yep
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/08 11:06:41
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Another bump in lieu of re-typing in new threads.
Cheers.
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Glennb
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/10 23:49:54
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ORIGINAL: yep
7.Studio tricks and mixing techniques
The “whisper trickâ€: Having the singer whisper along with the vocal track in a monotone can be a quick and easy way to get a “huge vocal†sound. Again, easily overused, and most effective on weak vocalists in dense mixes.
I keep reading about this and would love to give it a try, but to be honest it has me puzzled. 1. You whisper in a monotone? So just the one pitch? Is it the Key centre? 2. This sounds dumb, but do you whisper softly, or is it a loud whisper, like a "stage whisper"? 2. Does anyone know of any songs that use this technique, that I can listen as a reference? Glenn And thanks Yep for a priceless resource
post edited by Glennb - 2008/07/11 00:13:32
Glenn in Aus SHSXL6 on laptop with Intel i5 CPU M480 @ 2.67 GHZ 2.67GHz 4G RAM (2.86 usable?) 32Bit operating system on Windows 7 -> Presonus USB Audiobox.
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yep
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/14 08:55:37
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ORIGINAL: Glennb
ORIGINAL: yep
7.Studio tricks and mixing techniques
The “whisper trickâ€: Having the singer whisper along with the vocal track in a monotone can be a quick and easy way to get a “huge vocal†sound. Again, easily overused, and most effective on weak vocalists in dense mixes.
I keep reading about this and would love to give it a try, but to be honest it has me puzzled.
1. You whisper in a monotone? So just the one pitch? Is it the Key centre?
2. This sounds dumb, but do you whisper softly, or is it a loud whisper, like a "stage whisper"?
2. Does anyone know of any songs that use this technique, that I can listen as a reference?
Glenn
And thanks Yep for a priceless resource
You are seriously way over-thinking this. It is about a million times easier to do than to think through all the variables of. 1. It doesn't really matter. A true whisper is pretty tuneless. The idea is just to reinforce the airy, throaty, "character" aspect of the voice sans the note. 2. Try both. It's quicker than me typing the differences. 3. Uh, pretty much any commercial hard rock song released in the past 20 years or so. Really, for starters, just focus on whispering in perfect sync with the main vocal track. You cannot fail to create a pretty dramatic difference (whether a good one or a bad one is a separate question). If you want to try and hone the perfect "whisper technique" and experiment with different voices and SPL levels or trying to somehow sing notes in a whisper voice, go for it. This is not a recipe, just a suggestion. Really, any time you see something that you would love to give a try, give it a try. The people who do this stuff for a living are not rocket surgeons. Trying to think everything through is usually a much less effective way to learn than simply getting messy and trying it out. Cheers.
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Truckermusic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/14 18:25:16
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Yep
I've read your replies in the past and you have some GREAT things to help people with......I agree that youo should bundle up alll your work and see if Cakewalk will make them into a resource for the rest of us......
thanks for helping
Cliff
http://www.soundclick.com/cliffordamundsen NZXT Phantom Case (in Black) Windows 7, Service Pack 1, 64 Bit OP Sonar X3 Producer, 64 Bit Asus P8P67 Pro Rev.3 MoBo 16 Gig of Ram 4.5 Gighz Intel i-7 2600k Quad Core Sandy Bridge Unibrain Firewire Card Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface Mackie Big Knob NI Komplete 8 Machine 2
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lazarous
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/15 11:27:57
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ORIGINAL: Truckermusic
Yep
I've read your replies in the past and you have some GREAT things to help people with......I agree that youo should bundle up alll your work and see if Cakewalk will make them into a resource for the rest of us......
thanks for helping
Cliff
Yep, and others: I actually HAVE a document compiled from posts Yep, Chaz and others have put up. I would never consider giving it out to anyone, but, if Yep gave permission, I could ask others... No attributions in there, sadly. It was only for my personal use, so... I could put it up as a download on my personal site, if permission is given. I think it's over 70 pages? I did some editing for grammar and spelling. Corey
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/15 12:37:44
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i've collected some stuff from yep as well. you should do a search for "pre-flight basics" by spheris. good stuff in that thread, also EQ tips from chaz but i figure you probably have that one.
