3D Animation

Looks interesting. What sort of copy protection do they use? I'd rather not order if it's going to be a challenge-response hassle.

I've been considering something like this for a long time, but capable software was always a bit spendy.
If they are willing to do something this crazy with the pricing, I'm in.
Back in the day, I used to do animations on the edges of book pages.
Hundreds of hand drawn images, but you could get several minutes out of a good size novel. 
I suspect the learning curve on this makes Sonar look like a cakewalk
Thanks for the heads up, Mesh. I hope they(we) reach the goal.
btw, there is a downloadable demo on the main page.

I have used Blender for quite a while now and from looking at the documentation of this product I would be 99.999 % sure this is a recoding of the blender source code which is freely available to anyone to use and yes even to make money on it like these people are doing. The only stipulation is that they have to say that it is the Blender source code used under the GPL liscence (I believe is what it's called).
 
Save your money and just download Blender.
I will warn you that probably this program and definately Blender do have a bit of a learning curve to them. Blender is not a point and click and see it walk around type of software but it is a very powerful piece of software once you get a handle on it.
 
Blender has very good forums and I would say with reasonable certainty millions of users worldwide.
 
I use it and I love it. It is very fun and enjoyable once you get the hang of it but be advised that it will eat into your music making time if you find it is something you enjoy doing because it can be very addictive especially after you've created your first 3d masterpiece. What you feel is a masterpiece anyway.
 
edit:
I should add that blender is in a fluid state of development (very actively developed) and on the verge of a major version update but don't let that discourage you, it is very stable.
 
I also have 3dsmax but we won't talk about how much that cost. Blender is definately a great program and there are very few programs of any kind that offers the features it does for free.
 
Look at some of the open source movies that have been made by the Blender Foundation to get a feel for what can be accomplished with it. The latest is Sintel which you might can find on the internet to watch for free. The one before that was Big Buck Bunny, really I'm not joking that is the name of it. You should be able to find it pretty easily since it's been out a while.
 
Dee

Keebo


+ 1 for Blender

Especially now that the GUI is more user friendly in the beta version IMHO.

I completely agree but I don't want people to think that this beta is like most other software beta's.
Blender has been around for quite a while and is very stable.
The beta is in regard to the new 2.6 version that is being developed.
After more looking around on the Messiah site even the character sillouhette on the about page is a character created in Blender.
I do not see the Blender GPL listed in the license but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is not Blender with a different GUI.
 
Thanks Mesh for bringing this topic up.
I'm not trying to slam your recommendation. Others may indeed want to try the software you listed and that is fine. My only intent is to point out that Blender is probably all that this program is if not more and it costs nothing and has a large user base that will help out if or when you get stuck with an issue or something you don't understand.

RobertB,
No you only need one. That is another beauty of Blender you can unzip the file to a folder and click the blender.exe file and your off to the world of 3D.
It makes no changes to the registry. If you don't like it just delete the folder.
The installer does the same thing except that the process is automated for you with an installer. I actually think the zip file is a more elegant solution for installing.
 
The installer doesn't necessarily put everything in the same folder which is okay if your pretty good working with folders and know where all your stuff is. If your not "folder and directory literate" you may not understand what the installer is asking.
I always go zip.
Another advantage is they update pretty regular and being able to delete the folders contents and just unzip the new version is just too easy (as in a good way) to maintain.
 
Actually Blender was developed by Ton Roosendaal in 1995 while he was co-owner of the Dutch animation studio NeoGeo. I have the history of it in a Blender book I got a few years ago.
 
Messiah does appear to be unrelated to Blender.
I am tempted to go for the $40 pro version but I'm not to keen on giving them my money and hope they reach their goal of whatever that number is and if they don't I wonder how long it will take to get your money back. Looks like a way for them to gather an email list of potential customers if they don't meet the unknown goal.
But hey, to each his on.
It looks like an interesting program.
 
RobertB, 
If you have any more questions about Blender I'll be glad to help if I can.
 
Dee
 
edit: spelling

Mesh,
I don't know any details about Messiah other than what I have seen on their web site. I did notice an absence of Modeling being one of the features listed but I'm not sure if it has modeling capabities of not.
 
What you might want to keep in mind is that if your starting out in 3D it is a huge benefit to have a community that can help you out along the learning experience. The first 3D program I ever learned was Blender. In the beginning I read many opinons online ranging from it's the greatest program ever to it's just too hard and complicated to try to learn.
 
While it is a very feature rich program, like any program this does create complexity. That's where the Blender community is an invaluable "free" resource to get you over the learning humps so to speak. There are many many very knowledgable users on their forums and tons of free tutorials on the internet. The only downside right now is the interface is a little different than what you will find in the older tutorials but the basic principles still apply just the same.
The Blender GUI of today is much more user friendly than it was when I first learned it which is a good thing for everyone.
 
As far as getting Messiah as opposed to Blender or getting both, that is somewhat of a personal decision that only you can make. I personally don't like the fact that they want the money now and if they don't reach their goal then you get your money back. I would feel more comfortable if it was handled like some of the group buys around here (the music industry)  where your card isn't charged until the group buy is over. Looks to me like they needed some quick cash to keep the lights on. Of course thats just speculation but at any rate it doesn't set very well with me. One of those too good to be true kind of deals.
 
