mudgel
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 12:23:16
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32 & 64 bit floating is fine for the internal processing of audio but there are no hardware devices able to play better than 24 bit.
So no matter what you do if your medium is going to be CD you need to dither down to 16 bit in your final processing and if your intended medium is DVD then you can stay at 24 bit.
You can export a file at 32 bit float but it is only any good for import into another bit of software for further processing. At some time it's going to hit hardware and will have to be either 16 or 24 bit.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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jyeager11
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 14:42:39
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mudgel
When using the Share Drivers setting what happens is that the program that has Windows' focus gets the driver so you can never hear 2 programs playing at the same time. It sounds counter intuitive but you need to uncheck that setting.
I don't understand. Are you saying it's physically impossible to have Sonar and WMP playing simultaneously? I can play youtube videos (and hear them) while WMP is playing. Firefox/IE and WMP are two very distinct programs and the focus can only be on one of them (or none) and yet I can still hear the audio overlap. Why can't I do the same with Sonar?
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jyeager11
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 14:49:42
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(On an unrelated note, how do you guys get your avatars to show up? I uploaded one to my profile yesterday and it's still not showing up.)
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chuckebaby
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 15:38:12
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jyeager11
(On an unrelated note, how do you guys get your avatars to show up? I uploaded one to my profile yesterday and it's still not showing up.)
needs to be jpeg..and i have had jpeg avatars that wont load..so id do it again and make sure it goes through instantly..theres no waiting
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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eikelbijter
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 16:04:46
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Xeon E3-1231V3, 16GB RAM, 480GB 840EVO SSD, MOTU 2480MK3, 424PCI w/ Sonar PlatinumDell XPS 18, i5, 12GB RAM, 500GB SSD+128GB SSD, Roland VS-100 w/ Sonar Platinum
Dell XPS 13, i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB 840EVO SSD, Zoom UAC-2, Sonar Platinum
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Bub 
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 16:16:04
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96kHz/24bits here. I do it because it significantly lowers latency, and my system can handle it with no problems. I've been mastering in the project lately with no problems, but the times I do master separately I'll export to 96/32bit. Another thing I did was, I stopped using Pow-R 3 and went back to Triangular dithering. The end results sound better to me when I bounce down to 44.1/16.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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StarTekh
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 16:23:02
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Jyeager11: not to worrie ..no one will dare make a pass at you !!
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jyeager11
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 16:33:16
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Bub
Another thing I did was, I stopped using Pow-R 3 and went back to Triangular dithering. The end results sound better to me when I bounce down to 44.1/16.
Triangular is my default. Are you suggesting that the majority feels Pow-R 3 is the better choice?
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chuckebaby
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 16:43:18
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so for instance if i start a project in 41/24 bit when i got to master it in export..do i need to use dither there?
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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jimmyrage
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 16:47:19
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88.2/24 Sounds betta on my system.
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bayoubill
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 17:12:27
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44.1 KHz, 24 Bitis what I use.
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twisted6s
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 17:58:42
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eikelbijter
44.1 KHz, 24 Bit baby!
R
+1...(too lazy to write it myself)
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Bub
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 18:17:02
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jyeager11
Bub
Another thing I did was, I stopped using Pow-R 3 and went back to Triangular dithering. The end results sound better to me when I bounce down to 44.1/16.
Triangular is my default. Are you suggesting that the majority feels Pow-R 3 is the better choice?
I'm not at my DAW and I want to reply to this when I'm there so I can tell you exactly what settings I have set up and why. There's some good reading here about Pow-r 3 types and what types of audio they should be used for.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Majic
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 18:37:22
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48/24.
Because it's about 20% cooler.
Enjoy the time you've got, because it's all the time you get.
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koolbass
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 18:52:38
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Very informative read. Thanx for posting that Bub.
Cheers, Lance "koolbass" Martin Sonar Platinum, Sound Forge Pro 12, ADK built audio computer: Intel 8 core i7 Haswell-E overclocked 4.2GHz; 32 Gig DDR4/2666 ram; Corsair 850W power; Windows Pro 10 x64; Geforce GTX 980 video w/4 monitors (Acer 27" touch screen/primary); 3 Seagate drives - OS, audio, samples, 2 TB external USB3 bkup drive; RME MADIface XT; Ferrofish A16 MKII ADDA; Lucid GenX 6-96 clock www.BoogieHouseMusic.com
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Jimbo 88
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 18:54:59
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48k use to be better for sync with picture. I'm not sure that is true anymore. Things stay in sync now-a-days and that was just not possible without locking things together years ago.