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jamesg1213
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/15 16:17:29
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ORIGINAL: Glennb
ORIGINAL: yep
7.Studio tricks and mixing techniques
The “whisper trickâ€: Having the singer whisper along with the vocal track in a monotone can be a quick and easy way to get a “huge vocal†sound. Again, easily overused, and most effective on weak vocalists in dense mixes.
I keep reading about this and would love to give it a try, but to be honest it has me puzzled.
1. You whisper in a monotone? So just the one pitch? Is it the Key centre?
2. This sounds dumb, but do you whisper softly, or is it a loud whisper, like a "stage whisper"?
2. Does anyone know of any songs that use this technique, that I can listen as a reference?
Glenn
And thanks Yep for a priceless resource
The Doors - Riders On The Storm
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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yep
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/16 18:48:33
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ORIGINAL: lazarous
ORIGINAL: Truckermusic
Yep
I've read your replies in the past and you have some GREAT things to help people with......I agree that youo should bundle up alll your work and see if Cakewalk will make them into a resource for the rest of us......
thanks for helping
Cliff
Yep, and others:
I actually HAVE a document compiled from posts Yep, Chaz and others have put up. I would never consider giving it out to anyone, but, if Yep gave permission, I could ask others...
No attributions in there, sadly. It was only for my personal use, so...
I could put it up as a download on my personal site, if permission is given. I think it's over 70 pages? I did some editing for grammar and spelling.
Corey
lol No complaints from me! Technically I believe that cakewalk owns the copyright to stuff posted on this forum, but I can't imagine anyone would complain. Cheers.
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yep
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/16 19:11:05
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ORIGINAL: jamesg1213
ORIGINAL: Glennb
ORIGINAL: yep
7.Studio tricks and mixing techniques
The “whisper trickâ€: Having the singer whisper along with the vocal track in a monotone can be a quick and easy way to get a “huge vocal†sound. Again, easily overused, and most effective on weak vocalists in dense mixes.
I keep reading about this and would love to give it a try, but to be honest it has me puzzled.
1. You whisper in a monotone? So just the one pitch? Is it the Key centre?
2. This sounds dumb, but do you whisper softly, or is it a loud whisper, like a "stage whisper"?
2. Does anyone know of any songs that use this technique, that I can listen as a reference?
Glenn
And thanks Yep for a priceless resource
The Doors - Riders On The Storm
Honestly, the examples are so numerous that trying to mention them is almost self-defeating. One could list 20 examples and have them all be from bands/singers that you don't like, and still, five of your top 10 favorite vocalists might use the technique on every track. It basically brings size, character, and intimacy to vocals, especially in a dense mix that might otherwise tend to drown those features. If you think about the information that is contained in a whisper, it's basically everything about the voice except the "note." So having the ability to "turn up" the expressiveness, articulation, breathiness, and throatiness of a vocal allows you to bring the vocal out front without drowning the other instruments. In modern multi-tracked recordings, getting the "sound" is often a struggle to get everything as big, detailed, and in-your-face as possible. If you listen to operatic singers or to old soul records, the "note" of the vocal is typically a very big part, the biggest even. That is kind of the classical idea with singing. In modern popular recordings (everything from Bono to Stevie Nicks to Tom Waits to James Hetfield to Ol Dirty Bastard), the instrumental "note" often takes a backseat to the rasp, roar, and character of the vocal. Modern vocals are often more guitar than violin, so to speak. Most of that "character" lives in the upper midrange, which is easily drowned out by other instruments in a dense modern mix (since typically all the other instruments are trying to sound that way too, these days). Especially if the singer has a somewhat limp or shallow tonality, their "notes" can end up sounding mushy, nasal, or honky if the mix washes out all the character and articulation. If you turn up