which is middle C, C4 or C5 ?

Hi, Infinitude,

This may sound stupid but I was just wondering which one is middle C ? they say C4 is the middle C.

Who are "they"? C4 is "Middle C" in Western music. Ref: Middle C

NOTICE, however, that this page also states that Middle C can be KEYBOARD specific and that some boards my use C5 as Middle C.

but I noticed when I was in the staff view layout of cakewalk the middle C is C5. it is like an octave higher then. so, if I print the sheet music from cakewalk and play it in a standard keyboard will it be one octave higher ? pls somebody enlighten me on this matter...thanks a lot.

What kind of keyboard are you using and what is it's set up? Are you certain that you are playing C4 on your keyboard (sorry...had to ask!). When you play C4 on your keyboard - are you monitoring what the synth in the MC is playing and does it sound like C4 or C5? Are you using softsynths in your sound card or using a plug in?

How are you "noticing" that Middle C is C5 in staff view? Are you playing MIDI data on your keyboard and capturing it in MC, then opening Staff view and showing that it is recorded as C5?

Try opening the MIDI event data and verify that you are actually sending C4 from your keyboard instead of C5. That way you know what data you are actually sending to MC.

There are a lot of questions you've left unanswered before you can get very much help. Let us know more about exactly what's happening and we'll try to help you.

Hmm. Hadn't noticed in Piano Roll view that "middle C" is notated as C5, but since some keyboards list C5 as middle, I guess the software is allowed to take liberties like that as well. If you are entering the MIDI data in Piano Roll view, then I would just suggest you entering the data at the specific note you want instead of allowing CW to dictate where middle C should be played.

Someone else might have a better suggestion for you, but since you've already entered MIDI data, you can transpose what you have 1 octave lower.

Sorry I wasn't more help.

AHEM.....

And you see something WRONG with having a 0th exit?! If it comes BEFORE the 1st mile, then why would that be a problem?

Beagle
aka Reece Bain
Electronics Engineer, Sr.

Post Thought: come to think of it, I'm betting my Yamaha has C3 listed as middle as well. I just hadn't thought much about it.

LOL! Yup, fun it is!

Yeah but which one is vitamin C ?

I C. Greg

Needs intensive care^

I ran a few tests, and Infinitude, I think you're trying to over-engineer this [ with no offense intended for Beagle.]

A. - I manually entered a middle C in staff view and compared the pitch to my keyboard. [They matched]

B. - Then I recorded a MIDI middle C from my keyboard into MC - It came out a Middle C in staff view

and of course the pitch of A and B matched.

ALSO of course MC is showing all these middle C's in the Piano Roll View as C5.

You're getting confused because you know MUSIC. The C5 designation for middle C is a creation of the computer programers who found that Midi could go at least two octive lower than conventional music. Instead of leaving Middle C designated as C4 they did what most techies do .. started from the first C in their scale, which was I guess two octives lower than the C1 on a piano. Of course one of their C's on the way up "had" to be designated C0 - and while Beethoven just rolled over one more time, that's what diehard computer people do. Remember too, that many of these people had no Music training and they approached it scientifically - Which confuses everything if you know how it has traditionally worked.

In the end C5 in MC and other MIDI programs is Middle C - C4 - The pitch is correct and it appears correctly in staff view.

The designation C5 is not only confusing, it is simply a label. Ignore it.
Your sheet music should print out at the correct staff location and your playback should be at the right pitch. There shouldn't be a need to transpose unless you want to change the key.

It's like a highway engineer who decides to call the first exit - 0th exit
and the second exit - 1st exit.

You and I know that the 0th is really the first exit and the 1st exit is really the second.

Now I'm confused.

Don't get me wrong. I really enjoy computers. I was surprised to hear that Steve Jobs [Apple] once said the same thing I had been saying - "I like what computers allow me to do." - Of course he made a few more dollars than I over the past few years.

In short. When looking at the piano roll view ignore the designations. Just subtract 1 from every number you see and the label will be correct. [i.e. C5 - 1 = C4].

And yes - that really is stupid, but we're not going to change the program.

I belive you can change the labels manually, but that would take more time than I would be willing to put in.

So pretend you're a computer guy or gal and you know nothing about music. Create and have fun.

I hope I haven't made it even a bigger mess.

I'll B. millerbill C-ing you.

ORIGINAL: Beagle

Hmm. Hadn't noticed in Piano Roll view that "middle C" is notated as C5, but since some keyboards list C5 as middle, I guess the software is allowed to take liberties like that as well. If you are entering the MIDI data in Piano Roll view, then I would just suggest you entering the data at the specific note you want instead of allowing CW to dictate where middle C should be played.

Someone else might have a better suggestion for you, but since you've already entered MIDI data, you can transpose what you have 1 octave lower.

Sorry I wasn't more help.

Millerbill is on the right track. Further, Music Creator allows you to adjust this. Open the Global Options and adjust "Base Octave for Pitches". E.G., If you enter -2, Middle C changes from C5 to C3. No one's dictating anything!

That is so cool Tom. Twice over!

First the adjustment and - second that we have read you. We appreciate your input.

This is the first time I've seen an administrator within our discussions. I am NOT being facitious when I say, it's good to see that somebody really cares.

And nice to know that sometimes- "Computer Engineers" DO think of everything.

Thanks!

millerbill,

It was my bad. you're right all along about this matter. C5 is actually C4. I remember now what I did was when I printed the music sheet on cakewalk my printer would just print the notes with the staff lines missing. so I printed it in tabledit and the settings transposed it by itself.

I appreciate the help and education.

______________________________________________________________________________

and for Tom, our man,

thanks for tip on how to change the middle C setting. there's a lot of things to explore on calkwalk. my question now is how to fix my print out so the staff lines would show.

Thanks a lot !!!


I'm done with Vitamin C ... time to move on to D

Tom Roussell [Cakewalk]
Administrator





Posts: 133
Joined: 11/4/2003
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Status: offline

Tom Roussell [Cakewalk]
Administrator





Posts: 133
Joined: 11/4/2003
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Status: offline

I just want to know how he got 5 stars with only 133 posts, sounds like he's cheatin huh guys!!

ORIGINAL: Robomusic

I just want to know how he got 5 stars with only 133 posts, sounds like he's cheatin huh guys!!

Real Name Tom Roussell
Location: Boston, MA, USA

Occupation: Program Director, Cakewalk
Joined: 11/4/2003

He must know Mr. Cakewalk and Mr. Twelve Tones personally. Do you think he would tell us where all the easter eggs are hidden?

I am employed by Cakewalk and am a forum administrator, hence the 5 star rating. No cheating going on here!

Greg,

The blue knob is next to the green switch and just below the red LED.

JR