offnote


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vxOoSS5RY

what a sweet sound of seventies...

"This era was so awesome, even the instruments smoked..."

That's almost like the one that Frank Zappa used, isn't it?

sharke


A list of famous Gibson players, without Frank Zappa. 

Thank you! I already splashed it! On top of it, Eric got his after hearing Frank, I bet ... both George and John had already talked about how good he was!

spacealf


What's this about the price of Gibson guitars. Seems like Fender with the Custom Shop charge just as much. http://www.sweetwater.com...QiOiI0Mjk0OTY3MjEzIn19 Save the wood, I guess.

Well, if we're talking simple standard instruments, an american strat goes for what? around $1000? 


A plain Gibson Les Paul starts at twice as much.


So yes, a custom shop strat is as expensive as a standard non-custom LP.  Those custom ones I often see going for as much as 4 or 5 k.

Hi,
(Aside: I regret having let go of my EB-0 bass 25 years ago ... I really do, even though I traded it for a Fender Jazz Bass in 1982 ... that I liked but ... did not have one third the personality and depth of the Gibbie.)
 
I don't know enough about the instruments themselves to really be able to add to the conversation. However, I seriously doubt that the guitar is what drives the musician as much as we think ... it's too easy to say that "it feels comfortable in my hands", however, that is also like saying that you have found something that you did not have before, or understood before, and that might not necessarily be the instrument, but the time and place!

Edgar Froese used the Fenders until he got more electronic. The use of the guitar on 220 Live is not a Fender and looks like a Stratus Graphite.

Its kinda funny, but it's like saying that I can write better on a computer that has 16G of Memory and is 100 times faster than the computer I use now with W7 and 8G of memory ... and I really think that is an illusion ... that has very little to do with the "inner" sight that you have! Sure, I might be able to do other things on the bigger computer, but "creating" has less to do with the utility than it does with me, or with you!

It's bizarre and this was one of the things that hurt Quake and Doom in the very early days, when people that had better computers always WON the game ... and the big online games made this a non-issue, by making sure the games were run at a certain pace, and your video card only had to render it ... not worry about the speed of the game! It made the gaming even for everyone, and it was one of the things that hurt Everquest and their raiding system!

All in all, there are so many choices that sometimes thinking that one is better than the other is no different than ... the grass is greener on the other side.

Is Bapu a better bass player because he has one of them ... things? ... I don't think so ... he was good before then ... but it gives the illusion that a higher cost/level instrument makes you a better player, which is bollocks! ...

Funny bit here ... a psychic friend of mine used to say some funny things ... like .. the more you charge, the better they listen ... so yeah ... go spend your 2 and 3 grand ... so you WILL pay attention to your lessons and learning! And play better, of course!!!

HAHAHA

I bought a $700 Gibson that works well enough for me, since actually I am a keyboard player (or could be a drummer). The new Gibsons are around $849 for LP models and come in all price ranges lately. Of course with any guitar you usually get what you pay for. And I suppose there is more work done on a Gibson with chambered bodies or swiss cheese holes in those guitars. NO I am not trying to persuade anyone about nothing, but I find that to me all guitar manufacturers can charge about the same price. An Epiphone can be bought for less just like some Fenders, but still it is all Gibson or Fenders with those type of guitars, and now there are other guitars out there also. Ibanez did not suit me (I own a cheap one of those also) because the neck is too small for me. I can not use it, and wonder why I bought it now, I guess I did not try it out much before buying. So that always has to be done.

I don't know enough about the instruments themselves to really be able to add to the conversation. However, I seriously doubt that the guitar is what drives the musician as much as we think ... it's too easy to say that "it feels comfortable in my hands", however, that is also like saying that you have found something that you did not have before, or understood before, and that might not necessarily be the instrument, but the time and place!

 
Not sure that you have done this recently, but you can play a whole wall of the same model Gibson's or Fenders and they will all feel and play just a little differently than the others.  I know one of the mistakes that newbies make when they buy guitars and are first learning, they tend to buy the cheapest guitar that they can afford.  Student's tend to learn faster on a quality instrument than on something that does not play well or stay in tune.  Neither are an issue of course with a Gibson or a Fender, as long as it is a better model.
 