the vocal to compensate, it starts to overpower the other instruments and can sound disconnected from the mix. The idea with the whisper trick is just to double up and restore the parts of the voice that get lost in the mix. If you are working with a really good singer with a rich, operatic tonality and full-bodied harmonics ("the sun in the voice," as Pavarotti put it), then this trick is apt to sound a little cheesy and over-seasoned. But if the interesting aspects of the singer's voice are more in the formant/atonal aspects of their voice, then a whisper can be a quick and easy way to distill those aspects so you can play them up without also turning up the weaknesses. Note that a simple low-shelf cut up into the midrange gives a similar but less dramatic effect. Cheers.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/16 20:56:25
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ORIGINAL: yep
Note that a simple low-shelf cut up into the midrange gives a similar but less dramatic effect. i use this quite a bit to clean up the vocals, it does wonders. being a lazy sort, i usually don't do the whisper track throughout but it does do wonders as well, i'm usually just in too much of a hurry now to do it... also a harmony track real low in the mix can thicken up the vocal as well without the actual harmony being "noticed", as can doubling the vocal an octave below or above depending on your range or your fascination with pitch shifters...
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Glennb
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/16 22:53:44
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ORIGINAL: yep
ORIGINAL: Glennb
ORIGINAL: yep
7.Studio tricks and mixing techniques
The “whisper trickâ€: Having the singer whisper along with the vocal track in a monotone can be a quick and easy way to get a “huge vocal†sound. Again, easily overused, and most effective on weak vocalists in dense mixes.
I keep reading about this and would love to give it a try, but to be honest it has me puzzled.
1. You whisper in a monotone? So just the one pitch? Is it the Key centre?
2. This sounds dumb, but do you whisper softly, or is it a loud whisper, like a "stage whisper"?
2. Does anyone know of any songs that use this technique, that I can listen as a reference?
Glenn
And thanks Yep for a priceless resource
You are seriously way over-thinking this. It is about a million times easier to do than to think through all the variables of.
1. It doesn't really matter. A true whisper is pretty tuneless. The idea is just to reinforce the airy, throaty, "character" aspect of the voice sans the note.
2. Try both. It's quicker than me typing the differences.
3. Uh, pretty much any commercial hard rock song released in the past 20 years or so.
Really, for starters, just focus on whispering in perfect sync with the main vocal track. You cannot fail to create a pretty dramatic difference (whether a good one or a bad one is a separate question). If you want to try and hone the perfect "whisper technique" and experiment with different voices and SPL levels or trying to somehow sing notes in a whisper voice, go for it. This is not a recipe, just a suggestion.
Really, any time you see something that you would love to give a try, give it a try. The people who do this stuff for a living are not rocket surgeons. Trying to think everything through is usually a much less effective way to learn than simply getting messy and trying it out.
Cheers.
Thanks again Yep for the reply... Of course the best is to just try it, trouble for me right now is time. I just have had trouble sitting down in front of my DAW. That and I am not a good or confident singer. I am collaborating with the singer from my last band. When I get a chance, I look forward to giving it a go. Thanks again Glenn
Glenn in Aus SHSXL6 on laptop with Intel i5 CPU M480 @ 2.67 GHZ 2.67GHz 4G RAM (2.86 usable?) 32Bit operating system on Windows 7 -> Presonus USB Audiobox.
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yep
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/16 23:23:44
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I almost hate to say it, but in truth, if you are really pressed for time or money, by far the quickest and cheapest way to get a professional-quality recording is simply to hire a competent studio and engineer.
People think that simply building a computer studio is the easiest way to record their music, and the ad hype reinforces this, but that's like someone thinking that the easiest way to get live music at their wedding is to buy a bunch of instruments and have a bunch of friends learn to become musicians.
