ston
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A question about making electric guitars
I've been watching a few 'factory tours' videos on youtube recently (PRS, Gibson and the like).
I know very little about woodworking and far less about making guitars.
My question is this: why do they take the piece of wood which is to form the body of the (electric) guitar, chop it in half then glue it back together again to make the body, rather than not chopping it in half in the first place?
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Randy P
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/26 07:59:05
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A piece of wood that has been cut and glued is stronger and much less resistant to warping.
Also, on some guitar body styles it makes the routing for electronics much easier when the body is in 2 pieces. The routing gets done after splitting, then is glued together.
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Mesh
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/26 09:09:24
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/01/26 19:41:05
Michael (Spacey) would've been all over this.......miss him.
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ston
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/26 10:59:18
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Randy P
A piece of wood that has been cut and glued is stronger and much less resistant to warping.
Also, on some guitar body styles it makes the routing for electronics much easier when the body is in 2 pieces. The routing gets done after splitting, then is glued together.
Ta :-) I suppose it also allows for one half to be flipped, thereby creating the 'butterfly ink blot' type of pattern with the wood's grain.
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michaelhanson
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/26 11:31:14
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ston
Randy P
A piece of wood that has been cut and glued is stronger and much less resistant to warping.
Also, on some guitar body styles it makes the routing for electronics much easier when the body is in 2 pieces. The routing gets done after splitting, then is glued together.
Ta :-) I suppose it also allows for one half to be flipped, thereby creating the 'butterfly ink blot' type of pattern with the wood's grain.
Randy nailed it. This process is common on table tops, cutting boards, etc...keeps its flatness. Ston, this is called "Bookmatched" on the maple pattern.
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drewfx1
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/26 13:57:54
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Though bookmatching is attractive, the real reason is it saves money.
It is not glued back where it is cut. What happens is a thick piece of wood is cut in half and the resulting two thinner halves are glued together so that you end up with a piece that's twice as wide but half as thick.
Cheap guitars with solid finishes (or thin veneers on top and sometimes bottom) often will have more than two pieces.
Single piece bodies and non-bookmatched tops are available, but they are generally more expensive.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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tlw
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/26 16:03:14
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The size and "consistency" of trees has a lot to do with it.
Once the timber's been sawn at the timber yard it's much easier to find quarter-sawn (cut at right angles to the grain) knot and void-free sections with a good consistent grain density 4 inches thick and 8 inches wide than 2 inches thick and 14 inches wide. So you find, for example, a good-looking 4x7 block and after cutting (or splitting) and glueing the thin edges together it becomes a 2x14 body blank ready for shaping. It's even harder to find timber suitable for one piece tops on acoustic guitars, with their typically wider body.
I've heard Fender (and many far-east mass produces) might sometimes use more than just two pieces - I've seen internet claims that a Fender body "spread" might contain up to five different sections. Don't know if it's true or just "internet experts", but if it is it kind of undermines the "one piece bodies sound best" argument. Once the wood's glued it's all a single resonant plank in any case, the glue's far stronger than the wood and it's rigid so it passes vibrations no problem. Too lively body resonance is a bad thing in electric guitars in any case, as anyone who's tried to play an ES330 or similar through a cranked amp will testify.
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ston
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/27 06:03:19
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Interesting stuff, ta. Also helps to explain why my one-solid-piece of mahogany chopping board which a friend made for me many years ago has a tendency to warp and try to split (I have to keep rotating it and keep it well oiled).
It is a damn fine board though, must have had it for over 20 years already.
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Karyn
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/27 09:28:01
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I have a granite chopping board, it doesn't warp at all but I wouldn't want to use it as a blank to make a guitar...
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57Gregy
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/27 10:22:21
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/01/27 10:29:27
Karyn
I have a granite chopping board, it doesn't warp at all but I wouldn't want to use it as a blank to make a guitar...
Why not? It would rock!
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ston
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/27 10:43:23
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Les Paul's first electric 'guitar' was apparently one wire and it used a steel railway sleeper as the body.
He said it was the most beautiful, pure tone he'd ever heard.
