FastBikerBoy
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/18 12:58:23
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chilldanny
Take Lanes a work in progress - fair enough.
But to not have any option to use Layers as many would prefer, is just, well, rude.
Automation Lanes on the other hand, superb and welcome addition.
I guess 1 out of 2 aint bad ;)
Yep I can relate to that. I stated here when the clamour was for automation lanes that I doubt I'd prefer them over the edit filter system and I was right (don't tell the wife though  ). At least I do have the option to carry on with the edit filter plus the luxury of using the lanes when I need them for multi envelope editing.
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chilldanny
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/18 13:46:48
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I guess that's the point, I would imagine that you as a user would be pretty miffed if they'd dropped the Edit Filter. But hey, can't please everyone all the time eh? (something I relay to the wife quite often  )
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timidi
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/18 13:59:09
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I use these here thangs called "tracks" instead. Me too.
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soulicious
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/19 15:37:55
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Thanks to everyone for acknowledging the issues with take lanes. I don't feel so "alone" in my struggles anymore! Lol!
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cornieleous
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/19 22:02:15
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8.5.3, for the win!!! (Again). I have to wonder why these new Lanes were rolled out broken after two years of development. Layers worked very well conceptually and just needed to be debugged a bit, not replaced with something that wasn't thought through or finished. Even an improved edit filter may have been a better route.
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Anderton
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/19 23:07:07
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I have a hunch that Lanes will be like FX Chains - a structural change that's being implemented now, but will be improved over time. I've been using them, but am not quite sure I've figured out how best to exploit them yet.
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stevec
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 00:43:53
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I have a hunch that Lanes will be like FX Chains - a structural change that's being implemented now, but will be improved over time. We can certainly hope. I, for one, still pefer Lanes over Layers, but there's not much I disagree with in the OP. As counter-intuituve as that may seem.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 02:33:57
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+1 Steve. I think there's far more to come yet and let's face it lanes are just layers, repositioned with better controls. I can't really see how they were going to get those better controls given the space limitations of the track header.
If a "Break out lanes and minimise track" button was there and they could be re-sized to greater extremes the change would all be positive as far as I can see. At the moment they are a little more clumsy but the room to improve is quite literally, greater than layers ever was.
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guitartrek
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 07:34:42
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FastBikerBoy
+1 Steve. I think there's far more to come yet and let's face it lanes are just layers, repositioned with better controls. I can't really see how they were going to get those better controls given the space limitations of the track header.
If a "Break out lanes and minimise track" button was there and they could be re-sized to greater extremes the change would all be positive as far as I can see. At the moment they are a little more clumsy but the room to improve is quite literally, greater than layers ever was.
Exactly. I think they decided that in order to bring layers to the next level they had to take a different approach. That meant re-writing a lot of code. They were able to get to a certain level with Lanes, and then had to release X2. I'm sure they will come out with a "rebuild" function and other functions that people liked in Layers..
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stevec
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 07:46:50
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Another +1. I'd imagine that Layers simply didn't have the potential of this new take on things (pun intended), and being part of the X series UI has built-in room to grow.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 07:51:02
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stevec
Another +1. I'd imagine that Layers simply didn't have the potential of this new take on things (pun intended), and being part of the X series UI has built-in room to grow.
Didn't you make the point that everyone is +1 ing?...... that means you're + 1 ing yourself. There might be a tactic there that'll help Bapu with his post count. Perhaps you should licence the idea to him.
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fooman
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 09:14:16
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Cake needs to do an in-depth tutorial video with lanes. I love layers. I work with them quickly. It's part of the reason I'm sticking with X1. Don't release a 'work in progress' (if that's true at all).
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 09:39:36
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fooman
Cake needs to do an in-depth tutorial video with lanes. I love layers. I work with them quickly. It's part of the reason I'm sticking with X1. Don't release a 'work in progress' (if that's true at all).
