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The Maillard Reaction
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2016/09/13 07:29:37 (permalink)

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post edited by Caa2 - 2016/11/24 07:29:37


#1
JonD
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/13 11:05:43 (permalink)
I find it odd that Paragon's Backup and Recovery doesn't include the disk cloning facility.  Unless the two packages together cost the same or near that of the competition, they're just milking their customers IMO.
 
Both EaseUS Todo and Macrium's software, for example, include disk cloning:
 
http://www.easeus.com/backup-software/personal.html
 
http://www.macrium.com/pages/comparisons.aspx
 

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#2
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/13 11:30:41 (permalink)
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post edited by Caa2 - 2016/11/24 07:22:20


#3
JonD
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/13 13:42:39 (permalink)
Caa2
Hi,
I did not say that it does not, but I did say that it only seems to vaugely indicate that it does.

Thank you.



 
I wasn't referring to you at all.  I looked at the the Paragon user manual and there's no section on disk cloning so I think that's a fair indication it doesn't have it.

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slartabartfast
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/13 14:33:08 (permalink)
There is a difference in the terminology between a "partition or disk imaging" and "disk cloning." An image of a partition or an entire disk reduces the logical structure and contents to a new file that can be moved or stored on another location and restored to a new location in its original form. Cloning involves directly copying the same items to another hard drive in real time without necessarily passing through an intermediate translation to a new file format. Any program that will image and restore a system partition should be able to "clone" (make a copy that is functionally identical) a drive so long as you have someplace to store and retrieve the image, and the image can be stored for future use. On the other hand true cloning requires you to have both drives connected at the same time and leaves you with two drives that can substitute for each other if properly connected to the machine.
#5
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/13 15:38:53 (permalink)
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post edited by Caa2 - 2016/11/24 07:22:32


#6
abacab
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/13 16:03:05 (permalink)
Caa2
Hi,
 I am considering upgrading my Acronis True Image 2013 license to the latest greatest "2017" version, but it seems like all the features that have been added since "2013" are of little or no interest to me.
 
 The prospect of upgrading just to load more bloat has inspired me to consider alternatives. Paragon Backup and Recovery seems like a good candidate.
 
 Paragon offers a Backup and Recovery product as well as a Drive Cloning product. I have just read both manuals and am left with the vague impression that Backup and Recovery has "backup features" as well as drive cloning features while the Drive Cloning product is simplified and dedicated to making images for clones.
 
 With Acronis True Image I have never used the "backup features" and have instead opted for complete system partition clone images.
 
 I am thinking about going with Paragon's Backup and Recovery 16 and doing the same.
 
 Does any one have some experience and thoughts about the Paragon products? 
 
 Thank you.




Or consider saving some bucks and bloat, by using the Windows built-in image utility.  This has been available since Windows 7.  I have used Norton Ghost and Acronis in the past, but I prefer easy and cheap, but effective :-)
 
Backup:
http://www.howtogeek.com/...em-image-in-windows-7/
Restore:
http://www.howtogeek.com/...-from-an-image-backup/
 
Pros:
Free
Saves the image file in a VHD format (can be mounted as a drive letter in Windows Disk Management, for browsing and recovering individual files without a 3rd party software).
https://davescomputertips...system-image-as-a-vhd/
 
Cons:
You will need to do your own image file management (archiving).
 
I believe that it is also possible to schedule image backups if you setup a backup with Windows Backup and Restore.  Select the "let me choose" option and check off "include a system image of drives".  I have never used this as I keep my backup drives offline. I just plug them in and manually start an image when I am ready.
 
post edited by abacab - 2016/09/13 16:34:23

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#7
The Maillard Reaction
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. 2016/09/13 21:26:17 (permalink)
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post edited by Caa2 - 2017/04/09 14:23:40


#8
abacab
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/13 23:19:53 (permalink)
Caa2
FWIW, I see that Paragon Backup and Recovery 16 is free as a promotion for the next few weeks.




Well the "free" stuff caught my attention. 
 
I took a look at the website and the manual.  Looks interesting, & seems capable of everything Windows has, with a few extra features thrown in.
 
PC Mag review here: http://www.pcmag.com/arti.e2/0,2817,2413587,00.asp
 
I always use just a full disk/volume image backup.  I gave up on file/folder backups years ago after several files failed to either backup or restore because they were in use.  I also find incremental or differential backups hard to keep track of.
 
With HDD gigabytes cheap these days I find it simpler to stick with full volume images.  Makes it easier to know what you need if you have to restore an image.
 
Might have to download Paragon and check it out. 
 
The main difference that I see with Paragon vs. the native Windows image is the recovery environment needed to restore an image to a failed system.  The Windows image recovery can be run from any Windows recovery disk, or the Windows installation media.  The Paragon image restore must be run by booting from the WinPE recovery media.  Always test your system with the recovery media to ensure you can boot with it and locate the recovery image.
 
In addition, Paragon allows you to accomplish backup, restore, or copying of Windows BitLocker encrypted volumes, but only when they are unlocked. Until that the locked volumes will be recognized in the program’s interface as “Unknown”.
 