...but was equally practical as the granite guitar ;-)
Also, as an ex-chef, isn't a granite chopping board rather hard? Still, as long as it's not glass...don't get me started there..!
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Karyn
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 06:51:16
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ston as an ex-chef, isn't a granite chopping board rather hard? Still, as long as it's not glass...don't get me started there..!
I'm not an ex-chef, so I'm not as qualified as you, but yes it is very hard. Hence I'm not going to even try turning it into a guitar body...
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jbow
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 10:36:22
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Lots of solid body guitars are more than two pieces of wood. I don't it matters as long as it sounds good and looks good. I'll buy a cheap guitar online but never a nice one. I have to play them all, unplugged. See how they feel and sound unplugged. If it does not sound good unplugged it isn't going to sound as good as it could plugged in, unless of course you are using so much distortion or other FX that you can't hear the tone of the guitar.
I don't think I've ever actually seen a one piece guitar. I've seen one piece necks but they have to be cut just right so that they don't warp.
The tone is why Gibson uses a light nitrocellulose finish. A heavy paint job sucks some of the tone away. The Gibson Historic RIs also have a longer neck tenon that actually enters the top of the pickup cavity. This also lends to a better tone. Lots of things go to tone. Like the big flat bridge on a Telecaster and the neck through strings. Put a Stratocaster bridge on a Telecaster and it will sound different. Lots of stuff going on. I imagine the most important wood is the wood where the pickups are and the neck connects to the body and then the neck itself... and the fret board. I prefer maple on a Strat (I like the look) and I like ebony on a mahogany body and neck guitar (the tone). Rosewood is fine but ebony will last a LONG time.
I have some guitars where you can see the different wood pieces. With a thin coat of paint you usually can, especially from the back. Most Fenders though, you can't see through the paint. I think they are routinely 4 to 5 pieces of wood, maybe less in CS guitars... I'm guessing though.
None of it matters if the guitar sounds good, feels good, and looks good and most important you like it! If you like it you will play it more and play it better.
J
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Beepster
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 13:54:11
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Dammit, Spacey. Ya stubborn bastard... get back here!!!
We needz ya!
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drewfx1
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 14:08:14
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jbow
The tone is why Gibson uses a light nitrocellulose finish. A heavy paint job sucks some of the tone away. This is complete nonsense. On an electric guitar, what matters is the relationship between the PU's and the strings. Finish simply has no affect on this regardless of common mythology that any little detail must matter. The desire for nitrocellulose is a combination of aesthetics, perhaps the feel of it, and of course vintage mystique. Finish plays a role with acoustic instruments as it can meaningfully affect the key factors of strength vs. elasticity of, say, an acoustic guitar top. There is a common belief among some that the same rules apply acoustic and solid body instruments, but it's wrong. On an acoustic instrument the string energy is translated into acoustic sound by the top (and to a lessor extent the back and sides) vibrating up and down as a diaphragm. The key factors are for the wood to move as easily as possible (elasticity) without breaking. On acoustic instruments, one wants to use a finish that enhances rather than impedes these factors. But nothing like this happens with a solid body instrument - the physics of a thin piece of wood vibrating up and down are completely different than vibrations traveling through a solid piece of wood and arriving at a boundary. Which is exactly why solid bodies make for such terrible "acoustic" instruments.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 16:35:29
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Out of respect for two old friends and at the risk of having my words changed I will post my views.
First, if the OP did indeed see a luthier cut a one-piece body blank in half and then glue it back together I'm at a loss to explain why. It makes absolutely no sense to do and in fact could cause more problems.
(wood has stored energy and when you make major cuts in it you may see it twist and bend)
Others have offered reasoning and I have no intentions of changing their beliefs.
The topic has expanded to include electric guitar tops and acoustics but I will address the use of a one-piece body blank and multi-piece body blanks for electric guitars. ( not necks)
One piece body blanks and multi-piece body blanks have been used since the beginning and will continue until....well I don't want to think about that but I'm sure you know.
The reasons are because consumers have choices based on their beliefs and what they like to see.