It takes a lot of talent to write a hit song, but it arguably takes more skill and training to be able to engineer a hit record. If you are a musician first and foremost, there is a lot to be said for focusing on your music and working towards the day when you can hire someone else to take care of the compression ratios. Great architects have other people to pour the concrete, glaze the windows, and run the electrical.
Cheers.
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plectrumpusher
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/16 23:32:13
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One of the best things a pro studio is going to have is a mic locker! Why do the same folks who completely understand that speakers are all very different , made from different designs and components, and performing differently think all mics are equal ?? Finding the right mic for your voice is half the battle won and that can get spendy at home . If you went to a commercial studio and found out what works , then you can go get one for yourself. Then all you'll have to duplicate is the rrom or get an isolation booth . But alas , you'll still be missing all those years and experience an engineer can bring to the table !!!! Cheers 
If you haven't got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart.......Then you are just an old sour fart!!
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 00:56:51
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that is actually why i don't bother doing half the things i've learned on this forum. i've literally spent years on a couple songs, re-recording, remixing, blah blah blah. now i can get decent enough stuff in a day. sure it's got problems, no it's far from "hit mix" quality but does it get the message across? does it nail down what i want the song to be? you bet. and that's enough.
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Glennb
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 01:34:17
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ORIGINAL: yep
I almost hate to say it, but in truth, if you are really pressed for time or money, by far the quickest and cheapest way to get a professional-quality recording is simply to hire a competent studio and engineer.
Yeah but thats no fun. For me the learning about the engineering & production is the fun bit and I guess is a passion or hobby of mine. But the reality is that it is a passion of mine that is limited by time & money, but it is what it is. I get equal kick out of the songwriting process as I do from the production process and I find myself always wanting to get through one process to get to the other. ORIGINAL: yep
It takes a lot of talent to write a hit song, but it arguably takes more skill and training to be able to engineer a hit record. If you are a musician first and foremost, there is a lot to be said for focusing on your music and working towards the day when you can hire someone else to take care of the compression ratios. Great architects have other people to pour the concrete, glaze the windows, and run the electrical.
Cheers.
I am enjoying my collaboration process right now with the singer from my old band. Our aspirations are not to get on the shelves of Wal-mart, but I would like to get a recording produced to a sufficient quality that I would no tbe embarrassed for others to listen. In short I aspire to the quality of many of the posters here. That is one thing I really enjoy, is the inspiration I find here. If by some freak of nature or magic, we did produce something special, then I think I would hand it over to professionals. Glenn
post edited by Glennb - 2008/07/17 01:59:42
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Lanceindastudio
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 02:13:38
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I was at paramount studios recording vocals for an entire record just the other very very recently. I get better results at my studio when I can directly coach the singer right next to me and run the whole rig too. I learned to produce because I wasnt satisfied with most of the work I had done with others. It is so awesome if Im singing or recording somebody else to be so directly connected to the process.
Lot of people say it is easier to have somebody else do the work. Well, for me, that has been pretty rare. I really know what I want and I like others input, but like I said, I know what I want.
Then again, they were running pro tools at paramount, that was prolly the problem - kidding!!!!(kind of)
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 08:34:57
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lance you may be a natural engineer/producer though - many people here (myself included) wouldn't be able to claim that, as we don't know what we want when it comes to subtle production changes. i know what i want the song to sound like at the macro level - how many guitars, what their tone should be, the composition, etc. but would i know what to do with a huge selection of mics? no. to me the goal - recording my idea - is interrupted by the process of me recording it.
i have to concentrate not only on playing and singing, but not moving my chair so i can return to the exact same position. i have to listen to what i've just played to see if there are any mistakes that would cause me to do a re-take. i have to reach around my portable vocal booth to hit 'r' and move to the place in the song where i need to record, and at the end of the day i have to roll the dice on whether i got a complete track or not, because in my recording space i'll never be able to reproduce the same position and thus the same sound.
none of that is an issue in a pro studio because they take care of it and i don't have to worry. i just play and sing. they pick out the mics, they set me up where i need to sit, they hit record, they say "let's try that again" or "that's a wrap", they know what they can fix and what needs a punch-in, etc. some people can engineer themselves but it's a heck of a lot harder than just having someone who knows what they are doing help you out.