As far as hearing the difference...You can hear the difference if you've been working a lot in one rate and then change. Say you work/mix a song for 8-10 hours and you now hear the song (assuming the speed is correct) in the other rate, it will sound different and most will notice it ever so slightly. If you are highly tuned in you can hear it, but not casually.
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chuckebaby
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 18:55:00
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is 24 bit sucking up more processor resourses? does it give a better over-all sound..can someone tell me in short the benifits?
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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StarTekh
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 19:03:28
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chuckebaby
is 24 bit sucking up more processor resourses? (YES)..does it give a better over-all sound.(Yes)..can someone tell me in short the benifits? (Headroom)... but in the end you must convert it to 16b 44.1..
Now the tools i show'd you are for track loading and is the direction you wana go !!
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chuckebaby
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 19:11:48
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StarTekh
chuckebaby
is 24 bit sucking up more processor resourses? (YES)..does it give a better over-all sound.(Yes)..can someone tell me in short the benifits? (Headroom)... but in the end you must convert it to 16b 44.1..
Now the tools i show'd you are for track loading and is the direction you wana go !!
great answer jon..as always..thank you very much..i will take these tools back to the labratory and create some new formulas..best wishes my friend
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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petey
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 21:01:00
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Great thread! I just got my Sonar XI upgrade (by download) and my WIN-7 64bit working this year, so I was wondering about this topic! Thanks!
Petey
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A1MixMan
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 21:06:35
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Most professional studio's record at 24bit/96kHz and so do I. I'm also running everything in 64bit, Win7 and X1. And I also use the 64bit double precision engine in Sonar as well. It does make a difference no matter what anyone tells you. And with the speed of today's cpu's and the size of hard drives and the cost of ram, there is absolutely NO REASON not to run at the highest rate possible. And yes, I dither down and convert to mp3, but it's also at the highest rate possible. Ever heard of Garbage In/ Garbage Out? Same principle. A whole completed project with lots of tracks, audio and midi, with no tracks frozen, and my cpu is only at 45%. A few years ago this wasn't possible on a small budget, but today anyone can do it. Some will argue about the merits of 24bit/96kHz, but those arguements do not hold up anymore. CPU is not an issue. Hard disk space is not an issue. So why not run at 24bit/96kHz? I just don't understand the resistance to it. And it sounds fantastic to me. I will never go back. I'm just in my bedroom studio, but I try to think and act like a professional studio, because one day I will have/use/own one and I will be ready. Hell, man, this is the year 2011! Step into the future. Or at least the present. 16bit/44.1kHz is so last century.
post edited by A1MixMan - 2011/04/16 21:15:50
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A1MixMan
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 21:10:58
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chuckebaby
is 24 bit sucking up more processor resourses? does it give a better over-all sound..can someone tell me in short the benifits?
Alot higher headroom at 24bit, which means your noise floor is alot lower. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND EVERYONE to at least be 24bit/44.1kHz. You will notice this right away. You can clip really easily with 16bit, and it's ALOT harder to clip with 24bit. This really lets your music breath. It has room to stretch. It's not all cramped up. Which makes recording alot easier. This was the first thing we noticed when we switched to 24 bit. Every arguement against 24bit/96kHz is a losing one in my opinion.
post edited by A1MixMan - 2011/04/17 13:07:44
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bitflipper
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 21:38:30
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16bit/44.1kHz is so last century. You don't work for Cakewalk marketing, do you?
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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mudgel
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 22:56:56
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jyeager11
mudgel
When using the Share Drivers setting what happens is that the program that has Windows' focus gets the driver so you can never hear 2 programs playing at the same time. It sounds counter intuitive but you need to uncheck that setting.
I don't understand. Are you saying it's physically impossible to have Sonar and WMP playing simultaneously?
