Helpful Reply8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements

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somo
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2015/07/15 16:12:31 (permalink)
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8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements

Hi all,
I am sorry for my English. I'm enjoy of using Sonar. For many years I have worked with Cubase and Ableton. I like testing and I tried other DAW e.g. Samplitude, Studio One etc. Sonar is very strong DAW. He got me despite with problems he has.  But I think it are a fundamental problems which should not have Sonar. I like, that Sonar team responds to the idea of the user. I believe that a lot of people about these problems already knows. And I believe that the team of Sonar these problems quickly removed.  Then the Sonar DAW will be strongest in the world! 

01.    Adjusted Screenshots do not work in all projects as well. When I create screenshots in one project and open another project, everything is gone and I must everything set up again.
02.    If I change position VU meter (Horizontal/Vertical) or set Narrow (Widen) Strips etc. in one project and then reopen this project, I must everything set up again. Inspector Window I must always docked too. Sonar should remember these basic facts!
03.    Changing the Volume Level - when I 2x click into a cell with a numerical value of Volume, I can’t enter a number Value on the numeric keypad.
04.    Sonar not remember zooming level of midi notes too - I open the project and must midi notes to zoom again.
05.    History in Sonar (Undo/Redo) not working well. Sonar is not saved everything. E.g. Volume of fader position.
06.    When I create a Track Template, Sonar not store all the information. E.g. I save a Track Template with NI Battery + MIDI Notes + Mapping. But Mapping is gone! I must set up the NI Battery (Mapping) again.
07.    Whenever I open a new project, I must to reactivate Full screen (Full Screen does not hold all the time).
08.    When I click on a  "*.mid"  file in Browser, Sonar does not play MIDI from the file trough VST Instrument.
---------------------------------------
09.    Please add the “Duplicate loop / loops / selection” Function. It is tedious to always use "Ctrl + Drag and Drop".
10.    Please add the Zooming with mousewheel, as E.g. Samplitude, Reaper or Sony Acid. It's incredibly effective!
11.    Please correct the loop points in the Ruler - When I place the Play cursor to the left or right side of the loop selection (loop points), I must always click on the piece next. Play cursor on the sides collides with loop points. This is awkward.
12.    When I add a track via hotkey, always is added to the end of the other. Correctly should create at a track that I selected.
13.    When I select multiple tracks, I do not move them all at once - it is not working. I must to drag and drop each separately. Related problem: all strips in the Console do not drag and drop(move)!
14.    CPU and Disk Performance Meter shows real only CPU Performance. Other parameters show nothing - HDD is always 100% etc. (= is it only bitmap?).
15.    Please make graphic of Sonar more slim - Sonar has too strong dividing lines, too many panels and so on ... today is a modern slim graphics. Please skins?
16. When I copy a sample using CTRL + mouse (+ drag and drop), so Sonar create next copy of the sample. When the project has a lot of copies of the Sample, the disc (HDD) has a higher performance and sound problems arise. Better to create links to the main sample.
post edited by somo - 2015/07/18 10:03:36
#1
scook
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/15 19:20:57 (permalink)
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Please avoid generating lists of unrelated ideas in the feature request area. It is difficult for others to comment about, update and vote on.
 
thanks
sc
#2
azslow3
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 03:39:30 (permalink)
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I can not confirm (2) and (8), works fine for me.
 
(5)(10)(11)(15) are your questionable personal opinion and definitive not "fundamental problems"

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#3
Notecrusher
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 06:06:33 (permalink)
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This is a new poster on the forum. Welcome somo! It's perfectly understandable you didn't want to make 15 posts from the get-go! People can respond and then some of the ideas that get the most traction can be posted as separate threads for voting.
 
03.    Changing the Volume Level - when I 2x click into a cell with a numerical value of Volume, I can’t enter a number Value on the numeric keypad.
Dbl-click sets to zero by convention in Sonar but I'd like to see single-click allow for typing values in volume, panning, etc. 
 
04.    Sonar not remember zooming level of midi notes too - I open the project and must midi notes to zoom again.
+1 to this and all other examples of state that isn't saved when a project is closed. 
 