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Marah Mag
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 15:40:51
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There are so many variables it can be difficult to even generalize. The way I see it, songwriting can directly blend into production, and vice versa; and production can directly blend into engineering, and vice versa; but songwriting and engineering are less likely to directly blend into each other without going through considerations of production. It's worth keeping in mind that many, maybe most, of the best and biggest name producers have used engineers -- including those producers who started out as engineers. A lot of engineering, through still requiring knowledge and experience and competence, is nevertheless perfunctory. It's as you move beyond that level of engineering, e.g., into the exploration of new techniques to create new effects or workflows that you might start approaching production functions, which is also when you start hiring assistent engineers. This isn't to elevate one function over the other -- except maybe songwriting. The point is that in DAWdom, especially self-DAWing, it's especially easy to lose sight of the distinct functions involved in record making, partly because those distinct functions lose their distinctions in the finished record, which unites them into a complete thing. In my view, to my ears, very few people excel at all 3, or at all 4, if performing is included along with songwriting, production, and engineering. DAWs make it easier than ever in the history of music to create mediocre work.
post edited by Marah Mag - 2008/07/17 16:13:44
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bapu
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 15:58:41
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Lance,
It was funny. Last night (July 16) my girlfriend and I were sitting at Janns Marketplace listening to this band and the singer was reminding me visually of you. Then I go check out your MySpace page today. Now I know why!
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yep
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 20:50:57
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ORIGINAL: Marah Mag
...DAWs make it easier than ever in the history of music to create mediocre work. Brilliantly stated. There is a certain breed of do-it-all-ers out there who integrate the entire process and do it very well. But not every great songwriter is also a great performer and vice-versa, and not every creative type is equally adept at the technical aspects. There is a lot of overlap and blurriness between songwriting, arrangement, production, and engineering these days, enough to where it can seem like they are all one act. But there is still a big difference between the right-brain creative process and the left-brain stuff of working the computer, keeping track of signal routing, mic placement, reverb decay times, and all the rest of it. It is entirely possible for some people to switch fluidly between all the activities, but it does not always produce the best results. And ironically, a great many of the aspects of DAW that should make creativity easier also have the potential to become frustrating and unnatural obstacles to full-blooded inspiration. For a great many artists, chopping up scratch track into loops and creating arrangements with the computer is simply never going to be as satisfying or as inspiring as woodshedding with a real instrument, playing and hashing out ideas in real-time. This is especially true of bands and small ensembles, I think. Writing and working out songs in the studio, one track, one measure at a time kills the most fertile creative ground for most bands, which is just jamming and finding a groove that evolves organically. And if you're trying to capture perfect sounds at the same time that you're trying to write a song, forget it. By the time you've got the perfect guitar sound or whatever, you're sick of the riff. Then you're re-writing one measure all night, and every time you think you've got the right melody, the sound is lame, your ears are burnt out, you have a headache from trying to remember the compressor settings you used, you haven't taken any notes but you're sure you had the right version two hours ago and so on. The perfect becomes the enemy of the good at every turn. Whatever you do, work fast and keep busy and keep making progress. Don't get stuck on anything for more than a few minutes, move onto something else. You won't get anything perfect all at once (actually, sometimes you will, but it will be sheer accident). Just get something done and move on to the next thing. That's my advice, anyway. Cheers.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 21:07:07
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ORIGINAL: yep
Whatever you do, work fast and keep busy and keep making progress. Don't get stuck on anything for more than a few minutes, move onto something else. You won't get anything perfect all at once (actually, sometimes you will, but it will be sheer accident). Just get something done and move on to the next thing. totally agree. my best stuff usually comes out in a day of recording, or it takes years of polishing. either way, painstakingly re-hashing melodies/riffs has never worked for me. i just play/sing along to what's already there, and those "freestyles" typically turn into something within a couple takes or i go a completely new direction... if it's not working out then it's not going to work out, no point in forcing it. i couldn't agree more with marah's statement on DAWs and mediocrity. unfortunately, as this kind of thing becomes status quo, the payoff for professionally created music will decrease - the listener base is losing the capacity to appreciate the details.