If there were problems or big advantages with either then the market would reflect it and at this time there is nothing in the market indicating anything other than both work very well.
I don't think one is better than the other for building or after they're finished although sometimes I feel like a play a black one better but then I play a red, gold, silver and figure now it really might be which day I play the black one and I break out in a sweat and think, “why is everything so hard?”.
They're wood. Both methods are easy to build with and both will be fine if you take care of them and don't expose the wood to harsh environments. Everything else is whatever belief you fancy that helps you feel better about spending your coins and makes you feel like the guitar is “special”.
Just don't go cutting one-piece body blanks in half and gluing it back together for any reason...it just makes you look stupid.
I'm done and hope I'm not a stubborn bastard anymore Beep! LOL.
Maybe another year and I'll have more BS to print. Bye and take care Mesh and Beep.
P.S.
I couldn't help but think....players are buying guitars that are beat to hell and crap finishes to look bad and aged while others are pointing out how one type might warp? I'm going back to my planet.
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Beepster
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 18:04:30
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Yay, Spacey!
And yeah... seems if you have a solid hunk of good, properly dried and handled wood that would be more desirable that lopping that piece of wood in half.
However I'm going to assume the "good" and "properly dried/handled" part is where things go screwy (or more accurately time consuming/expensive).
The routing/drilling angle stuff makes sense too. Easier to make all those holes that way.
Sounds like a combo of cost cutting and laziness.
But... people wanna pay $300 for a guit then what can the manus do?
Take care dood. Come back soon.
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ampfixer
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 19:18:53
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Good to see the space man lurking about. I miss his how-to postings very much.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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craigb
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 19:30:06
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Michael! Good to see you back at the asylum. 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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drewfx1
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 19:52:14
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spacey
Just don't go cutting one-piece body blanks in half and gluing it back together for any reason...it just makes you look stupid.
Unless you're putting a neck that runs between them in the middle. Good to see you back for a visit.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/28 21:12:05
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drewfx1
spacey
Just don't go cutting one-piece body blanks in half and gluing it back together for any reason...it just makes you look stupid.
Unless you're putting a neck that runs between them in the middle.
Good to see you back for a visit.
Sorry Drew...they sell billets much cheaper for that. (I have a stack of them just for neck-thru) Should one want to split a body blank at least cut one that is already pieces glued together and tell people it's the only wood you had left. I'll say it one more time...there is no good reason to cut a one-piece body blank and glue it back together. On top of it being a stupid thing to do it's a waste of money and there is a substantial price difference even on the cheaper woods like Poplar for a single vs 3 piece blank. Thanks for the welcome back but I'm not staying. I stated why I offered my views and I'm sure there's somebody somewhere cutting a one piece body blank in half...and people that believe there are good reasons to do it. Just like there are people that believe it's ok to change what another says and people that believe it's alright for them to do it and for no reason other than they think it's alright to do. Which I know without doubt is not right. Makes the place intolerable even though I enjoyed conversing with so many here for many years. Well if you do get a wild hair to cut a one-piece body blank in half and glue it back together...have fun...then you have at least one good reason :) (remembered me hat this time...bye)
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jbow
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 08:27:04
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jbow
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 08:30:34
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drewfx1
jbow
The tone is why Gibson uses a light nitrocellulose finish. A heavy paint job sucks some of the tone away.
This is complete nonsense.
On an electric guitar, what matters is the relationship between the PU's and the strings. Finish simply has no affect on this regardless of common mythology that any little detail must matter. The desire for nitrocellulose is a combination of aesthetics, perhaps the feel of it, and of course vintage mystique.
Finish plays a role with acoustic instruments as it can meaningfully affect the key factors of strength vs. elasticity of, say, an acoustic guitar top.
There is a common belief among some that the same rules apply acoustic and solid body instruments, but it's wrong. On an acoustic instrument the string energy is translated into acoustic sound by the top (and to a lessor extent the back and sides) vibrating up and down as a diaphragm. The key factors are for the wood to move as easily as possible (elasticity) without breaking. On acoustic instruments, one wants to use a finish that enhances rather than impedes these factors.