I can play youtube videos (and hear them) while WMP is playing. Firefox/IE and WMP are two very distinct programs and the focus can only be on one of them (or none) and yet I can still hear the audio overlap.
Why can't I do the same with Sonar?
No. What i'm saying is that once you uncheck that box and Don't share drivers with other programs you will be able to play something in Sonar while at the same time play something completely different in another program; though why you'd want to do that I don't know.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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John
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/16 23:00:35
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And 96kHz extends the dynamic range. People will argue whether "humans" can hear it, but it goes beyond that. Nature doesn't stop at 44.1 kHz, so why should I? No, there is no extension of dynamic range. There is a bandwidth increase. Two very different things.
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Loptec
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/17 03:17:43
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SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
 DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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Freddie H
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/17 04:13:37
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-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Freddie H
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/17 04:22:01
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Okay boys and girls are you all ready for the truth?
Okay I use 24 bit, 32bit, 64bit 48kHz or 96kHz and all kinds of dithering and highend AD DA converters too etc......but can we hear the difference...?
Hardly...example you can't hear any dithering go on at all , infact you can't even hear the difference between 12-14 bit or 24 bit whatever... still there are very good reason to use 24bit or 32bit floating...
We should always urge and use the best possible quality we have..but you should be aware of the facts why and what's real or not..
Watch this Video and you will learn alot of all kinds AUDIO myths floating around out there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
post edited by Freddie H - 2011/04/17 04:25:32
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Loptec
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/17 04:28:05
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best possibl
Freddie H
Okay boys and girls are you all ready for the truth?
Okay I use 24 bit, 32bit, 64bit 48kHz or 96kHz and all kinds of dithering and hoghend AD DA converters too etc......but can we hear the difference...?
You can't hear any dithering go on at all , infact you can't even hear the difference between 12-14 bit or 16 bit whatever...
Still we should always use the best possible quality we have..but you should be aware of the facts why and what's real or not..
Watch this Video and you will learn alot of all kinds AUDIO myths floating around out there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
Sorry I can’t agree with this. You hear a huge difference just by changing from 16bit 44..1kHz to 24bit 48kHz! And it’s not just what you hear in the basic recording it’s what you can do with the sound afterwards.. It’s like editing an image.. Let’s say you have a HUGE photo of a flower with a fly sitting on it. * If you have great resolution you can zoom in and draw a hat on the fly. * With low resolution all you can do is putting a blob in the fly’s head and say.. “well.. it kind of looks like a hat” In other words you get SO MUCH more control over the sound when working with higher resolution. And even if you compress the audio to mp3 or whatever after, the final product sounds SO much better if it wasn’t all blurry from the start
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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Freddie H
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Re:44000 Hz vs 48000 Hz - what rate are YOU using?
2011/04/17 04:32:41
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Loptec
best possibl
Freddie H
Okay boys and girls are you all ready for the truth?
Okay I use 24 bit, 32bit, 64bit 48kHz or 96kHz and all kinds of dithering and hoghend AD DA converters too etc......but can we hear the difference...?
You can't hear any dithering go on at all , infact you can't even hear the difference between 12-14 bit or 16 bit whatever...
Still we should always use the best possible quality we have..but you should be aware of the facts why and what's real or not..
Watch this Video and you will learn alot of all kinds AUDIO myths floating around out there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
Sorry I can’t agree with this.
You hear a huge difference just by changing from 16bit 44..1kHz to 24bit 48kHz!
And it’s not just what you hear in the basic recording it’s what you can do with the sound afterwards..
It’s like editing an image..
Let’s say you have a HUGE photo of a flower with a fly sitting on it.
* If you have great resolution you can zoom in and draw a hat on the fly.
* With low resolution all you can do is putting a blob in the fly’s head and say.. “well.. it kind of looks like a hat”
In other words you get SO MUCH more control over the sound when working with higher resolution. And even if you compress the audio to mp3 or whatever after, the final product sounds SO much better if it wasn’t all blurry from the start
My friend... I'm with you.. I'm not saing that...  I use 32bit floating 48kHz mostly myself.. Its Sunday take your time watching the VIDEO I posted.. I think you will like it. It it will take one hour to watch the Video.
post edited by Freddie H - 2011/04/17 04:35:29
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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