1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic?

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hellogoodbye
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2012/03/13 03:30:01 (permalink)

1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic?

I wonder what you guys do with breathing in sounds on vocal tracks.

I am working on a few projects with badly recorded vocals (which can't be rerecorded due to circumstances). I can get rid of the noise and hum very easily (it's amazing what you can do about that nowadays!), but now I am stuck with two problems:

1. in between (parts of) sentences I hear the singer breathing in. The thing is that I don't hear that everywhere. Not at the start of the verses or the chorus, etc. Now it's a bit odd to not hear breathing in when the singer starts to sing but to only hear it in between here and there. If you know what I mean. 

Now when I play the entire track the breathing in can't really be heard, unless you pay close attention. I wonder if I should gate out all breath sounds, also because they are different everytime (short, hard, long, soft, etc.)

While I was thinking about it I noticed I don't even know how this is done on most records... I know some ballads that have obvious breathing, but a lot of songs you never hear breathing...

So, what would you do: edit the breathing out or let it in, even though it's not everywhere?

2. Apart from some popping, I also have some parts where the singer maybe touched the mic or blew into it too much while singing. It sounds a bit as if he was standing outside in the wind, if you know what I mean.

Anything I can do about that...? I can't think of a solution for it. Usually you harldly hear this due to the instrumentation, but there is one slow song that starts of with a piano and there you can hear it quite clearly.

Thanks for all the tips in advance, and please... do not simply post that I should rerecord the vocals because, as I said, that's impossible due to circumstances.

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    osd
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 03:34:15 (permalink)
    I like to take all the breaths out manually, usually leaving one or two for effect. Magnifying the waveform, the breaths all look pretty distinctive in shape and easily taken out. I don't trust gates for it, but that's just me.

    As far as the 2nd one, you could put an analyzer on that track and see what frequency that pop is at, then surgically notch it out with eq. a De-Esser might get it too. If it's too obnoxious, neither may work, and maybe would need a volume envelope right there to beat it back. Kind of depends how it interacts with the vocals, how crazy you can get.


    post edited by osd - 2012/03/13 03:36:45

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    ChuckC
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 07:24:17 (permalink)
    Where it sounds good for effect I'll leave them in.  If not, Slip edit them out.  Split clips, crop,  and fade I/O.  As far as the poping/blowing in the mic the above suggestions are good but in the future you should use a pop filter.

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    bitflipper
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 13:33:52 (permalink)
    V-Vocal is a very fast and convenient way to edit breath noise that allows you to audition the changes before committing. Alternatively, a volume envelope will do the trick without being destructive (just more work).

    I usually do not remove all breath noise, especially on the lead vocal. Better to lower them just enough to not be distracting. It's an important part of the performance, even when only left in at subliminal levels. Abrupt silences between phrases sound unnatural.





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    spacealf
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 14:39:42 (permalink)
    I think you are suppose to sing correctly first. Perhaps some lessons would help.
    #5
    ChuckC
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 18:12:20 (permalink)
    Spacealf - That's an odd statement from you bud...?   It doesn't sound like it's a question about (or even mentioning) poor singing performance.  The singer was breathing.   Yes being taught proper mic techniques would help but that doesn't mean vocal lessons.   That is experiance.   Backing off a mic for strong passages, moving in closer for soft ones, the use of a pop filter and turning slightly off axis for B's, & P's etc. are all things that need to be taught and practiced.

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    bandontherun19
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 18:35:16 (permalink)
    "what about blowing in the mic?"

    Not unless it takes me to dinner first.
     
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    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 21:22:10 (permalink)
    I tend to find more processed sounding songs will have all breaths slip edited out, and more natural sounding raw songs tend to include these noises. Emotive songs especially can include lots of breath. Have a listen to Halelujah by Jeff Buckley. Very raw sound and the breaths are VERY important to the realism and emotion that this song conveys. I would go as far as saying they are a vital component to this song. Your traditional pop song probably has none.

    Conclusion, it depends on the song and your decision as a producer. Use none, some, or all. Just control them with volume automation if you do so they can work with the song and not against it.

    Pop songs often go unnaturally from a verse right into the chorus with a clear overlaping of takes. The singer would NEED a break here and would have a breath when playing live, but for that processed pop sound, you don't need it.


    As for editing, I'll typically comp the hell out of my vocal takes so everything is already chopped up phrase by phrase. Slip editing the uncecessary breaths out is the norm for me and my music. I'll only include them if it helps from typically an emotional perspective in that part of the song.


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    spacealf
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/13 21:35:35 (permalink)
    Okay, then let's take the breath sounds of playing a flute. Some people like that, as well as singing. I guess it then depends on how close the mic is and how the breathe should be softer than the singing.
    #9
    hellogoodbye
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 05:41:51 (permalink)
    Ok, thanks for all the advice and tips! Although I do think some breaths here and there should sound good, the poor recordings don't allow me to use them, really... Because IF I should use them for a dramatic effect, I would need breathes in places where there quite often is no breathe at all in the current recording... and I don't feel like ADDING breathe in appropriate places...  So I think the best thing to do is edit them all out. (I use WavePad for that btw: cheap program but works like a charm, also for noise removal.)

