo by feel before anything is recorded.
 
But while we're discussing options, here's my preferred alternative to tapping:
 
- Disable Stop at Project End in Track View Options if it isn't already so you can run the transport in an empty project.
- Start playback with no click sounding, count off a couple-few measures in your head, and stop the transport on the next downbeat.
- Shift+M to open Set Measure/Beat At Now, and enter that measure and beat.
- SONAR will set the tempo to make the specified beat fall on the absolute Now time where you stopped the transport.
 
This gives very accurate results in a new project with low latency where the transport start/stop is almost instantaneous. Note that SONAr will also insert a matching tempo at the beat you set. It won't matter unless you go changing tempos later, but you can delete it if necessary.
 
This works especially well when setting a tempo for someone else. You can just ask them to count or beat a tempo and start/stop the transport on their count.

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Lynn
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 12:41:19 (permalink)
Though unofficial, Duckbar has a handy tap-tempo tool in its toolbar.

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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 14:05:30 (permalink)
@brundlefly ... thanks for the tip, I'm definitely going to try that. I've always had trouble getting good results using the mouse to tap the tempo.

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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 19:50:04 (permalink)
I like that, Brundlefly. Nice one!

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/05 22:11:46 (permalink)
I ranted about how the tap tempo feature was made more difficult to use in X1... I think it was X1.  I use my iPhone but I still can't believe that Cakewalk lost it (or made it four freakin' mouse clicks away...)  I use it ALL the time when I have a client in and we're developing a new song.  I'm used to not using Cakewalk for it now but...  ...it's right there on the toolbar in 8.5...  so they went backwards on that one.

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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/06 12:09:03 (permalink)
bump for a step backwards burying the tap tempo in the menus. :( That's the second thing you do after, ' what's the name of this one'.... 'about how fast' , keep tappin and singin, I'll get to the tap tempo in a bit. As for clicking with the mouse, they register when you let up on the clicker as opposed to when you click down. So try to be steady when letting up on your mouse for a better tempo measurement.
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denverdrummer
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/06 12:20:57 (permalink)
I really wish they would redesign and consolidate the metronome tools.  I don't like the fact you have separate screen for "project -> insert tempo change" or going to the preferences screen for count in and such.  I also have gone to using a smartphone metronome to figure out tempos, I find it's much more accurate and less frustrating.
 
As mentioned above if you use the mouse, you definitely have to subdivide, and press and release in 1/8th or 16th notes, which makes it really difficult if you're trying to set tempo on an odd meter or triple meter.  In 7/8 time  you would have to click 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+ in 16ths.  Way easier to set on my smartphone metronome, where I could tap a pulse like 1-2-1-2-1-2-3  accenting all the 1's.
 
In fairness, I'm not aware of other DAW's that have any less problems, but I at least wish they would consolidate things.

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brundlefly
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/06 13:21:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby denverdrummer 2014/03/06 14:25:05
4/4 Time: Space, <-2-3-4-2-2-3-4->Space, Shift+M, 3, Tab, 1, Enter, W
 
7/8 Time: Space, <-2-3-4-5-6-7-2-2-3-4-5-6-7->Space, Shift+M, 3, Tab, 1, Enter, W
 
Look, Ma... no mouse! 
 
Bind Set Measure/Beat at Now to a single hotkey (S is conveniently close to all of Tab, 1, 3, and W), and you're really cookin' with gas!
 
 
 

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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/06 14:27:08 (permalink)
Thanks Bundle!  So much to learn, so little time. :)

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neirbod
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/06 15:03:22 (permalink)
brundlefly
4/4 Time: Space, <-2-3-4-2-2-3-4->Space, Shift+M, 3, Tab, 1, Enter, W
 
7/8 Time: Space, <-2-3-4-5-6-7-2-2-3-4-5-6-7->Space, Shift+M, 3, Tab, 1, Enter, W
 
Look, Ma... no mouse! 
 
Bind Set Measure/Beat at Now to a single hotkey (S is conveniently close to all of Tab, 1, 3, and W), and you're really cookin' with gas!
 

 
Nice tip!  Thanks.

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djoni
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/07 04:21:04 (permalink)
Thank you guys!


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petgod1
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/07 07:42:27 (permalink)
I play in a couple of bands, one as a duo using a full backing track minus my guitar parts and the other band using a click track on the left channel for the drummer and a mono mix on the right channel to the PA. When I am working on a midi file for a backing track, the first thing that I do is import the song file. I then look for a consistent tempo that can be set so that bars and beats align. When this is not the case I revert to playing the song and using my midi Kawai keyboard, tapping in a click on a new midi track and then using it as the source for 'Fit to improvisation' which adjusts the tempo of the 4/4 click to keep the bars in line with the original song. With that done, my click track is deleted. Once I've finished programming all the midi tracks I can delete the original song and usually at this stage edit the tempo track to one consistent average tempo before bouncing everything down to an audio track. This has been a reliable way of working for me and I would shudder at the thought of using my mouse to input the clicks. It's a breeze once you get used to it.
Pete.
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mettelus
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/07 08:03:32 (permalink)
Brundlefly has some of the coolest tricks!

