stevec


Geez, AT...    All I can say is +1   
 
I also understand the purist aspect where everything is played live.  I completely get that, having played live for a few decades myself.  But when it comes to recording, and specifically home/project studio recording, aren't "limits" the one thing we've been trying to eliminate all along?   I say bring on everything we can get in DAW-land.
 

I had a guy in the studio a couple of weeks ago.  He was the lead singer for the 3-piece band I was recording.  He refused to do anything in the studio that he could not pull off live.  i.e. If he could not play a complex riff while singing, there was no way he was going to record that complex riff, even if he could play it without singing, giving 100% of his concentration to the riff.


So, I guess, musicians have their own personal ethics around this stuff - not just looping.

Another thing to consider here is that this question is being asked on a Sonar forum.  Yes, Sonar has lots of tools for looping, but if someone who uses a lot of loops in their music was in the market for a DAW, they'd probably be buying something like Ableton Live or Fruity Loops.

I think Sonar is more perceived as a Multi-Track recorder in software.  At least when Project 5 was a separate product, it was a package a "looper" would identify as a tool made for them.  Sonar is much broader and probably not seen as a specific enough product for that kind of consumer.

Not a looper, myself, but I'm always willing to play devil's advocate.

When you hire a professional session musician to come in and lay down a drum track or a bass part or a guitar solo, do you really think he's making up all those cool licks on the spot just for you?

Loops don't listen.

 
Good thing loops can be tweaked.   

I am an instrumental musician, I play guitar, bass, drums and percussion ect, I don't use loops in my solo acoustic songs. That being said I don't feel as though loop is a bad four letter word. 

I have used some loops in instrument projects with lots of tracks. I have used midi loops with session drummer on occasion. I don't feel there is anything wrong with using them.
they are just another tool for creating and experimenting. When I get some time ahead I plan on experimenting with the matrix view just to see what I can really do with loops. Loops sharpen your orchestration skills and they serve as a great exercise for composition and writing.


There are a lot of songs I write where loops would serve no purpose, but they sure are fun to experiment with in certain situations.

The kind of audio/MIDI loop content that Sonar, Reason, Live etc. come with? No. I don't use them at all. 

I find it easier and quicker to record/program some audio/MIDI than I do to dig through hundreds or thousands of loops in the hope of finding the one that seems least wrong in the required context, then start hacking it about in the hope of making it sound less wrong.

However, I will, depending on the musical context, create and use loops myself. E.g. if the bass line is 4 bars long I might record it a few times (to get some variation) then use the takes as loops. Some things I play all the way through, some things I use shorter sections as loops. It all depends.

I do use MIDI/sequencer loops a lot, in the form of step sequencers, whether hardware or software, though again, I create the loop. And programming drum parts generally involves looping unless you've a ridiculous amount of time to put into it. I can't imagine programming 7 minutes of drums a hit at a time without using looping as a creation/productivity aid/tool......

As a songwriter, I find the loops useful to get an idea or a chord progression going, but after percolating the idea into a song, the loops eventually get replaced by live playing and an arrangement of the song idea. The loops will get deleted and overwritten one by one.

The loops that I use to create song ideas tend to be "midi" loops, played through soft synths, not audio loops of pre-recorded instruments / voices / grooves  etc.

my loops library has become somewhat of an illness.
it just keeps getting larger and larger.
i usualy start writing most melodys by picking up an instrument and recording my inspiration.
after this is done,i slice it up into pieces and create the best one song i can,the left overs go into a file marked for their genre.
the loops i do use are 3-5 sometimes up to 10 second loops that can be time stretched or pitched up/down.
i then piece them all together to get a basic foundation.

then i re-record this as a conplete project.
i could probably use the loops but i like every piece to have its own unique sound,not robotic like a loop tends to get,over and over.

loops to me are a songwriters favorite tool,compared to a engineers favorite tool.

Well,I don't use the "loops" much at all,but I have used some of the patterns in S.I. Strings,and I use a lot of MIDI drum patterns,but then modify them...a lot.

As far as the included "Browser" loops/one shots,I do go through them from time to time,but almost never end up using them.

Nearly all the "things" Iv'e got going are usually guitar inspired,and then I "try"[?] to make drum parts to suit,but for some reason the included loops/one shots,haven't been used yet,as keepers.
Bob

Well using loops is definitely not an "age thing", as I am an old fart at 57, and find myself using loops more all the time.  In my opinion, you can use loops and still be a musician.  I view loops much like the colors on an artist's pallete, to be used in the creation of something beautiful.... and after all...what is beautiful????-  It's what YOU think it is!!!  Art and music are so very subjective as to what is "good".

I have found loops can be a source of inspiration just because of a particular sound they make or a mood they evoke... whether I use that loop or not.  Nearly all of my work these days contains at least one loop, and more often, quite a few.  It may be a one-shot or a phrase that is repeated throughout. 

I love using and creating textures in my music, and have found that by combining loops with my own playing, I can blend, layer, solo, or otherwise use the loops to create those textures that might not have been achievable with my own equipment.  And after all, I do not have an aresenal of synthesizers at my disposal, and sometimes the loop was just what I was looking for in a particular sound.

The new content from Sonar has some really nice loops and I've used a few of them already.  It's a shame it is so time-consuming to preview them in order to find just the right one(s).  It can take hours!!  Unfortunately, I don't think Sonar's Loop Construction tool is very user friendly, and there are other algoritims out there that seem to do the required time-stretching chores more handily.  I'd like to see Sonar improve that feature soon!

I have no formal training in music or playing an instrument...only what I've picked up "by ear".  So often, a "piano lick" which I could never play, may be available in a loop, and in the final result (my song), the loop helped me achieve something I consider "music".  After all, it's the final result that matters to the world of listeners...right?  99.99% of the listening public could care less that I spent 487 hours composing this tune.

So I definitely consider myself an artist/musician, even though I utilize loops.  I create with them and around them.  No one has ever listened to my compositions and said "That's not music".

Another positive aspect of using loops is that there are a lot of folks out there who are just starting to realize they may have a musical bone in their body, and creating a song from scratch without any playing ability may be daunting for them, and at least by listening to and arranging some loops on a track pane they may develop some understanding and appreciation for this obsession we call recording.

Happy recording, and have fun using ALL the tools in your musical toolbox!!!

I have tons of sample and loop CDs and DVDs. Paid a fortune, all told. Trying to find a loop that fits what I'm hearing in my head is a time-consuming task and not always rewarded with success.

Usually I ask the musicians themselves to play something and loop that, if appropriate. In this way it sounds like it is part of the same song.

            1) How many Sonar loop user are there?  I never use loops.
 
            2) how do you tranform or mangle the loops by using the plugins in Sonar (X1 or X2)?   See #1
 
            3) Care to share some tips on composition with loops?  See #1.
 
I am not against them in any way.  I just don't use them.

]Regarding the subject of cheating, I once had a someone accusing me of cheating by composing multitrack music on Sonar! I should only be compose on piano solos only! If that person ever heard about composing with loops! She would throw a fit! LOL!

I agree with your ole pal. I think everyone has cheated some way some how to make the sound they want to acheive. Even the purists. Pre recorded material: I don't use it all the time only occasionally, but I make it my own somehow. My grandfather was one of these people. A profession (self taught) gigging pianist. When I finally got him to try my sampling workstation it blew his mind, the creative possibilities. Maybe pre recorded material is not mozart but it can be used creativly and therefore is not a total waste. Well maybe for some stubborn grandfathers.JK relax.

I'm with ya wizard.