I know that I went back to playing Gibson's for the shorter neck scale.  It is easier on my hands.  It is easier to bend strings.  I used to get some tendonitis in my hands and I don't since switching to the shorter scale.
 
I bought my last Fender Strat based on how well the neck played and was fretted.  I had not planned on buying it, but it just felt and played soooo well.  Even violin's... my daughter bought a new violin recently and it was recommended by the store manager that she play them all and choose the one that sounded and played the best too her.  It may be easy to say this, but there is some truth to the playability.  A Fender Squire in the hands of a Pro will sound awesome, but it probably would not be his instrument of choice.  Most of the tone comes from your brain to your hands.  As Danny mentioned earlier, he will sound like himself on almost any guitar he plays.  I know that I already have a tone that I am striving for in my head and I will dial just about any tube amp to that tone. 
 
Also, you don't have to pay 3-4K for a descent Les Paul.  I play a LP Studio and it is a working man's guitar.... sounds great.  New they go for $1,300, bought mine used, in perfect condition for $800.

Well, if we're talking simple standard instruments, an american strat goes for what? around $1000?  A plain Gibson Les Paul starts at twice as much.

Not really...........


What about the Gibson LP Studios?


They are easily on par with a Fender Standard.............and they stay in tune


Plus............ there are a few "LP Studio" models to choose from.............

spacealf


You want others to read all of this. Some of it emotional, and some for discussion of opinion points. Where's the music?

Is this for me? If so, wasn't the purpose of the thread to share emotion as well as personal opinion and experience? I'm a guitar player...I'm just sharing it as I've lived it while involving my personal experience in as well. I also have a wide array of guitars in my collection, so I've played quite a few in my time.
 
Where's what music? Was that a challenge or something? You lost me there.
 
I was born in the late 60's. I can't help it that I don't dig some of the tones older classic rock guys loved anymore than I can help that I love tones that they hate. There is no right or wrong other than what works or what doesn't for a person really. It's all going to be subjective anyway.
 
Just because something has charted or made a person famous doesn't mean it's good to everyone. Fame to me dictates popularity and income MOST times (yes even in the 60's to present)...it has nothing to do with really being great or being pleasing to MY ears. I still can't stomach some of Steve Howe's tones on some of the old YES albums. They make my skin crawl. Yet, I appreciate and enjoy his style and playing. 
 
-Danny

I like Teles, own a start with two humbuckers. Used to like Les Pauls, but they were too heavy and too expensive compared to strats. So I stuck with my start. I'll probably buy a tele next too. I don't plan on buying a Gibson because of the price. Meh, I REALLY want a rainsong though. Totally off topic, but yeah. I want. All. Guitars. Yeah, that's about right.

Moshkiae


Funny bit here ... a psychic friend of mine used to say some funny things ... like .. the more you charge, the better they listen ... so yeah ... go spend your 2 and 3 grand ... so you WILL pay attention to your lessons and learning! And play better, of course!!!

HAHAHA

well, it is very much the true! when you buy expensive instrument you cannot blame it anymore LOL

I don't think I've ever owned a Fender. Had a Les Paul for about ten minutes.
The nicest solid body I've ever played was a Paul Reed Smith. The thing had magic in it or something.

I've always been from the acoustic camp so, with electrics, I like something I can rest on my thigh and play.
so, I've gravitated to semi hollows and hollows. I found with strats and Pauls I had to stand up. Too much work:)

That said, I played a really cheap Strat at Guit Center a couple weeks ago and it has been weighing on mind's wallet. The thing played real nice and sounded, well, like a strat. I want one. I do love the strat sound.

Twang, baby!!  Phat, phasey, phenomenal TWANG!!  Surf's up!!

zungle

The bottom line: Most people don't buy ONLY Gibson or Fender.

Thats the plain truth.........

Yes that's true, same as most people don't buy Steinway or Bosendorfer but everybody is dreaming about it... 

No, Danny that was not about you, just about the thread after all the lists of guitar players playing whichever guitar and everything. It was a joke.

I think Gibson Custom Guitars are out of my price range even more then a Fender is. http://www.sweetwater.com...QiOiI0Mjk0OTY3MjAzIn19 I think the price has gone up once again.

"Why Gibson is less popular these days"

I'm guessing it's because of his racial outburst's.