 

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#9
fireberd
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 06:38:46 (permalink)
There was recent poll on the tenforums.com (Win 10 forum).  Overwhelmingly the backup of choice, in that poll, is Macrium.  52 for Macrium, 2 for Paragon, 8 for Acronis, 9 for Aomei, 7 for EaseUS, and 6 for Windows 10 backup.
 
Macrium has a free version and I suspect that is why so many reported using Macrium (I have a paid version of Macrium that I use).

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#10
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 07:34:45 (permalink)
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post edited by Caa2 - 2016/11/24 07:22:46


#11
fireberd
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 08:13:44 (permalink)
Bit Locker is a manual option.  Not automatic or mandatory.
 

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#12
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 08:29:37 (permalink)
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post edited by Caa2 - 2016/11/24 07:22:53


#13
Jim Roseberry
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 09:44:27 (permalink)
Backup/Restore is a process that's best done outside the OS.
Paragon and Acronis both work fine.
 
We've used True Image for 12+ years.
Has never failed... and that's across many many machines
 
What I personally like about True Image is using the "Bootable Rescue Disc".
No need to install True Image (runs directly from the Rescue Disc).
You've got all the features of True Image... with a point/click interface.
Super clean/lean means of backup/restore (no scheduling services running in the background)
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#14
fireberd
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 11:08:29 (permalink)
Macrium has a bootable (WinPE) disc or flash drive option, too.
 

"GCSG Productions"
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#15
abacab
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 14:47:58 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Backup/Restore is a process that's best done outside the OS.
Paragon and Acronis both work fine.
 
We've used True Image for 12+ years.
Has never failed... and that's across many many machines
 
What I personally like about True Image is using the "Bootable Rescue Disc".
No need to install True Image (runs directly from the Rescue Disc).
You've got all the features of True Image... with a point/click interface.
Super clean/lean means of backup/restore (no scheduling services running in the background)
 
 


Ran across this free ebook "Backup for Dummies"
http://promo.acronis.com/Backup-for-Dummies-NAM-2014-Email.html?sfdc_campaignID=70150000000wa9M
 

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#16
abacab
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 17:29:10 (permalink)
Caa2
I'll probably ask about Macrium in another thread.
 
Does a typical Windows 10 install have BitLocker encrypted volumes or is Bitlocking the result of specific security measures?
 
Thank you.




Well after reviewing their user guides, it appears that both Macrium Reflect Home v6 (not free - $69.95) and Paragon Backup and Recovery 16 (free promotion until 11/01/2016, then $39.95) work basically the same way. 
 
Each requires the creation of WinPE based recovery media to boot from to perform an offline image recovery. They can also support Windows Bitlocker encrypted drives.
 
I think I may look into testing Paragon as a free alternative to the native Windows 10 image utility.
 
Macrium Free is a stripped down version of the paid Macrium Home edition, but it may offer enough for some users.  Upgrade to Home if you need AES encryption for your backups.
 
I think that the GUI and the user guide are friendlier with Macrium.  The Paragon user guide is minimal, plus additional info on their website and support forum is lacking. But overall it looks functional.
 
And then, Acronis does it all.  Recovery media, AES encryption for backups, disk cloning, cloud backups, good documentation. It's easy to see why Acronis is PC Mag Editor's Choice. But at $49.99, I suppose it should be good
http://www.pcmag.com/arti.e2/0,2817,2411663,00.asp

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#17
fireberd
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 17:52:15 (permalink)
I used to use Acronis.  (about 5 years).  It failed me twice (two different times), with verified backups, trying to do restores.  Even the bootable rescue disc (Linux version) failed to boot/load Acronis properly.  Only the WinPE version would work.  However as it failed me twice, I didn't give it a 3rd chance.  The last Acronis version I had was the 2012 version.
 
At the time (with the 2012 version) the WinPE creation procedure was very clunky and lots of manual work.  Macrium (paid 3 PC license version that I have) had utility to create the WinPE bootable disc that required minimal user input.  Almost all of it, including downloading the WinPE, was automated.  I have both a bootable Macrium (WinPE) CD and a bootable Macrium (WinPE) Flash Drive.
 
 
 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
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Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
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#18
abacab
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/14 22:51:01 (permalink)
fireberd
I used to use Acronis.  (about 5 years).  It failed me twice (two different times), with verified backups, trying to do restores.  Even the bootable rescue disc (Linux version) failed to boot/load Acronis properly.  Only the WinPE version would work.  However as it failed me twice, I didn't give it a 3rd chance.  The last Acronis version I had was the 2012 version.
 
At the time (with the 2012 version) the WinPE creation procedure was very clunky and lots of manual work.  Macrium (paid 3 PC license version that I have) had utility to create the WinPE bootable disc that required minimal user input.  Almost all of it, including downloading the WinPE, was automated.  I have both a bootable Macrium (WinPE) CD and a bootable Macrium (WinPE) Flash Drive.
 



Your story reinforces my feeling that the native Windows 10 image utility may be the most dependable, what with all the recent changes from MBR to GUID Partition Table (GPT), and the BIOS changes to UEFI in the Windows boot environment.
 