05.    History in Sonar (Undo/Redo) not working well. Sonar is not saved everything. E.g. Volume of fader position.
Yeah I've noticed Undo is rather arbitrary about what it considers an undoable action. 
 
10.    Please add the Zooming with mousewheel, as E.g. Samplitude, Reaper or Sony Acid. It's incredibly effective!
Mouse wheel WAD -- moves tracks up and down. You can zoom w/ ALT+mouse wheel and now click + dragging in the ruler which is the best!
 
15.    Please make graphic of Sonar more slim - Sonar has too strong dividing lines, too many panels and so on ... today is a modern slim graphics. Please skins?
This is kinda 3 requests in one, but I have to say this is by far the biggest issue of any you have raised. I have always hated the vertical rules in Sonar and despite changes I still struggle to tell where I am placing MIDI notes at almost any zoom level. Aim Assist? What a joke! Thing gets in the way more than it helps. I really wish Cakewalk would reimagine this part of the UI.
#4
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 10:56:55 (permalink)
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scook
Please avoid generating lists of unrelated ideas in the feature request area. It is difficult for others to comment about, update and vote on.
 
thanks
sc


sorry, I'm new here, thanks for the info....
post edited by somo - 2015/07/16 11:08:37
#5
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 11:37:47 (permalink)
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azslow3
I can not confirm (2) and (8), works fine for me.
 
(5)(10)(11)(15) are your questionable personal opinion and definitive not "fundamental problems"



You're right, I corrected the post title. Thank you for the note.


post edited by somo - 2015/07/16 13:51:08
#6
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 11:42:34 (permalink)
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Notecrusher
This is a new poster on the forum. Welcome somo! It's perfectly understandable you didn't want to make 15 posts from the get-go! People can respond and then some of the ideas that get the most traction can be posted as separate threads for voting.
 
03.    Changing the Volume Level - when I 2x click into a cell with a numerical value of Volume, I can’t enter a number Value on the numeric keypad.
Dbl-click sets to zero by convention in Sonar but I'd like to see single-click allow for typing values in volume, panning, etc. 
 
04.    Sonar not remember zooming level of midi notes too - I open the project and must midi notes to zoom again.
+1 to this and all other examples of state that isn't saved when a project is closed. 
 
05.    History in Sonar (Undo/Redo) not working well. Sonar is not saved everything. E.g. Volume of fader position.
Yeah I've noticed Undo is rather arbitrary about what it considers an undoable action. 
 
10.    Please add the Zooming with mousewheel, as E.g. Samplitude, Reaper or Sony Acid. It's incredibly effective!
Mouse wheel WAD -- moves tracks up and down. You can zoom w/ ALT+mouse wheel and now click + dragging in the ruler which is the best!
 
15.    Please make graphic of Sonar more slim - Sonar has too strong dividing lines, too many panels and so on ... today is a modern slim graphics. Please skins?
This is kinda 3 requests in one, but I have to say this is by far the biggest issue of any you have raised. I have always hated the vertical rules in Sonar and despite changes I still struggle to tell where I am placing MIDI notes at almost any zoom level. Aim Assist? What a joke! Thing gets in the way more than it helps. I really wish Cakewalk would reimagine this part of the UI.


 
 
Thank you for the good post!
10 - I know, but this function is Sonar clumsy. I must with precision aim and functions also affects other Tracks. In Reaper or Samplitude is it more effective. Working with this function is much faster. I recommend!
#7
papacucku
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 12:06:20 (permalink)
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Not sure I follow No 3. on the volume level. That is exactly what I do, I double click on the volume and type it in.  Are you saying you want to do that on one of the volume sliders? Cuz if you double click on the volume of a track , at least when its vertical like in console view you can edit the volume with the keyboard.

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#8
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 13:23:59 (permalink)
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papacucku
Not sure I follow No 3. on the volume level. That is exactly what I do, I double click on the volume and type it in.  Are you saying you want to do that on one of the volume sliders? Cuz if you double click on the volume of a track , at least when its vertical like in console view you can edit the volume with the keyboard. 