    About the singing lessons: the singing was good, the mic technique was awful. (Note: I didn't make those recordings...  I only have to make the best of them...)
    post edited by hellogoodbye - 2012/03/14 05:43:59

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    John T
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 09:32:36 (permalink)
    There's a massive difference between a top class singer with good microphone technique breathing in a natural and musical way, and a bunch of badly recorded gasps. Rule of thumb, I think, is that if you were recording Dusty Springfield in Abbey Road, you'd probably leave them in. If you're recording your mate's band in your spare room, just edit all that crap out.

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    NW Smith
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 09:48:20 (permalink)
    I will work on the vocal track in Soundforge and either get rid of or lower the volume of the breathing. You have to make sure you do it in a way that will sound natural. One other thing - while the breath sound might not be noticeable in the mix - when you put it all together and add compression or limiting - the breathing sound might emerge and sound harsh.

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    bitflipper
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 10:18:40 (permalink)
    I think you are suppose to sing correctly first. Perhaps some lessons would help.

    I've had singing lessons. But not once did my teacher suggest a technique for avoiding the need to suck in air! 


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    Philip
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 10:59:21 (permalink)
    Yeh! ... condensor mics can pick up a lot of air artifacts for me ... which need to be cleaned out.  Air artifacts are seriously bad for my mixes.

    Besides the pop filter ... I oft am forced to clean vocs using the dreaded Waves zNoise or xNoise remover (with its 32-bit jack-bridging and other antics (hahahaha) ).  Hopefully you have a better VST noise cleaner.

    Sometimes after cleaning vocs, they sound a bit sterile alone, but their essence(s) do fit well in the mix.

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    timidi
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 11:28:23 (permalink)
    Never blow into or at a mic.

    as far as breaths go, treat them with the same respect you would treat the notes (unless they deserve disrespect).

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    Starise
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 13:53:14 (permalink)
     Early on I attempted edit breaths out of vocal tracks. If the wavefrom isn't exactly cut in the right place(if some is left at the front) you will get artifacts that are worse than leaving the sound in. It can be done successfully if done carefully.

      I tried gating and wasn't really happy with the outcome of that. To get a gate adjusted right can be tricky. I have done things like turn my head when inhaling.If the breathing is very faint there is no problem leaving it in IMO if it is covered my the other tracks.

    One other thing I do occasionally is use a good quality dynamic mike instead of a condenser. My dynamics don't pick up as much of that detail as a condenser. You don't need to hear 15khz on a vocal anyways in many cases.

     If the sound really sticks out and takes away from the mix I might consider a re-track of the vocal after giving the vocalist a few tips like don't make those loud sucking noises into the mike and it's best not to hit it while singing :)



     Bit I'll need to try Vvocal for that,sounds like a good idea.

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    #16
    hellogoodbye
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 17:24:51 (permalink)
    I edited the breathing sounds out with WavePad, which I also used for the noise reduction. Heck, reduction...? The noise isn't reduced, it is completely gone with that WavePad noise remover! Awesome program for an incredible low price (compared to others).
    post edited by hellogoodbye - 2012/03/14 17:26:21

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/14 19:52:25 (permalink)
    Some breath sounds will tend to make the song and singer more intimate to the listener. 

    How much and whether this is a good thing depends more on the song.  Too much and it is very distracting. 

    I use the mute/process audio function to remove it where I don't want it....(destructively)

    It's a really good idea to use a POP filter and sing at a slight angle past the mic, not into it. That eliminates the pops.  Blowing into a mic is NOT a good habit to develop as some ribbon mics can be seriously damaged by blowing into them.

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    #18
    LpMike75
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/17 02:11:26 (permalink)
    Ive yet to meet a vocal track that couldnt make use of a volume envelope somewhere in the track...assuming your are already throwing in volume envelopes I would suggest Bitflippers idea of just lowering the breathing.  I like leveling volumes manually before throwing on any contraptions and doohickeys.  



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    notdeafyet
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    Re:1. Breathing in, editing out...? 2. And what about blowing in the mic? 2012/03/19 13:16:07 (permalink)
    For soft songs, I usually keep the breaths, and move some around if needed, but because I'm enhancing the air with EQ, the breaths sound best at about half the loudness of the original. For the mid-intensity songs, I just take 'em all out. And for the loud songs, where the breaths are part of the emotion, I leave them in or even enhance them. Again, genre has something to do with it. If you listen to Christian music, it seems like everyone likes to hear those breaths loud and clear, but not so much with other music. It's like a loud-breath fad... But the track you're dealing with, with plosives and intermittent noises, I don't know... maybe you could mix the whole thing kind of rough, put it in a bar-type environment, and try to sell the excitement of a live vibe? Maybe that would allow the song to be enjoyed, but in a context with different expectations...
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