Regardless of what you decide about messiah, as someone who has gone through learning Blender, I would suggest that you get Blender for a few of reasons.
 
* The biggest is its free and has been for years and more than likely will be for some time to come, although I have no crystal ball so who knows what the future holds in that regard.
 
* It is very heavily developed by many developers around the world. So I think it will be around for a while longer.
 
* With the fact that Blender costs you nothing if you decide that 3d just isn't what you want to spend your time on you've lost no money only the time you've invested learning the program but with that time you have gained knowledge of a Craft and Art that a price can't be placed on many times.
 
Once you've learned Blender, going to another 3D program will be much easier because most of the principles are the same with the exception of some specific features in the different 3D packages.
My suggestion also would be to choose one or the other and concentrate on it in the beginning. Moving from one program to the other especially while learning can get overwhelming and frustrating because while the priciples are the same rarely are the programs GUI laid out the same.
 
One thing that I found several times in learning Blender was to try to get it out of your mind that the process is going to always be complicated. I found myself at times trying to make the procedure more complicated than it actually was because I was looking for a solution that I felt was probably going to be complex and convoluted when in fact it was so easy I had overlooked the solution. Of course this isn't always the case but it bit me more than once when I first began trying to learn Blender. 
 
The thing you will need first and foremost is a conviction and genuine desire, even love or passion, whatever you want to call it to want to learn how to make things in 3D. This was something that for some reason I have always wanted to do so the many hours I spent learning Blender and then 3dsMax was not a chore for me it was enjoyable and extremely satisfying especially once you reach a point of being able to create things in 3D space and make them move around and do almost anything the mind can imagine.
 
Keep in mind that these programs are not only used for creating 3D animations but also a 3D scene where nothing is animated. It is just a scene that has been created in 3D space that you have the ability to move the camera around in, anywhere you want to put it, and render out an image file like a .jpg or .tiff and other formats. My avatar is one of these 3D scenes.
 
My point is there will be many hours of learning involved before a beginner is ready to jump into a very involved animation. Sure you can make 3D spheres bounce around pretty easy but a walking character is a whole different ball game. But before long you will be able to make a 3D scene, albeit simple at first, but that is where the bug (desire) will hit you or it wont. If you have created a scene of something that came purely from your mind, something you imagined, and you see it on the monitor and print it out and you look at it and say "That's the coolest shet I've ever seen" then you have the bug. It can be a very gratifying experience all the way around and it will make you have a whole new respect for the people who do make the great 3D animated movies in this time that we live in.
 
I have got to shut up. I could talk about this stuff for hours. I hope I've helped or at least given you a few points to think about.
If you have anymore questions let me know. I'll try to scale down the answers next time.
 
Dee
 
edit: spelling

Thanks Dee for the indepth info....it's appreciated!!! Some folks over at the KVR site suggested to get Blender (for modelling etc..) & Messiah to render... Here's a quote from there:
" IIRs wrote:
Any chance of a simple explanation (for an animation noob) of exactly what this can do?


Sure.

In 3D Animation, you have several steps:

Besides coming up with the idea and planning to begin with, you do the following:

Step 1 - create the models necessary for your animation, such as a car, storefront, city, character, etc. Think of the real world - think of a street corner next to a park. Now think of all the objects, people and creatures that make up that park, such as roads, stores, signs, birds, walkways, chairs, benches, lights, etc. The more you put in there, the more like real life it becomes.

You need a MODELLER for this - or you can buy/download them from existing services and websites. Some 3D animation programs (Maya, 3D Studio, Carrara Pro, Lightwave 3D, Cinema 4D) have modelling facilities built in.

Step 2 - bring them into a 3D animation program to begin (if not using an all-in-one program).

If you have characters, such as people, dogs, cats, boxes that walk around, etc. you need to RIG them - that is, define their bones - so that they can walk, talk, move, etc.

Step 3 - Setup your camera and lights. Like video recording, you need a camera (or two or more for 3D Stereoscopic) to record the video and lighting to see what you are recording. Also set up your scene with backdrops, props, etc.

Step 4 - Animate your objects in the scene. This is done by a wide variety of tools in your 3D animation software.

Step 5 - Render your scene. This is the mathematical part and can take a VERY long time for complex renders. Your results will vary with how good you are and how much you have learned. Programs like Carrara make rendering really easy since you can bring in objects and render them and get instant feedback because Carrara includes cameras and lights automatically.

All these steps will be needed to go over many times before have a completed project.

Project Messiah does all of the above except for modelling. However, the HARDEST thing there is in 3D animation is animating characters. If you ever watched a 3D animated movie (Monsters vs. Aliens, etc), then you have seen characters being animated and looking like real people - almost. Even recent movies like Tron 2 uses 3D Animation for almost everything - evil Flynn was not real - he was a digital actor using old footage of jeff bridges mapped onto the 3D object and then animated.