Thank you, you're right! I do not know. But it does not work on audio tracks!
post edited by somo - 2015/07/16 13:50:54
#9
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 13:35:56 (permalink)
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15 - e.g.
1) The panel no. 1 remove and integrate it into the main menu
2) time display no. 2 remove and keep it in the control bar
3) dividing line no. 3 and 4 are too thick (more slim nicer)
 

 
 
 
post edited by somo - 2015/07/16 13:49:31
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Notecrusher
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 13:51:50 (permalink)
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papacucku
Not sure I follow No 3. on the volume level. That is exactly what I do, I double click on the volume and type it in.  Are you saying you want to do that on one of the volume sliders? Cuz if you double click on the volume of a track , at least when its vertical like in console view you can edit the volume with the keyboard.




Not in the console in TV.


#11
stickman393
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 14:28:55 (permalink)
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somo
15 - e.g.
1) The panel no. 1 remove and integrate it into the main menu
2) time display no. 2 remove and keep it in the control bar
3) dividing line no. 3 and 4 are too thick (more slim nicer)
 

 
 
 




re: 1) "That ship has sailed". The X-series of SONAR simplified the main menu and moved related functions out of the menu and into the view window's "control strip". They aren't going to go backwards to SONAR 8 style.
 
That said, I didn't like that change either. But it is what it is.
 
re: 2) You know you can change units in each display? You can have bar:beat in one and minute:secs in the other. It's pretty useful.
 
re: 3) I think the reason the bar is thick is because it is actually two separator bars. The video strip or the navigator pane appears between the two bars, if you make them visible.
#12
scook
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 14:34:23 (permalink)
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2. Set the track view time display to "None"
#13
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 16:06:19 (permalink)
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stickman393
 
re: 1) "That ship has sailed". The X-series of SONAR simplified the main menu and moved related functions out of the menu and into the view window's "control strip". They aren't going to go backwards to SONAR 8 style.
 
That said, I didn't like that change either. But it is what it is.
 
re: 2) May be it also in the Control Bar.
 
re: 3) I think the reason the bar is thick is because it is actually two separator bars. The video strip or the navigator pane appears between the two bars, if you make them visible.




 
1 - I am convinced that it is better
2 - If I delete the time display with the "none", there may not be an empty space - ineffective waste of space (usable for slim graphics)
3 - separators need not be so thick - users know that there is a video strip
 
I wish modern graphics that not tired eyes.
post edited by somo - 2015/07/16 16:25:32
#14
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 16:15:06 (permalink)
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scook
2. Set the track view time display to "None"



Thank you, but it does not solve the problem with space. When I set "None", instead of the Time Display remains a big empty space. For what so much space? The devices are nowadays shrinking faster (laptops, tablets ...). Sonar must respond and exploid the unused space to the maximum.
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Kev999
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 16:17:03 (permalink)
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stickman393
somo
2) time display no. 2 remove and keep it in the control bar

re: 2) You know you can change units in each display? You can have bar:beat in one and minute:secs in the other. It's

 
Indeed. I always keep one of them set to musical time and the other to real time. Also, the two displays don't necessarily appear so close together as they are on the above screenshot. The toolbar is moveable.

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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 16:17:36 (permalink)
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Notecrusher
This is a new poster on the forum. Welcome somo! It's perfectly understandable you didn't want to make 15 posts from the get-go! People can respond and then some of the ideas that get the most traction can be posted as separate threads for voting.


Agreed... That's why this probably belongs in Sonar forums.

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#17
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 16:27:06 (permalink)
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Kev999
stickman393
somo
2) time display no. 2 remove and keep it in the control bar

re: 2) You know you can change units in each display? You can have bar:beat in one and minute:secs in the other. It's

 
Indeed. I always keep one of them set to musical time and the other to real time. Also, the two displays don't necessarily appear so close together as they are on the above screenshot. The toolbar is moveable.