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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/07 15:28:39 (permalink)
petgod1
When this is not the case I revert to playing the song and using my midi Kawai keyboard, tapping in a click on a new midi track and then using it as the source for 'Fit to improvisation' which adjusts the tempo of the 4/4 click to keep the bars in line with the original song.



Peter, you should look into using Set/Measure Beat at Now for this as well. It's fast, precise and flexible (you can map intermediate note values where things are changing quickly or nothing for several measures where they aren't), and you're creating the tempo map directly from the audio instead of introducing another layer of inaccuracy in trying to create a matching click track by playing along; you're going tend to play an average tempo around what's actually there when you do that.

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brundlefly
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/07 15:30:11 (permalink)
mettelus
Brundlefly has some of the coolest tricks!


Thanks much, Michael. I'm particularly fond of this one. 

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b rock
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/07 19:54:40 (permalink)
Big props on creativity, Brundlefly.  I will try that one out when the need arises.
 
I'm not a huge user of tap tempo, but it seems to me that MIDI Learn capability is a glaring omission here.  Even the long-dead Project5 featured external control over tempo.  Tap in a few select notes, or use Digital Meter to create a CC envelope.  I have an MPX1 with an envelope follower that effectively converts audio into a MIDI controller message.
 
A few chunka-chunks on the guitar and I'm right there.
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petgod1
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/08 07:20:46 (permalink)
Well there's a new one for me to try. Anything that sounds easier and saves time is always gonna get my attention. This is exactly why I came to this forum. Thanks.
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petgod1
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/08 10:42:32 (permalink)
Ok, 'help' is not clear on using Set/Measure Beat at Now on an audio track or did I miss something? Please give us a clue on how to start without getting the 'unable to specify....' pop up, or a link to a decent help file. Thanks.
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gswitz
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/08 19:29:45 (permalink)
PetGod1, This is a confusing message to me to.
 
It can happen if it it is not logical what you are trying to do. For example you set measure 2 beat 1 to start at 5 seconds. Then you re-do it to start at 4 seconds. You can't change it without deleting the first mark, right? or you would be setting measure 2 beat 1 in two different places.
 
So, to fix this open up the Tempo view and delete the extra entries from the tempo list on the right (you might have to click the right most tool bar button to see the list). Then you can set measure 2 beat 1 at 4 seconds without getting the error.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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brundlefly
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/08 20:12:16 (permalink)
Peter, take a look at this post to get started. 
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2922802
 
The exact steps depend on the material, and how variable the tempo is. Working with freely-recorded MIDI is especially easy because you can easily spot the note that's on the beat you want to Set, and you get perfect accuracy by tabbing to the note start. With audio it can take a little more time to figure out which transient is the one you need to Set, and getting the Now time right on the transient if Audiosnap didn't do a good job of detecting it. I tend not to use it as much as I should, but scrubbing may be helpful in either case.

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petgod1
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/09 11:38:42 (permalink)
Yeah, as I said in my post, I am working with and Audio file and have so far never needed to sync to an improvised midi track. As a test I brought in one of my own tracks so that I knew what BPM result I was looking for. OK, so maybe I am being very dumb and missing something but where do I find a step by step explanation of what to do. Bar one of the song starts exactly at bar one then obviously runs out of sync because the tempo is incorrect. More importantly, where should I have found this step by step 'Set Measure at Beat' explanation. Do you try to extract the beats in audiosnap first and if so where does that get mentioned. I've always maintained that a help file should NEVER be written by the programmer as they tend to assume too much. How many times have you typed in a keyword only to get no results yet you know it's there somewhere? As my earlier post stated, I was trying to sync bars to an imported mp3 song that was not played with a click/metronome.
Pete.
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/09 14:12:03 (permalink)
It works that same way, but you're tabbing to transients instead of MIDI notes (and maybe having to tweak the Now time to get right on the attack in some cases). Here's another thread specifically referencing audio. The OP never responded back, but I have a project with his audio that demonstrates the outcome of the steps I outlined in the post if you want  to see it. Note that this post was in the old SONAR forum, so the command was Ctrl+M instead of Shift+M
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2943794
 
 

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petgod1
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/09 14:40:49 (permalink)
brudlefly, you are a great help and thank you. I will follow that step by step explanation as posted and let you know how I got on. I did mess around with audiosnap previously and found that by the time I'd messed about with the disables and promotes, I'd rthought that four minutes recording a tap tempo was the way to go. BTW I was just reminded by an experienced fellow Sonar user that it is so easy to let the technicalities distract you from your creativity and I am so guilty of that . And  further brudlefly, as a platinum member (and without creating a new post), is there a place where we can submit our songs for critical comment from the obviously well experienced members here?
Thanks. Pete
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brundlefly
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Re: where is TAP TEMPO in X3d? 2014/03/09 14:50:19 (permalink)
Tell me about it. Obviously one does not get to 8k+ posts while making music. 
 
Songs forum: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Songs-f27.aspx

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