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droddey
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 21:09:01
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The trick is to learn how to separate the two parts, so that you can be almost all in one then almost all in the other. It's definitely doable. Just set up and jam to get the parts tracked, and really have fun with it and feel it. Then, put on the mixing cap and comp good parts and tweak timings and volume envelopes and so forth. Sometimes that means putting down scratch tracks for the fundamental bits, so that you have something stimulating to track to, then going back and replacing the scratch tracks one at a time, which then also have something stimulating to track to, plus you've increased your understanding of the flow of the song. I wouldn't really get nearly as much out of it if I didn't have both sides of the fence to explore. I'm a creative person but I'm also a technical person and I enjoy the challenges of both sides of it a lot. It can definitely be frustrating when you have the creative hat on but you are having to try to figure out how to make that accoustic guitar sound good and it's not. But, it's all part of the learning process. After a couple years, and you've been through the process a good number of times, the payoff will come and then you can start to get what's in your head on disc with nothing and no one getting in the way (but yourself sometimes.) Certainly it's fun to jam with other people, and it can be a fertile area to explore when you throw people from different backgrounds into the blender and flip the switch. I was watching "Classic Albums : A Night at the Opera" the other night, and it's so clear how much of Queen's success came from exactly that dynamic. But it's also interesting to see what will happen now that people can bring their solo visions to fruition in a high quality way. It's interesting to some people exploring one avenue and some exploring the other. For me personally, it's that challenge of hearing something in my head and trying myself to create it. Some nights I want to take something outside and smash it with a hammer. But, on other nights, it's like being up on the arena stage, with the cucumber strapped to the leg and the chest hair carefully coifed, and the adrenaline just pumping like crazy when it's really working and the vision is being captured. Then I get the other fun (though often frustrating part) of just vegging out in front of the computer with all these tracks and trying to make it sound like it should sound. In a way, I think that it's that do it yourself cycle that keeps it fresh. By the time I get bakc to tracking, it's been long enough that I miss it and want to do it. Then by the time I get back to mixing, it's been long enough that I've forgotten how frustrating it is and want to try it again. If I did one of them all the time, I don't think it would work as well, for me anyway. I literally will sit there and do 50, 100, and sometimes up to 150 takes of a part sometimes. And very often it's those last ones that are the best. Something happens and I kind of come around full circle back to inspiration, but with having worked out the part by now, so that I then have both the mojo and the control. And I'll have the chils on every one of those takes.
post edited by droddey - 2008/07/17 21:34:49
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 21:12:30
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i see what you are saying but all i know is that when i have to reach around a portable vocal booth to hit record or to move to some other part of the song (left handed mousing  ) that gets in the way of doing what i want to, which is creating music. i guess i just need an assistant or something that can hit "ctrl-z" "r" repeatedly... 