But nothing like this happens with a solid body instrument - the physics of a thin piece of wood vibrating up and down are completely different than vibrations traveling through a solid piece of wood and arriving at a boundary. Which is exactly why solid bodies make for such terrible "acoustic" instruments.
Cool... thanks for filling me in. I'm always glad to know when I am wrong. I had thought that to be true. What you say makes sense. I have always heard that about the big bridge plate on the Tele making a difference too, I wonder if that is true (or only true for Eric Johnson..  )' Seriously, thanks. J
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BassDaddy
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 09:50:33
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jbow
drewfx1
jbow
The tone is why Gibson uses a light nitrocellulose finish. A heavy paint job sucks some of the tone away.
This is complete nonsense.
On an electric guitar, what matters is the relationship between the PU's and the strings. Finish simply has no affect on this regardless of common mythology that any little detail must matter. The desire for nitrocellulose is a combination of aesthetics, perhaps the feel of it, and of course vintage mystique.
Finish plays a role with acoustic instruments as it can meaningfully affect the key factors of strength vs. elasticity of, say, an acoustic guitar top.
There is a common belief among some that the same rules apply acoustic and solid body instruments, but it's wrong. On an acoustic instrument the string energy is translated into acoustic sound by the top (and to a lessor extent the back and sides) vibrating up and down as a diaphragm. The key factors are for the wood to move as easily as possible (elasticity) without breaking. On acoustic instruments, one wants to use a finish that enhances rather than impedes these factors.
But nothing like this happens with a solid body instrument - the physics of a thin piece of wood vibrating up and down are completely different than vibrations traveling through a solid piece of wood and arriving at a boundary. Which is exactly why solid bodies make for such terrible "acoustic" instruments.
Cool... thanks for filling me in. I'm always glad to know when I am wrong. I had thought that to be true. What you say makes sense. I have always heard that about the big bridge plate on the Tele making a difference too, I wonder if that is true (or only true for Eric Johnson.. )'
Seriously, thanks.
J
The Fender Jaguar has those saw tooth deals the pickups sit in. Leo F put them there to affect the magnetic field and eventually the tone. I would sure think the big Tele bridge plate has to effect the sound.
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jamesg1213
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 11:08:37
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spacey
Thanks for the welcome back but I'm not staying.
Your call, but it's good to see you anyway, I think we all miss your guitar build threads, they were fascinating.
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craigb
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 11:27:45
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 (If not, at least check in once in a while to let us know that you're still above ground!)
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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batsbrew
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 12:14:10
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☄ Helpfulby jbow 2016/01/29 13:07:38
drewfx1
jbow
The tone is why Gibson uses a light nitrocellulose finish. A heavy paint job sucks some of the tone away.
This is complete nonsense
i have absolutely heard this happen to a guitar with a fresh poly finish... versus the way it sounded as raw wood just before the decision to finish it. it's a fact.
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DeeringAmps
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 12:44:27
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I think Spacey misunderstood the dimensions of the "blank" to be split.
A 2" x 7" billet is cut, then edge glued, to make a 1" x 14" body; I don't think anyone splits a 1x14 block.
Of course two separate 1x7's can (are) used as well; depends on the source material.
I also "beg to differ" in regards to finish on a solid body vs hollow body.
Vibration matters! End of discussion.
If a solid body sounds "bad" acoustically, it will sound bad electrified.
No pickup can fix that.
You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear; simple as that.
Just my nickel98 (although you can, and should, "take it to the bank")
Tom
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drewfx1
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 13:05:10
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It's batsbrew
i have absolutely heard this happen to a guitar with a fresh poly finish...
versus the way it sounded as raw wood just before the decision to finish it.
it's a fact.
The only fact is that you believe it. Otherwise you have to provide objective proof. That's the difference between "fact" and "belief".
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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jbow
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Re: A question about making electric guitars
2016/01/29 13:12:47
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I've also always heard that tone is subjective, I guess that is true but maybe it should be "good tone" is objective (DOH!) subjective.  I am glad we are discussing it. It is interesting to me as a guitarist guitar player. J
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