Wrong Gibson?.............. Sorry.


Carry on.


Mike

Bottom line #2 - If you're buying a guitar because it's what you think others say you should buy, then you're getting it for the wrong reasons. 

If I find a guitar that feels great, plays great and produces the tones I want then I don't care what name is on the headstock.  Of course, I'd prefer the guitar to not look too offensive as well, but that's probably just me.

Right...I was brought up on Fender, Gibson, Gretsch, Epiphone, Guild and Martin.  And ran through more of them than I care to remember.  Then about six years ago I got a Parker Nitefly Mojo.  With Seymour Duncan's.  Just to try.  

That's it brother...partner found.  I immediately bonded with my new love and that love has not diminished yet.  For solid body electric recording there's nothing else for me.  Sure I'll still pull out my Strat when I absolutely need some major twang...but for most everything else...it's the Parker.  Go figure.

Interesting to me that this thread was started without any proof of the statement in the title. It could be true, but how is popularity defined? Sales? Top hits using one over the other? Those considered top players and what they are using now?

I own both and have over 20 years. They are just tools in the box for different jobs. Just like all the others I've owned or still have. Or like different colors for the canvas. 

I walked onstage at least 5 nights a week for over 20 years and never once thought about whether I was playing a popular guitar. I played at a private party last night with an old friend of mine. He's got a nice Les Paul gold top and a beautiful blond Strat. I started with my LP. After a few songs I got out my new Agile Harm and played it through his Egnator combo. After 3 songs he started ****ing about me being left handed and how he really wanted to play that guitar. A benefit of being a freak.

Randy

craigb


Bottom line #2 - If you're buying a guitar because it's what you think others say you should buy, then you're getting it for the wrong reasons. 

you're wrong here, we don't have time to test literally millions of guitars out there. That's why we go for brands well  know for reliability and quality.
Same with cars - we read reviews, safety and reliability reports then we chose a make and model. So yea we do care what others are saying. Don't underestimate the power of statistics.
 

craigb


Bottom line #2 - If you're buying a guitar because it's what you think others say you should buy, then you're getting it for the wrong reasons. 

If I find a guitar that feels great, plays great and produces the tones I want then I don't care what name is on the headstock.  Of course, I'd prefer the guitar to not look too offensive as well, but that's probably just me.

+1! Same for me Craig. I have a few junkers that sound and play as good as any super pricey axe in my opinion. If it sounds good and feels good, I run with it and actually feel proud to sport the name on the headstock.
 
I have a few old Cort, Cimar and Tokai guitars that are just plain insane in how they play and sound. Even the old Ibanez first generation neck-thru's are pretty killer like the rocket roll series. I still have one of those left. Got rid of the Iceman and the Destroyer, but kept the V. :)
 
-Danny

@offnote: Nope...he's right.  If you don't care enough about the instrument you play to search, test, compare and decide for yourself...to hell with what anyone's marketing might tell you...then YOU ain't doin yor J.O.B.

Them's just the facts, Jack.

offnote

craigb


Bottom line #2 - If you're buying a guitar because it's what you think others say you should buy, then you're getting it for the wrong reasons. 

you're wrong here, we don't have time to test literally millions of guitars out there. That's why we go for brands well  know for reliability and quality.
Same with cars - we read reviews, safety and reliability reports then we chose a make and model. So yea we do care what others are saying. Don't underestimate the power of statistics.

Statistics? Who buys a guitar based on statistics? Like ol'pal,ive owned countless guitars and the sole reason I ever bought any of them was because I liked the way it felt in my hands at the time and the sound I could get it to make.


Randy

offnote

craigb


Bottom line #2 - If you're buying a guitar because it's what you think others say you should buy, then you're getting it for the wrong reasons. 

you're wrong here, we don't have time to test literally millions of guitars out there. That's why we go for brands well  know for reliability and quality.
Same with cars - we read reviews, safety and reliability reports then we chose a make and model. So yea we do care what others are saying. Don't underestimate the power of statistics.

Yes but you have as much of a chance of getting it wrong as you do getting it right. Ever buy a CD based on a good friend's review and not like it once you heard it? Ever get ready to buy a car based on a recommendation, test drive it and realize it wasn't for you? Same with guitars. What works for one may not work for another. I hate PRS guitars and Parker Fly's. I don't care who uses them, what statistics say or if the next guitar god that comes about swears by them. I don't like how they look, how they sound or how they play.
 