Project Messiah is one of the BEST programs on the planet for animating characters - it was made to do exactly and only that. It can now do so much more, but at its heart is animating 3D characters.

Anyone familiar with Animation:Master will LOVE Messiah, not because of splines, but because of ease of use specifically for character animation. However, unlike A:M, Messiah is WAY more powerful and was actually created to work alongside Lightwave 3D - and is even a plugin that CAN work inside Maya, 3D Studio, Lightwave and Cinema 4D. It is also a stand alone application and very powerful in its own right.

For this price, it is a STUPID EASY decision for anyone that has ever wanted to dabble in 3D, character animation, making your own videos, etc.

Mike"

Of course when it's put like this, it makes everything sound quite easy.....

DeeS

 
Let me know if you decide to bite the bullet and get Messiah.
 
By the way Blender would be a good front end to do your modeling and texturing then import your model into messiah, if you decide to get it, to do your animating and scene setup in.
 
Dee
 

Hi Dee,
I went ahead and bit the bullet on Messiah. I know there's going to be a serious learning curve and I hope I can tap into your knowledge/expertise when I need some help? (I'm planning on getting Blender to do the modelling)
 
From what I've read at the KVR site, it looks like this deal will be over in a day or 2.....so you may want to get it soon.

DeeS


Hello Mesh,
 
Well for 40 bucks what the heck. I went ahead and got in on it too.
I'm downloading the manual to start looking over how things work.
Thanks for pointing this deal out. 
 
Dee
edit:
We'll I guess I won't download the manual, it's online.
That's better than nothing.

I said the same thing.....for $40 bucks to get an expensive software.....what the heck....(I'd spend $40 on food without thinking twice...LOL)
I hope they reach their goal soon (the bar is somewhere around 80%) so we can get our licenses.
 

I can't imagine them not reaching their goal with almost at 100%......even if they don't reach the 100% mark, it's still a success as far as advertising the product goes......

If they go through with this deal, just the word of mouth will advertise their product and they'll have a lot more to gain........if it doesn't go through, they'll probably have a lot more to loose as all these potential customers won't possibly go for the full price and certainly will feel let down. 

If you haven't done this yet, it might be a good idea to download the installers before their server gets an onslaught when we all get the official GO!!   http://projectmessiah.com/x6/download.html  

Hi Dee,
Would this HP Laptop be enough to handle Blender & Messiah?

These are the specs:

AMD Athlon II Dual-Core Processor for Notebook PCs P340 (2.20GHz, 1MB L2 Cache); 3GB DDR3 SDRAM memory (1 x 2GB & 1 x 1GB) (expandable to 8GB); 320GB (5400 RPM) Serial ATA hard drive; Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

15.6 Inch diagonal High-Definition HP BrightView LED Display (1366 x 768), ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4250 Graphics with up to 1405MB total graphics memory

External Ports: 5-in-1 memory card reader; 3 USB 2.0; 1 HDMI; 1 VGA (15-pin); 1 RJ -45 (LAN); 1 Headphone-out; 1 Microphone-in

DeeS

One main point is whether the video card supports openGL. 
 

There's an ATI/OpenGL-specific issue plaguing blender fro many years. It has to do with how blender implements point selection or something like that... the particular method utilizes an OGL feature not well supported by ATI. The end result is that over time the blender GUI gets slower and slower until it's just unusable. NVIDIA cards do not experience the issue... well, because NVIDIA provides proper OpenGL support, and ATI doesn't. Then again, one thing I've read from some engineer type was something to the effect of "why is blender doing selection that way? it's not the right way to do it". It may have even been an ATI engineer, comparing blender to other modelling apps that don't exhibit the same issue.
 
Anyhoo... that was the state of the state as of a year or two ago. Has the issue been fixes in blender? Don't know. Has ATI's support for OpenGL improved? Don't know.
 
You could always just dowload and run blender with your ATI whosiwhatsit, let it run for an hour or so, and if you start to notice the UI getting sluggish... and I mean reeaalllly sluggish... then there you have it...
 
Also, if you google "ATI blender" or similar you'll see a bunch of suggestions to rename atioglxx.dll, or even (gack!) to replace it with some nvidia driver, and crazy crap like that... wouldn't it be nice if computers were that simple? All that's doing is causing the driver to not load properly, effectively disabling hardware acceleration, at least on the opengl side. Again, a proper fix requires either a.) an explicit implementation change in blender, or b.) an explicit fix in the ATI OpenGL driver.

Hey Mesh,
 
Well messiah 5 is now ours.
 
But, we won't get our license until saturday or maybe before is what they say.

RobertB


Damn. I got distracted and didn't jump in. I knew that would happen.
I really liked playing with the demo.
If anybody decides it's just not your cup of tea, and the license is transferable, shoot me a PM.
In the meantime, I'll give Blender a shot.

I just noticed that the site still accepted my payment even though the page says it is over. I paid my $40.00 and I can't help but theink they will honor it since they did process my payment.
 
I figured it was worth a shot. I got a receipt in email but that's all so far.

Sure enough.  I went ahead and tried it. We'll see how it goes.