xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem

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kgarello
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2008/05/10 17:28:31 (permalink)

xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem

I hope I didn't double post, the first submit timed out.

This is my first post to a cakewalk forum. I bought Sonar 7 PE as a Christmas present and have been lurking on these forums since.
I am amazed at the level of knowledge and helpfulness that I have seen on these forums.

I just purchased the Xenyx for my home studio. I have a bit of experience using the Mackie 1604 (pre vlz) in a live environment.

I am trying to trim out an SM58 in channel 1 of the 2442. In order to get the level to register on the meter, I have to turn the trim almost hard right. If I just touch it a little more, the level goes to 10 and clips.

I have tried multiple cables, different channels (the mixer generally works as I am playing mixes through 13-16), as well as a drum mic with the same behaviour. I have been using this mic through an old tascam 414 portastudio as a mic preamp with no problems.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it normal xenyx behavior? Or am I missing something on the mixer?

Sonar 8.3 PE
Echo Layla 24 X 2
Fostex PM0.5/sub
Mackie Onyx 1640
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    bitflipper
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/10 18:32:45 (permalink)
    That doesn't sound right. The trim control should be logarithmic, giving a smooth transition. If it was an old mixer, I'd suggest cleaning the pots. But given that you just purchased it, it may simply be defective. Hopefully you bought it from someone who'd be willing to take it back.

    An SM58 shouldn't really require trim. Traditional mixers' trim controls are just attenuators, as opposed to gain controls. That means they can only lower the level, not raise it, and are intended for taming high-level signals that would otherwise clip the preamp. The SM58 has a pretty hot output as microphones go, but I've never seen a mic pre that was so sensitive that it required trimming with nothing more than a mic coming in.

    The mic isn't going through another preamp before hitting the Xenyx, is it? That would include any effects between the mic and the mixer.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #2
    kgarello
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/10 19:56:49 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply.

    I'm just going from the sm58->xlr input.
    I remember on the Mackie I used to trim at about 1/3 to get a pretty good sm58 level (depending on the singer).

    I bought it from music123. I live on Maui, so the choices for equipment are pretty limited.

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    Clydewinder
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/10 21:04:44 (permalink)
    sounds wierd, is just the meter on the mixer clipping or the signal too? i wonder if the meter is set to a sub mix or buss that isn't getting a full signal. you are referring to the main mix meter ( 1/L 2/R or whatever it's called )

    post edited by Clydewinder - 2008/05/10 21:26:18

    The Poodle Chews It.


    #4
    kgarello
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 00:18:24 (permalink)
    Still pondering - don't see anything jumping out on me.

    Except the LED's on this thing. Had to put masking tape over everything but yellow.

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    Clydewinder
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 11:14:44 (permalink)
    Does the meter change at all if you solo that channel ( meter switches to solo or PFL mode? )

    The Poodle Chews It.


    #6
    kgarello
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 14:50:45 (permalink)
    This is how I am trying to trim the mic

    - Turn Trim pot all the way to the left
    - plug mic into xlr input on channel 1
    - press the solo button on track 1
    - press the mode button in on the level and meter section (this lights of the PFL light) now the left main mix meter should reflect input db
    - speak or scream into mic while adjusting trim pot clockwise until meter peaks at zero.

    I need to move the trim pot to about +55db out of 60 to drive the spl meter to 0 while speaking very loudly at about 3/4 of inch from the mic - normal voice peaks at about -20

    I guess I would expect the trim setting to be a lot less - I know on the mackie I was able to blow the meter out on an sm58.
    Although the mackie adjustment process (meter) was post fader, but this board the meter is prefader.

    The routing on this board is much more flexible and complex than I am used to.

    BTW a direct out of channel 1 to my layla is reading the same db with the fader at (unity), so I guess the meter is not lying.

    Ken


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    Clydewinder
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 15:04:54 (permalink)
    Sounds like you are doing everything right. Does that mixer have a -20db pad switch on the back panel anywhere that may have been engaged accidentally?

    The Poodle Chews It.


    #8
    marcos69
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 15:15:41 (permalink)
    My Tascam has a switch to toggle between 1/4" or xlr inputs. If I am plugged into one and the switch is on for the other it will do what you are describing.

    Mark Wessels

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    #9
    kgarello
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 15:39:43 (permalink)
    Clydewinder and Marcos69,

    No switch that I can find.
    I'm pretty sure that this mixer assumes a microphone level in the xlr and hotter signal in the line in jack

    I used to use the tascam portastudio as a preamp - that works as I would expect.

    I guess I will post the issue to behringer. Although, level problems might be difficult to get a straight answer out of behringer.

    I was hoping someone with a 2442 on these forums could either reproduce or not before I tried to get to behringer.

    Thanks to everyone who has responded. It has helped me to sort out my steps and look for things that I hadn't thought of.