No one has to test millions of guitars. You go to a store one day and grab a few off the rack and try them. If something makes you sport wood and you can afford it, you buy it. If not, you take another day some other time and visit another music store or go to a builder and have one custom made to your specs if you can. It's really a simple process...but it may take time because to me, a guitar is a soul mate. I can't just buy any guitar and love it. Each person demands a different set of options. Each player has different abilities so they may need a guitar that performs the way they want/need it to. It may not even be a guitar that is considered popular.
 
Some guys have big hands and need to get up high on the neck. Some guys have smaller hands and don't like the baseball bat necks you get on a Les Paul or some Strats. Some like myself prefer 24 frets, some like tele twang, some like the Strat type sound of an Ibanez over a real strat. Sometimes a Yamaha Pacifica will smoke every guitar on the rack regardless of what it is or how much it may cost. There are just too many variables really.
 
-Danny

Danny's right (as per usual).  The fact that he loathes a Parker while I love mine is exactly what we're talking about.  YOU have to play it and YOU have to like it...so whether you like it or not...YOU'LL have to try it.  Anyone who buys any instrument on the recommendation of others or, worse, marketing without trying it first is just asking for disappointment and heartache.

I think this was intended to get people riled up but I don't really care because I just like talking about guitars. My current dream is to own a Music Man. The Yammy is brilliant though. I just gotta get the nut replaced and get some nice machine heads and it'll be primo. Eventually I'd like a new rocker too but that will cost far more and I'm not sure it's worth the investment... oh yeah... it needs some new action screw thingies too because the current ones are kind of stripped and gunked up and the one on the low E has a burr that cuts into the heel of my palm. Figures that's the most stripped one so I can't get the bugger out and swap it with one of the others.

yorolpal


Danny's right (as per usual).  The fact that he loathes a Parker while I love mine is exactly what we're talking about.  YOU have to play it and YOU have to like it...so whether you like it or not...YOU'LL have to try it.  Anyone who buys any instrument on the recommendation of others or, worse, marketing without trying it first is just asking for disappointment and heartache.

And if the music you have shared past and present is you playing that guitar olpal, you Sir, have my blessing as I have never heard a bad tone from you. Just because I may not like a guitar, doesn't mean it's crap in the hands of someone else. We need to play the instrument that suits our needs and at the end of the day, that's really all that matters.
 
Then again olpal, nothing beats the Parker if you have that piezo deal going on. LOL! I have to admit, that was an incredible sound. But I just couldn't get over how wrong the guitar felt in my hands. I tried to like it and will give that piezo all the credit in the world. But shh...I didn't admit to that. LOL! :)

I play an 80's squire strat as my main ( beater) guitar. My main player is a 64 TD 335 12 string ( that has been strung as a 6 string for 30 years). I recently played an older Les Paul.. and I miss the feel of the weight. I really want one again. My major blow it moment in life was selling a 61 Strat and a 73 SG with Bigsby. I've owned and sold off maybe 15 guitars that I don't really regret - but each of them had a different characteristic to offer. The most expensive ( non vintage) guitar I've ever played was a custom Paul Reed Smith - Semi hollow with piezos' - beautiful guitar - but $10.000.00 - naw I don't think so. PRS and Taylor are other overly priced guitars in my book.

Danny Danzi


Yes but you have as much of a chance of getting it wrong as you do getting it right. Ever buy a CD based on a good friend's review and not like it once you heard it? Ever get ready to buy a car based on a recommendation, test drive it and realize it wasn't for you?
 
-Danny

I repeat again, statistics -  sure I'd not rely on one friend opinion but Id' seriously consider 1000 friends opinion.


Anyway this is not really the point here in this thread which is more about why musicians today use wrong tools for the job 
and poor rock is dying...

Rbh


 The most expensive ( non vintage) guitar I've ever played was a custom Paul Reed Smith - Semi hollow with piezos' - beautiful guitar - but $10.000.00 - naw I don't think so. PRS and Taylor are other overly priced guitars in my book.

oh come on, you pay more for stupid car...