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Marah Mag
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 22:26:45
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Ctrl-z, r. Exactly. I dunno, if I had to reach around a portable vocal booth I'd never get it done. I like it all at arms distance. But then I also don't use mics for anything but vocals... no amps... no nothing. I record everything right at my desk. I'd rather go acoustic than engineer my own mic'ed-amp recordings.... which is good cos I don't even own an amp, just a guitar and POD. Last year I recorded vocals and didn't even bother with headphones. I just set the mic up in front of my desk, between my monitors, and sang to the mix in the open air. Volume was moderate. The bleed was minimal and well worth it for the convenience (not that headphones are very inconvenient... it's just how it happened to work out.) Sounds like sacrilege but I get more done by taking a NBD approach. I'd rather have 10 quality songs that are reasonably presentable soundwise than half as many in production while I channel Chris Lord-Alge and wonder if this or that plugin would finally make the difference and what would Bruce Swedien think? The approach I'm taking is based on my confidence that by observing a small number of basic rules, most of them common sense, and using my ears, there will be a minimum level of "sound quality" that my projects will not fall below -- and no level they can't be brought up to in a real studio with all the toys and people who know how to use them (but who can't write for shyte.) At least in theory, this lets me capture basic song structure, style, feel, performance, and production concepts without getting hung up on too many things that I have no control over...or... to be really honest... insufficient interest in gaining control over. So I've basically 'downgraded' engineering in the workflow of my production. I still spend lots of time comping and processing and sliding around MIDI, or more often, sliding around sliced audio clips as if they were MIDI events. But that's more a part of composition/arrangement/production than engineering proper. I still spend lots of time adjusting high pass filters, but that's part of the common sense I mentioned, and I think a case could be made that in a pop rock context concepts like complementary EQ are at least as aligned with arrangement and orchestration as with engineering, even though EQ is a basic engineer's tool. The functions blend back and forth. There are no fixed lines and there are no strict rules. So far I'm satisfied with my decision to trust my ears and my taste and my production instincts and to spend more time writing than fighting and compensating for the acoustics of my room and wondering if my NS-10s are really as awful as people say they are. (Just kidding... I love my NS-10s... Im listening to a fantastic TLA/CLA-mixed record on them as I type.... but what makes it great are the songs... not one of them written by either of the L-A bros.....)
post edited by Marah Mag - 2008/07/17 23:40:00
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droddey
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/17 22:59:56
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i see what you are saying but all i know is that when i have to reach around a portable vocal booth to hit record or to move to some other part of the song (left handed mousing ) that gets in the way of doing what i want to, which is creating music. i guess i just need an assistant or something that can hit "ctrl-z" "r" repeatedly... I just got one of those little Tranzport thingies for this purpose. It's wireless, so you can move it around to whereever you are recording. And I sold my rack mounted gear (well all I had was an LA-610) and thew in my tax relief check and went with a 500 style lunchbox setup. So now I should be mobile and able to record in the bathroom or kitchen or wherever, to get the sound I want and to have a simple set of controls to manage the tracking processing. I think it's going to work out pretty well, though I won't have all the bits until tomorrow, then I get to have a nice new toy weekend.
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Brett
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/18 00:04:34
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/18 00:14:02
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ORIGINAL: Marah Mag
Ctrl-z, r. Exactly.
I dunno, if I had to reach around a portable vocal booth I'd never get it done. I like it all at arms distance. But then I also don't use mics for anything but vocals... no amps... no nothing. I record everything right at my desk. I'd rather go acoustic than engineer my own mic'ed-amp recordings.... which is good cos I don't even own an amp, just a guitar and POD. the PVB is a pain but i spend about a 10th of the time with vocals now than i used to - i've got a "standard" EQ that matches my voice which is in my standard sonar template. i do record acoustic guitar with the mic and the booth, that is really annoying. i'm half considering a wireless keyboard that i can hang from the mic stand but that still leaves the issue of moving from one place to another in the project. i've got a POD too - i just can't bring myself to think about mic'ing a cab... Last year I recorded vocals and didn't even bother with headphones. I just set the mic up in front of my desk, between my monitors, and sang to the mix in the open air. Volume was moderate. The bleed was minimal and well worth it for the convenience (not that headphones are very inconvenient... it's just how it happened to work out.) Sounds like sacrilege but I get more done by taking a NBD approach. I'd rather have 10 quality songs that are reasonably presentable soundwise than half as many in production while I channel Chris Lord-Alge and wonder if this or that plugin would finally make the difference and what would Bruce Swedien think? i haven't ditched the headphones yet (well i have for electric, the bleed through the humbuckers is minimal) but i've been tempted. but i track in x-y all the time so i would probably get more bleed, PVB notwithstanding. it does make a difference when you play and sing though, headphones cut you off from what you are doing. The approach I'm taking is based on my confidence that by observing a small number of basic rules, most of them common sense, and using my ears, there will be a minimum level of "sound quality" that my projects will not fall below -- and no level they can't be brought up to in a real studio with all the toys and people who know how to use them (but who can't write for shyte.) i figure if i make it that far i'll probably re-record my stuff anyway so i don't sweat it too much - if i make a couple small pitch or rhythm mistakes i call it good anyway. i will say though that the 4 bass traps and PVB i got have made a world of difference in recording quality. dropped my EQ'ing time to like 1/10th of what it used to be, just because there's not nearly as much crap to scoop out. At least in theory, this lets me capture basic song structure, style, feel, performance, and production concepts without getting hung up on too many things that I have no control over...or... to be really honest... insufficient interest in gaining control over.