I used to depend on 3rd party utilities to cover this area, but have tested the Windows features and they just work very well.  Have been using them since Windows 7, and the Windows 10 recovery boot allows access to most of the latest Windows troubleshooting and system restore functions that you will need.
 
I feel that Windows image file formats that allow me to mount the image backups in Windows as drive volumes, and then browse and recover files and folders, may be available longer than 3rd party formats that may go out of business eventually.  Or fail because of some silly incompatibility with Windows.

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#19
fireberd
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/15 06:20:13 (permalink)
I'm not using UEFI or GPT on my system.  The BIOS is UEFI but I originally installed Win 7 and Win 8 non UEFI.  When I upgraded the 8.1 to 10 I kept the non UEFI installation.  Too much of a hassle, right now, to do a clean UEFI install.  (I have a triple boot system, Win 10, Win 7 and Win 10 Insider Preview).  If/when I decide its time for a new PC, I'll use the UEFI.

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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#20
Jim Roseberry
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/15 08:51:21 (permalink)
abacab
 
And then, Acronis does it all.  Recovery media, AES encryption for backups, disk cloning, cloud backups, good documentation. It's easy to see why Acronis is PC Mag Editor's Choice. But at $49.99, I suppose it should be good
http://www.pcmag.com/arti.e2/0,2817,2411663,00.asp




 
You can catch True Image on sale for about half that amount.
Sometimes you can get the year old version for free.
For most folks, the 2015 versions on up will work fine.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#21
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/15 10:12:44 (permalink)
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post edited by Caa2 - 2016/11/24 07:23:08


#22
kitekrazy1
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/19 21:07:37 (permalink)
Acronis 2010 still works for me on older systems running W10.
 
New machines have 2016.

Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4,  NVidia 750ti, AP2496
 
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#23
dangao
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/09/20 08:12:32 (permalink)
Paragon is a stable but old backup software. It seems upgrading slowly since its official website seems very old! While, there come to be many new backup and restore software, besides Acronis true image, there are still Aomei backupper, Easeus todo backup, Macrium reflect, etc. Moreover, there are free editions for common home users to try, such as aomei backupper standard
All for you to choose!
post edited by dangao - 2016/09/20 08:34:56
#24
Aldridge
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/10/18 03:42:16 (permalink)
Seems that it doesn't support clone an image. And I heard Easeus free copy won't allow you to restore computer from a clone image(Until you do so, you will see the alert). And I trust some powerful third-party review like , PCAdvisor's Backup Recovery - AOMEI  it's a good piece of advise.
 
After trying free backup software, I like it , since it provides a complete backup & recovery solution, most importantly it has no ads like other freeware do.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/10/18 06:55:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby craigb 2016/10/30 04:32:30
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post edited by Caa2 - 2016/11/24 07:23:18


#26
BobF
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/10/23 16:04:08 (permalink)
fireberd
Macrium has a bootable (WinPE) disc or flash drive option, too.
 




I ended up on a paid version of Macrium Reflect.  I used ATI for a year and hated using it, and the first time I needed it the restore failed at the 99% point.  I don't like the ATI options for managing disk space and I hate having to dismiss a login box that I never intend to log into.
 
Reflect is really smart about a lot of stuff.  The only thing I don't like compared to ATI is that Reflect doesn't flush the used memory cache when it gets done.  That is the thing I liked most about ATI ... but it wasn't enough.

Bob  --
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Illegitimi non carborundum
--
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#27
craigb
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/10/30 04:34:54 (permalink)
I'm thinking of buying some new backup software next month (after payday) and popped over here to start a thread just like this one!  Needless to say, this has been very useful - to a degree.  I still don't know which one to go with!  LOL.
 
 

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#28
BobF
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/10/30 09:28:32 (permalink)
Get Reflect FREE to try it out.  Then buy the full version once you have that warm, fuzzy feeling

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#29
bapu
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Re: How about Paragon Backup and Recovery 16? 2016/10/30 11:31:17 (permalink)
Caa2
Hi,
 I am considering upgrading my Acronis True Image 2013 license to the latest greatest "2017" version, but it seems like all the features that have been added since "2013" are of little or no interest to me.
 
 The prospect of upgrading just to load more bloat has inspired me to consider alternatives. Paragon Backup and Recovery seems like a good candidate.
 
 Paragon offers a Backup and Recovery product as well as a Drive Cloning product. I have just read both manuals and am left with the vague impression that Backup and Recovery has "backup features" as well as drive cloning features while the Drive Cloning product is simplified and dedicated to making images for clones.
 
 With Acronis True Image I have never used the "backup features" and have instead opted for complete system partition clone images.
 
 I am thinking about going with Paragon's Backup and Recovery 16 and doing the same.
 
 Does any one have some experience and thoughts about the Paragon products? 
 
 Thank you.


I just used the 2013 product on my father-in-laws computer to Universal Restore to a new mobo. I needed to use 2013 as it supported Vista as 2015 dropped Vista support (they're in their 90s and changing to Win 10 at this point would be far more hassles than it would be worth, sometimes you cannot teach old dogs new tricks).
 
 
#30
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