My current guitar is worth three times as much as my car...  (Really.)

Historically speaking, a lot of musician who've breathed life back into rock were often using "the wrong tools". The rest was simply riding on a wave. 

Like you said above, Hendrix first used a strat because he could afford one. The rest is history. In fact, he used to say that a lot of the stuff he played was  the result of him trying to imitate a horn line or whatever - talk about using the wrong tool. 

The Doors didn't have a bass player and had to rely on the keyboard player for a bass line. The White Stripes didn't even have a keyboard player to play the bass. The Beatles had Ringo for a drummer!

Necessity s the mother of invention.

When they can afford the "right tools", it's usually not long before it gets too comfortable and rock goes back to sleep.

Ultimately, the "right tools" are a standard - and rock is (partly) about going against the grain. 

craigb


My current guitar is worth three times as much as my car...  (Really.)

I don't even own a car (or a driver's license for that matter). So I guess even my cheapest Epiphone is worth a billion time as much. 

Fender is more popular than Gibson now'a'days because SRV played a Start! lol and pretty much the same reason I've not bought one. At least, that's what pops into my mind.

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I own both, and for the most part have since the mid to late 70's. I can't agree that one sounds "better" than the other. That's just not a sensible argument, and it's unprovable regardless of which one you side with.
 
As for popularity, it swings back and forth, and always has. The quality of the guitars has nothing to do with it. When Led Zep came out, everybody started playing LPs. Then Eddie came along and it swung to Strats. Then Slash came and it was back to LPs. etc. etc.
 
The guitars are just tools. A player will use what the song calls for.
 
Randy

I'm not sure why one would be more popular than the other when we all know you NEED more than one of each (along with at least one PRS, Schecter, Gresch, Ibanez, etc.).  

"why gibson is less popular then fender these days?"

 
 
oh, that's simple.
 
the fender models are more affordable.
there are more options.
 
 
gibsons are overpriced.
 

Oh my I don't have a Fender or a Gibson (electric anywho). Does that make me outmoded? Guess I'll need to buck up and try to play harder.
 
Regards,

So a year and a half after the thread first started, things haven't changed? :P
 
Fender is probably still selling more guitars than Gibson, if only for the fact that they are offering tons of cheap models. Guitars like the stratocaster player series (MIM) go for under $400 - and they still have the Fender logo on them. 
 
On the other hand, cording to a rep back in Canada, Gibson are doing better than they've done in years.
 
If I look at the Facebook picture profiles of all my fellow musicians from back home - 90% of whom used to play stratocasters and/or super strats - I'd say that things have changed radically. The Les Paul seems to be the new strat and all those guys seem to have switched. I guess it's in the air. 
 
Big Gibson are probably overpriced, but I've started seeing Fender strats and Tele go for $3000-$4000 more and more frequently these days. And Gibson have started offering less expensive guitars.
 
I just saw a $9600 CS Telecaster on Sweetwaters's web site. Now THAT is overpriced if you ask me. The most expensive Les Paul ($14 000) does not seem overpriced by comparison, imho...

The Strat has a bevel for my pot belly. Enough said.

gswitz
The Strat has a bevel for my pot belly. Enough said.

So did my Gibson Double-cut.
(Not enough said?  )

:-) Nice Craig! I didn't know they made them like that. I'm going to have to shop some more.

That was one of the few things I had to say in favour of my old strat vs my Les Pauls. The SG made it a moot point.
 

Sorry for the poor picture, but you can see it over there on the right.  I liked it so much that it's now part of my custom designs as well.
 

Hi,
 
Weird discussion!
 
Apples or Oranges?
 
Tomato or Tomatoe?
 
John or Jon?
 
I don't think the instrument is the most important part of it all. I seriously doubt it.
 
It's the person behind it, and if Jimi did not have a Strat, he would still be able to do his thing, and if Pete didn't have the Gibs, he would still smash it, and what not!
 
When you hear others play, and you check what they are playing and how they do this or that ... it can be one or the other ... so what?
 
And you think you can do what they do on their type of guitar and you can't do it on yours? I seriously doubt that ... but you can't get past the image that it can't be done?
 