Agreed. However Sonar can do it an other time at the Control Bar as the next module. The user can turn on or off and move the module.
post edited by somo - 2015/07/16 16:35:54
#18
scook
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 16:28:51 (permalink)
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This is feature request and is being refined. It just got off to a shaky start. This has nothing to do with how to use SONAR. From what I can see, the request is a rewrite of the Skylight interface with an emphasis on tiny displays. Moving some elements around and eliminating white space where possible.
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Spencer
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/16 17:29:39 (permalink)
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sonar has undo on a per fader basis, just right click on it. I like it, makes the undo list far less cluttered.
 
it is indeed fairly ghetto that you can lose sight of a cursor behind another cursor in the timeline.
 
8) works fine, use Synth Preview Output in the browser
post edited by Spencer - 2015/07/16 17:45:15
#20
williamcopper
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/17 18:16:46 (permalink)
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Good post.   To those who say make 15 posts .. then you get criticized for flooding the forums.   can't win.    But I agree and have been bothered by about 1/3 of those ..
 
#21
mudgel
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/18 06:39:22 (permalink)
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Some great ideas here. Ah! How do I vote for one and not another.

Great conversations too but only a few suggestions being discussed. Seeing as this is an actual request forum it makes it hard to support a single idea that's part of multiple requests. If this is where Cakewalk come to see what we want, will they really spend much or any time at this thread. Just asking the obvious question.

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#22
somo
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/18 09:44:01 (permalink)
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Spencer
sonar has undo on a per fader basis, just right click on it. I like it, makes the undo list far less cluttered.
 
it is indeed fairly ghetto that you can lose sight of a cursor behind another cursor in the timeline.
 
8) works fine, use Synth Preview Output in the browser




The Undo / Redo: I understand, but the problem is something else. Sonar does not record all the steps, E.g. volume change.
 
8) thank you ,  I'll try it...
#23
RD9
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Re: 15 fundamental problems in Sonar to improve 2015/07/19 19:52:42 (permalink)
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scook
This is feature request and is being refined. It just got off to a shaky start. This has nothing to do with how to use SONAR. From what I can see, the request is a rewrite of the Skylight interface with an emphasis on tiny displays. Moving some elements around and eliminating white space where possible.



First: Somo, thanks for a good and thoughtful post. I am working my way through your suggestions and already have learned a lot of new things about Sonar from the responses. 
 
Second:  Scook is right about the flavour of your post.  I was wondering what screen size you have since this may colour your opinion.  Would it be possible for you to describe your system in the footer of your post?  e.g. are you using a laptop? (I will be updating my own footer to include monitor information.)
 
Thanks,
R
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icontakt
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Re: 8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements 2015/07/19 21:21:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Doktor Avalanche 2015/07/19 22:19:02
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I respectfully disagree that this is a good post. Most people follow the rule and create only one request per thread. Creating one thread a day for 15 consecutive days is absolutely fine. Also, many of the goals the OP wants to achieve here are already possible in Sonar. I hope this thread won't grab CW's attention too much. Below are my replies to each item:
 
 
 
somo
01.    Adjusted Screenshots do not work in all projects as well. When I create screenshots in one project and open another project, everything is gone and I must everything set up again.

 
Create your own project template and use it every time you start a new project. That's what project templates are for.
 
 
somo
02.    If I change position VU meter (Horizontal/Vertical) or set Narrow (Widen) Strips etc. in one project and then reopen this project, I must everything set up again. Inspector Window I must always docked too. Sonar should remember these basic facts!

 
Same as above.
 
 
somo
03.    Changing the Volume Level - when I 2x click into a cell with a numerical value of Volume, I can’t enter a number Value on the numeric keypad.

 
Works fine here, on both audio and MIDI tracks.
 
 
somo
04.    Sonar not remember zooming level of midi notes too - I open the project and must midi notes to zoom again.

 
This is probably a bug, not feature request.
 
 
somo
05.    History in Sonar (Undo/Redo) not working well. Sonar is not saved everything. E.g. Volume of fader position.

 
The fader position can be restore by double-clicking on it and select "Revert to xxx." Or save a Mix Scene before moving it. I don't want fader positions to be included in undo histories. 
 
 
somo
06.    When I create a Track Template, Sonar not store all the information. E.g. I save a Track Template with NI Battery + MIDI Notes + Mapping. But Mapping is gone! I must set up the NI Battery (Mapping) again.