    Ken

    Sonar 8.3 PE
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    zungle
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 17:55:30 (permalink)
    I am trying to trim out an SM58 in channel 1 of the 2442. In order to get the level to register on the meter,


    I use a XENYX 2442FX daily.........................which meter are you refering to ?

    Sonar Input
    XENYX BUSS Out
    XENYX Main Out


    Before you worry about anything else what is the channel input light doing?
    #11
    kgarello
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/11 18:15:54 (permalink)
    Zungle,

    Thanks for the reply

    On my xenyx there is only one meter - L/R above the main mix fader.

    There is also a clip light above the channel fader.\
    can't find a "channel input" light.


    With the MODE button pushed, and the channel Solo button in, the L meter reflects input level, right?

    My direct out channel 1 to my layla input reflects the same level as the SPL level on the xenyx

    Ken

    Sonar 8.3 PE
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    Fostex PM0.5/sub
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    #12
    zungle
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/13 01:18:59 (permalink)
    Let me simplify..............or re-word

    Which meters are trying to gage.........



    #13
    kgarello
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/13 04:31:43 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: zungle

    Let me simplify..............or re-word

    Which meters are trying to gage.........






    The Xenyx meters - Please see post #7 for a step by step.

    I'm probably going to end up going to my local music store to test another xenyx to see if it is typical.

    Another data point - I put a spl meter next to my mic while I was "checking". It read 90 DB. I have to set the trim at +55 to get a 0 PFL setting on the xenyx main mix meter (1 inch away from the mic).

    Ken

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    krizrox
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/13 10:34:39 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bitflipper

    That doesn't sound right. The trim control should be logarithmic, giving a smooth transition. If it was an old mixer, I'd suggest cleaning the pots. But given that you just purchased it, it may simply be defective. Hopefully you bought it from someone who'd be willing to take it back.

    An SM58 shouldn't really require trim. Traditional mixers' trim controls are just attenuators, as opposed to gain controls. That means they can only lower the level, not raise it, and are intended for taming high-level signals that would otherwise clip the preamp. The SM58 has a pretty hot output as microphones go, but I've never seen a mic pre that was so sensitive that it required trimming with nothing more than a mic coming in.

    The mic isn't going through another preamp before hitting the Xenyx, is it? That would include any effects between the mic and the mixer.



    I'm inclined to disagree (but not strongly disagree ) because I hate to be disagreeable. My Mackie trim control adds +15db gain to the signal. And SM57's are gain hogs. I wouldn't classify an SM57 as having a strong output signal. You usually need a fair amount of gain on the input depending on what that SM57 is pointed at. I have a Rode powerplug that I bought with my FH ribbon mic and it's actually come in quite handy on occasion with the SM57 by adding another 20db of gain to the signal. Well, whatever. Doesn't help solve the original problem. Hope you get it resolved. Aside from this, how do you guys like those Behringer mixers?

    Larry Kriz
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    kgarello
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    RE: xenyx 2442 fx Trim problem 2008/05/13 14:31:31 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: krizrox


    ORIGINAL: bitflipper

    That doesn't sound right. The trim control should be logarithmic, giving a smooth transition. If it was an old mixer, I'd suggest cleaning the pots. But given that you just purchased it, it may simply be defective. Hopefully you bought it from someone who'd be willing to take it back.

    An SM58 shouldn't really require trim. Traditional mixers' trim controls are just attenuators, as opposed to gain controls. That means they can only lower the level, not raise it, and are intended for taming high-level signals that would otherwise clip the preamp. The SM58 has a pretty hot output as microphones go, but I've never seen a mic pre that was so sensitive that it required trimming with nothing more than a mic coming in.

    The mic isn't going through another preamp before hitting the Xenyx, is it? That would include any effects between the mic and the mixer.



    I'm inclined to disagree (but not strongly disagree ) because I hate to be disagreeable. My Mackie trim control adds +15db gain to the signal. And SM57's are gain hogs. I wouldn't classify an SM57 as having a strong output signal. You usually need a fair amount of gain on the input depending on what that SM57 is pointed at. I have a Rode powerplug that I bought with my FH ribbon mic and it's actually come in quite handy on occasion with the SM57 by adding another 20db of gain to the signal. Well, whatever. Doesn't help solve the original problem. Hope you get it resolved. Aside from this, how do you guys like those Behringer mixers?




    I really like everything else about this mixer. The routing options are really nice.

    I was very suprised about the overall construction - I've seen some behringer mixers that felt like toys.

    The only other thing that bothers me is that in order to get main mix output levels on the meter, I have to send the main mix to the control room.

    Sonar 8.3 PE
    Echo Layla 24 X 2
    Fostex PM0.5/sub
    Mackie Onyx 1640
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