Apart from their position in relation to the main track, improved control buttons, diminshed height adjustment, missing rebuild layers function but ability to re-order layers - their in use methodology hasn't changed that much. They are layers by a different name with the differences noted earlier. What part are you finding different?
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listen
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 09:46:06
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I'm convinced we as people DON'T like CHANGE -
Lanes are different and there are some tweaks needed and for me it is less confusing than layers; yet, it could benefit from many of the posted suggestions...
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 09:51:18
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Anyone notice a trend?
It seems like the folks who state that they were confused by Layers seem to prefer having less versatility and functionality in Take Lanes.
It all makes sense.
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listen
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 09:55:42
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I think we will see CW implement the best of the two Layers/Lane world...
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 09:57:00
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Beepster
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 10:09:16
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Anyone notice a trend?
It seems like the folks who state that they were confused by Layers seem to prefer having less versatility and functionality in Take Lanes.
It all makes sense. 
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 10:25:26
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mike_mccue
Anyone notice a trend?
It seems like the folks who state that they were confused by Layers seem to prefer having less versatility and functionality in Take Lanes.
It all makes sense.
Personally, I wasn't confused by layers (apart from the rebuild function). You'll find several videos on my YouTube page explaining how to use and comp with them but I do prefer take lanes. I'm intrigued by this "less versatility and functionality" though, unless I'm missing something they have lost........... - Ability to fully resize/shrink them
- The rebuild function
- Er...... you'll have to help me out here......
They have gained - Improved Solo mute buttons
- Ability to display different data types in each take ie. clips in one transients in another or inline PRV and clips
- Ability to drag re-order
- Ability to rename a take
- Ability to include notes about a take.
- Ability to record into a chosen lane
While I completely agree that there is room for improvement in exactly the same way there was room for improvement with layers I don't see the loss of function or versatility. They've gained more than they've lost. Perhaps I could refer you to one of the X2 tuition videos to help you get up to speed with the workflow changes?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 10:42:55
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Hi Carl,
Thanks for providing some proof to support my thesis.
best regards,
mike
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Beepster
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 10:47:25
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 10:52:29
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This is definitely a lot more amusing than watching Graham Norton. Hell, we're nearly up to Julian Clary level
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Beepster
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:03:03
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I seem to be having a hard time finding Mr. Mccue's Cakewalk approved tutorials in the Cake store.
Funny that.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:06:08
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mike_mccue
Hi Carl,
Thanks for providing some proof to support my thesis.
best regards,
mike
No worries I'm always happy to help although quite how increased functions equals less functionality is a little beyond me, but then again I'm not quite as clever as you. What is it you can't do in lanes that you can in layers? Perhaps I can help you even more.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:16:20
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I don't want to know what he does in lanes, or alleys, or back streets
Actually don't want to know what anyone does in lanes, or alleys, or back streets
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fooman
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:32:33
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FastBikerBoy
fooman
Cake needs to do an in-depth tutorial video with lanes. I love layers. I work with them quickly. It's part of the reason I'm sticking with X1. Don't release a 'work in progress' (if that's true at all).
Apart from their position in relation to the main track, improved control buttons, diminshed height adjustment, missing rebuild layers function but ability to re-order layers - their in use methodology hasn't changed that much. They are layers by a different name with the differences noted earlier.
What part are you finding different?
I will preface this by stating that I have not used the lanes a whole lot. Just used X2 enough to see bugs that forced me back to X1. However, from my experience... I HATE the fact that the track's waveform looks like a jumbled mess when you fold it and there are 3+ takes used to make up the track. When you start slicing and dicing, the folded track becomes a mess. Some people may not care, but I use visual cues when editing instruments. Also, the T0 issue people were having is not good. Extra clicks to delete un-used lanes. I also find editing slower. I slip edit a lot with tons of crossfades. Harder to do with lanes IME.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:43:27
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fooman
FastBikerBoy
fooman
Cake needs to do an in-depth tutorial video with lanes. I love layers. I work with them quickly. It's part of the reason I'm sticking with X1. Don't release a 'work in progress' (if that's true at all).