 
You can probably just load the mapping in Battery. If it can't even save a mapping, it's a bad program, I must say.
 
 
somo
07.    Whenever I open a new project, I must to reactivate Full screen (Full Screen does not hold all the time).

 
Again, create your own project template and use it every time you start a new project.
 
 
somo
08.    When I click on a  "*.mid"  file in Browser, Sonar does not play MIDI from the file trough VST Instrument.

 
Works fine here.
 
 
somo
09.    Please add the “Duplicate loop / loops / selection” Function. It is tedious to always use "Ctrl + Drag and Drop".

 
Turn the clip into a Groove Clip (by selecting it and hitting Ctrl+L) and just drag the right edge of it to the right.
 
 
somo
10.    Please add the Zooming with mousewheel, as E.g. Samplitude, Reaper or Sony Acid. It's incredibly effective!

 
Already exists. Check the Mouse Wheel Zoom Options in the Track view's Options menu.
 
 
somo
11.    Please correct the loop points in the Ruler - When I place the Play cursor to the left or right side of the loop selection (loop points), I must always click on the piece next. Play cursor on the sides collides with loop points. This is awkward.

 
Not sure what this means. Maybe placing the play cursor to the right side of the loop section and hitting the W key once will help?
 
 
somo
12.    When I add a track via hotkey, always is added to the end of the other. Correctly should create at a track that I selected.

 
I get the same result even without using a hotkey. If you really want a new track to be created just below the one you selected, I suggest you create a new thread just for that. You might get some votes.
 
 
somo
13.    When I select multiple tracks, I do not move them all at once - it is not working. I must to drag and drop each separately. Related problem: all strips in the Console do not drag and drop(move)!

 
I saw someone request this already, and I voted for it. Can't find the thread.
 
 
somo
14.    CPU and Disk Performance Meter shows real only CPU Performance. Other parameters show nothing - HDD is always 100% etc. (= is it only bitmap?).

 
I don't find the module very helpful. So I guess I agree with you.
 
 
somo
15.    Please make graphic of Sonar more slim - Sonar has too strong dividing lines, too many panels and so on ... today is a modern slim graphics. Please skins?

 
I agree, to some extent.
 
 
somo
16. When I copy a sample using CTRL + mouse (+ drag and drop), so Sonar create next copy of the sample. When the project has a lot of copies of the Sample, the disc (HDD) has a higher performance and sound problems arise. Better to create links to the main sample.

 
Edit -> Preferences -> Customization -> Editing -> Copy Entire Clips as Linked Clips. 

Tak T.
 
Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1
Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)
Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRO
DAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
#25
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: 8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements 2015/07/19 22:14:34 (permalink)
0
∆ This...

Suggest this gets moved into Sonar forums.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
#26
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: 8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements 2015/07/19 22:14:40 (permalink)
0
Dupe.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/07/19 22:22:12

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
#27
somo
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Re: 8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements 2015/07/20 11:22:42 (permalink)
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Doktor Avalanche
Dupe.



Kokote.
#28
somo
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Re: 8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements 2015/07/20 11:28:49 (permalink)
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icontakt
I respectfully disagree that this is a good post. Most people follow the rule and create only one request per thread. Creating one thread a day for 15 consecutive days is absolutely fine. Also, many of the goals the OP wants to achieve here are already possible in Sonar. I hope this thread won't grab CW's attention too much. Below are my replies to each item.



I know how they work templates. But why should I adapt? Sonar should work well without the use of templates. With this approach, Sonar will never be improved! For other useful answers thank you.
#29
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: 8 fundamental problems in Sonar and other improvements 2015/07/20 12:14:10 (permalink)
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somo
I know how they work templates. But why should I adapt? Sonar should work well without the use of templates. With this approach, Sonar will never be improved! For other useful answers thank you.


? What have you got against using templates
That allows you to do what you need right?

If you are stating there are bugs then you are in the wrong forum, you should create a new thread for each issue...If you seriously want Sonar to be improved you should have seperare thread for each of these items or vote on existing threads.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/07/20 12:23:13

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
#30
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