So I've basically 'downgraded' engineering in the workflow of my production. I still spend lots of time comping and processing and sliding around MIDI, or more often, sliding around sliced audio clips as if they were MIDI events. But that's more a part of composition/arrangement/production than engineering proper. i won't say that i regret the time i spent messing with engineering, it makes it a lot easier for me to sit down and knock out a song in a day since i've got everything set up. but i used to spend so much time engineering that i started to suck at playing the guitar...  now though i spend very little time engineering and a lot of time doing what i actually like. I still spend lots of time adjusting high pass filters, but that's part of the common sense I mentioned, and I think a case could be made that in a pop rock context concepts like complementary EQ are at least as aligned with arrangement and orchestration as with engineering, even though EQ is a basic engineer's tool. The functions blend back and forth. There are no fixed lines and there are no strict rules. So far I'm satisfied with my decision to trust my ears and my taste and my production instincts and to spend more time writing than fighting and compensating for the acoustics of my room and wondering if my NS-10s are really as awful as people say they are. (Just kidding... I love my NS-10s... Im listening to a fantastic TLA/CLA-mixed record on them as I type.... but what makes it great are the songs... not one of them written by either of the L-A bros.....) sounds like a plan. i don't have any NS-10s though. just some behringer truths. i do complimentary EQ but that's another thing i've got set up already in my sonar template - i almost always use the same drumkit (DFHS), the same bass patch, i only have two acoustic guitars and one electric, so once everything is dialed in i can bring that setup to just about any song and get it halfway there without even touching a knob.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/18 00:15:05
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ORIGINAL: droddey
i see what you are saying but all i know is that when i have to reach around a portable vocal booth to hit record or to move to some other part of the song (left handed mousing ) that gets in the way of doing what i want to, which is creating music. i guess i just need an assistant or something that can hit "ctrl-z" "r" repeatedly...
I just got one of those little Tranzport thingies for this purpose. It's wireless, so you can move it around to whereever you are recording. And I sold my rack mounted gear (well all I had was an LA-610) and thew in my tax relief check and went with a 500 style lunchbox setup. So now I should be mobile and able to record in the bathroom or kitchen or wherever, to get the sound I want and to have a simple set of controls to manage the tracking processing. I think it's going to work out pretty well, though I won't have all the bits until tomorrow, then I get to have a nice new toy weekend. i might actually look into that if i can't figure out a way to move around in a project with just a keyboard...
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droddey
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/18 01:55:35
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Everyone seems to speak highly of them, SONAR folks I mean, so it seems that it works well with SONAR and does what it's supposed to do. I don't mind the keyboard at all. I can get around easily on it. But finding the right spot to record something is a big part of it, so I needed to decouple myself from the computer during tracking.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: yep's guide to better vocal recordings
2008/07/18 09:56:05
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yeah i actually have a closet i can stand in now and i wanted to record some vocals in there - i mean the sound is unbelievably good. at least i think it is... never know until you print it... but that usb keyboard thing would do the trick i think.
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