Apart from their position in relation to the main track, improved control buttons, diminshed height adjustment, missing rebuild layers function but ability to re-order layers - their in use methodology hasn't changed that much. They are layers by a different name with the differences noted earlier.
What part are you finding different?
I will preface this by stating that I have not used the lanes a whole lot. Just used X2 enough to see bugs that forced me back to X1. However, from my experience...
I HATE the fact that the track's waveform looks like a jumbled mess when you fold it and there are 3+ takes used to make up the track. When you start slicing and dicing, the folded track becomes a mess. Some people may not care, but I use visual cues when editing instruments.
Yes that could definitely be tidier but was X1 much different? IIRC that just showed one layer as well in a collapsed state didn't it? Also, the T0 issue people were having is not good. Extra clicks to delete un-used lanes.
Yep that's a bug, seems to affect it only when take lanes are closed or at least I haven't seen any while recording with lanes open .
I also find editing slower. I slip edit a lot with tons of crossfades. Harder to do with lanes IME.
I don't know about crossfading being harder, it's impossible at the minute as the crossfade tool is broken.  Bugs aside there isn't much difference in method though and several improvements. I like being able to make notes in the lane, the mute & solo buttons are much easier to hit and I personally prefer the click drag to rearrange rather than the "Auto jumble" function. A "rebuild function" that actually works in a logical, user configurable way would definitely be a welcome addition though. I think once the wrinkles are ironed out they will be a big improvement - though time will tell I guess.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:44:25
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The only thing I don't like about them is the inability to size them to whatever height I want
Other than that they're fine
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Beepster
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:47:16
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Yeah... again I'll say I'd really like the collapsed tracks to be more sensible. We should be able to bring the takes we want to the top and view/edit them easily. As far as traditional cross fades I'm not even sure how that would even be done with lanes as they are but in my case it doesn't matter because like I said, overlapping takes on the same track do something wacky to the audio. Is anyone else hearing that? I don't remember it being like that with X1.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:A Rant About Take Lanes
2012/11/20 11:48:21
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☄ Helpful
For me, the most important factor is the ' why' I use Lanes or Layers, as opposed to using separate tracks. And sadly, for the way I work, the single most important feature for me is no longer in Lanes, but I used it a lot in Layers, and that is the Rebuild function. Let me explain why. Lets assume I'm recording a 32 bar guitar solo. Unless it's a passage I know off by heart, there's a good chance that it's not going to get laid down successfully in one take. Therefore I'm going to have to do some comping at some stage. My approach may be dissimilar to how some of you might accomplish this. I know some like to record the whole solo a number of times and then use comping to piece together the best parts, and I know some like to punch record to correct the parts they might have misplayed. My modus operandi is slightly different. If I know I'm going to struggle to play the whole passage, I'll break it up into comfortable phrases and record them separately. Comping then allows me to trim and edit each clip as I assemble the jigsaw that is the complete solo. The most convenient method of doing this for me is to use Lanes or Layers (especially as in most of my templates, I have my tracks already set up with pre-assigned Pro Channel and VST effects, as well as panning, levels etc). In the interest of keeping the project 'tidy' and easier to manage, the Rebuild feature is ideal for my purposes. As I delete bits and pieces off the individual clips I've recorded, rebuilding the track does this for me. Here's an example of how the same solo looks in X2 Lanes and X1 Layers after comping. In X2 Lanes:  Even when I now trim off the unwanted muted parts I'm still stuck with the same amount of Lanes:  Contrast this with the same project in X1. Even before I trim off the muted parts, Rebuild gives me a much tidier view of the track:  And once I do trim them off, I end up with this:  So, with all the undoubtable benefits of Lanes over Layers, a Rebuild Lanes feature would make it perfect for me.
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