Ex: Jeff Beck copied Terje Rypdal. Terje plays a Fender Strat. Jeff uses a Gibson, I think. The result is still VERY GOOD ... and no shame that Jeff is also capable of doing that kind of stuff that Terje did 40 years ago, when Jeff was still playing 1,2,3 and 4 rock'n'roll music, instead of experimenting with classical and chamber music like he is now!

This is no different than some bozo standing out in the middle of field looking up at an empty sky...
and the first thing you know...
 
Felt like somebody should mention that.....unless pissin' in the wind is your thang.
 

 I still love my Variax guitar which is very stratlike in appearance and feel * runs and ducks for cove*r. I like it so much that I would buy another one. There is a Gibson type modeler out there and a shredder version loaded with some killer models. 
 
 Im not especially nostalgic. I like nice guitars and I appreciate a quality guitar no matter who makes it. The name of the game for me is sound and feel. I'm not overly concerned with how it looks in the studio. If I buy another straight up guitar as opposed to a modeler I would look long and hard at Carvin. The quality and ability to customize and the price are tough to beat. They make a really good solid quality guitar on par with the very best for much less. 3000.00 dollars will get you a guitar you can't lay down.
 
 I am still tempeted to make a guitar. Not a kit. I have access to a few woodshops and could probably use those tools. I have some tools of my own. I think it would be a fun thing to do. If I wasn't between two other large projects right now I would have likely already ordered some plans to look over. I could see myself at least attempting it in the next year or so. Cutting the frets in looks complicated,the body and neck not so much. Measure three times  wait to cut and don't use a chinese micrometer. 

As a young Lad, I played what ever guitar I could afford and get my hands on. Now I play what guitar feels the best in my hands and gets me to my tone the quickest, price is not as big a deal. Give me a Fender, Gibson, PRS, and what ever amp you like; I will still dial in my tone.....even if I have to stick a pedal in front of it.

Oh, my and I just bought one because they were on sale this last weekend. (went up again at a certain place).
But others have push/pull coil taps and can either sound like a humbucker or a single coil pickup and Fenders can also cost more like $1600 and Customs way up there like Gibsons.
 
I  bought the solid body LP because this is the first year in a long time that Gibson has made one.

 
But then I do not take good pictures though and the color is different than what the picture shows.
 
Whatever!

 
I could of passed up the deal but then, I could not either with 30% off at the end of year sale, but read first sentence again. Just got it today.
 
(and because of the sale quite a few were bought this weekend at least at one place.)
 

That's a gorgeous Les Paul! Congrats!

Iced Tea? Very nice!

Thanks both of yas!  I watched as I was mulling over whether to buy or not and picking out one, and before I could of called in the guitar was sold. All Friday nite till close and Saturday, when I kept telling myself well, I should not buy one. Then Sunday came and checked again and nothing up, then about an hour or so later two were put up, and I just reacted and called in and thought they had sold it while I was talking to them. They meant me but like I said, the guitars were flying out the door. I mean the more expensive ones were way less, way less, even more like over $1200 off. Well, it's done so that wil be it. Not as heavy as some like the over 10lb. ones and maybe not a color I considered before, because they were gone before deciding anything.
 
Well, that is over, and now they are charging more but not as much as they were all year.
 
Yep, that is it for the guitar department for a long time.

It is not perfect but I guess I better like it, and I do, and it is lighter just a bit in color than the picture I tried to take of it.
I mean most of the time the wood is that way, they say that they match them but sometimes I wonder. Not one piece like other guitars, well that is the way they make them.
 
Nope, the color is Caramel Burst.
 
 

Like Sunday, while I was talking to them the other one (10lbs. 2oz monster) was sold. That ended that day.

I didn't buy a car for my mid-life crisis... I bought these instead...all since June...Thank God for home-equity loans!
 
 

 
A Fender Baja Telecaster, Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro 2, Les Paul Standard, Gibson Les Paul Joe Bonamassa Std, and a Laguna Greg Howe model....and my newest baby is to be delivered today..a Gibson M3.   LOL... Christmas came early.  I am DONE!
 
And each sounds radically different from the others.  Guitar Center and Sweetwater WILL negotiate a MUCH better price than what they advertise...trust me.
 
 

That's my kind of mid-life crisis!

Like to give me some money??

For free.
 

tbosco, they will sell you another one also!