A survey, how many Sonar users who use loop?

Hi Guys,
            I am a classically trained pianist and composer who do sequencing by playing 95% of the instrumental parts and I hardly use audio loops, (maybe 1% of the time). So loops ain't my forty here.
 
            So, in light of the new free content coming in Nov, plus the new loops that came togather with and X2, I should have between 5 to 6 Gig of content that I don't know what to do with.
 
          What I am interested in finding out is:
 
            1) How many Sonar loop user are there?
 
            2) how do you tranform or mangle the loops by using the plugins in Sonar (X1 or X2)?
 
            3) Care to share some tips on composition with loops?
 
This is my 2 cent worth of effort trying to get out of my comfort zone and do (learn) something new (please don't laugh).  Plus trying not to waste the tons of loops that the hard working Bakers has "blessed" me with. LOL.

This is somewhat off topic, but I really think there is a generational component to the "to loop or not to loop" question.

I'm in my 40's and the only time I have ever used loops is to throw them in as a place-holder for drums later.  Other than that, I've used them simply to see what they sound like in experiments - they have never ended up in a finished project.

My Son is 18 and a far more accomplished musician than I am.  He uses loops extensively.  I guess my generation of musicians grew up without hearing loops on the radio.

when ever i use loops i tend to make them my self, either in the loop construction, or recycle, i know alot of people use loops to fill a gap and so on, as far as using someone elses loops, it just doesnt feel like my sound, same with synth presets, would rather program my own sounds

I am a 21 year old guitarist composing modern metal. The only time I use loops is when practicing exercises - I use the drum loops included with Superior Drummer because it makes me tighter than playing to a metronome. I don't use any of the loop content in Sonar.

Another metal head - Good to see ya!


I love using loops! I use them all the time. But only after some serious abuse and manhandling. I would never compose anything using only loops in it's purest form. However, I can make my own and use them, but normally I mess them up too

No loops here.  We record mostly Metal, Thrash, punk etc.  Rarely we will copy a part and paste it somewhere else in the performance, but for the most part the artists we work with would rather play the whole thing.

My thoughts on this ... You're not a musician if you use loops. You're an artist, but not a musician. Now that I've made all you 20 somethings head's explode ...

I have used pre-made loops, but it's on extremely rare occasion. I create my own and use them a lot though, but they are always specific to the song I'm working on. In other words, I've never made an arsenal of them to use in multiple songs. 100% of the loops I make are of rhythm guitar and percussion.

The loop editor in Sonar is tricky to use, you really have to think it through before you even start editing your clip in it. But once you understand it, it works good.

Rarely to Never. I have auditioned a few but never used them in a tune.

I used my first loop just this year, for a shaker. Didn't want to draw in hundreds of MIDI events. The results weren't very satisfying, so before the year's out I intend to buy an actual shaker. Then I'm done with loops.

I use loops on client projects and then not a whole lot. Just once and a while they find something in my library that inspires them to work on an idea. I, too, am a trained musician and loops tend to make me feel like I'm cheating. At the same time, isn't using these programs with all these plugs and fx cheating as well? Does it really matter as long as we are able to concieve and complete our musical ideas so easily and conveniently, much less, cost effectively? BTW, there is not a bad shaker sound in the TTS!

I love loops.  I've made entire songs out of loops.  I've used them as the backbone or rhythmic filler/backup.  I don't use them on every song, but many. 

With acid audio loops you can have them follow tempo/chord changes just like a human bassist, guitarist or fill in the instrument blank.  Audio loops can be filtered, gated or have applied any other audio effect. Midi Loops (or is it clips in Cakespeak?) can be edited into "something totally different." 

As for the purists, cool.  But let me point out for classical music, you should then (to be true to your philosophy, Horatio) write every inflection for your music, and fire any musician who strays from exactly what you wrote.  Kinda like Stanley Kubrick and his actors.  It can works if you are in his class.  Better yet, play the whole damn orchestra yourself, so it is all your creation as you intended it (or not, if you can't play the instrument).

As for popular music, the same thing goes.  If you feel guilty using loops created by other people, how can you be fine with your other instrumentalists riffing off your riff?  Imagine Lee Hazelwood stopping the Wrecking Crew when they came up with the walking bass line to "These Boots are Made for Walking" since he didn't write it that way.  If you are in a band, you are intellectually using other people's performance the same way a noobie writing his first loop-based techno song from a loop CD.  The band's song is probably better, maybe more "honest" emotionally but not intellectually.

Looping is a tool, just a tool, whether you use it in the song or as a guide for "real" musicians.  Personally, when I bring in someone to play, I let 'em be.  I can't play the guitar or sax or fiddle but I've gotten great stuff.  And I've seen writers/producers ruin tracks by confusing their players by telling them how to play instead of using their god given talents to improve the song.  Then the producer cuts/pastes/massages the "off" performances into something they can use.  Is that really "better" than using loops, more genuine, more pure?

Sorry for the rant or if I offended any real musicians.  But after over a hundred years of recording technology inventions, it just seems silly to argue over what recording techniques is guilt-free.  Loops may be different than using electricity for your guitar amp, but it is a matter of like, not kind of difference, and everyone should be free to pick and choose their poison.

@

With regard to the subject of using other people's music (loops/samples) in your own pieces, I think it's a valid form of music (as long as you have permission to use them of course!). It's part composing, part arranging. I think you can still be called a musician. After all, it's ultimately your musical ear that makes the choices. 

A musician may "write a song," but the musicians who play on the recording may well contribute their own patterns and "loops" to the composition. For example, take a songwriter like Joe Jackson, and listen to the guitar parts on his first couple of albums. Jackson is not a guitar player. How much of that guitar was written note for note by Jackson, and how much is the creation of guitarist Gary Sanford? Yet we still think no less of JJ's musicianship because he's used the input of other musicians on his compositions. Ultimately, it was his ear that decided on one part over another, in much the same way as the electronic composer may audition loops to find one that fits with his or her composition. 

Although I enjoyed electronic dance music from the late 80's onwards, I think musically I was a little snobby about samples and loops until I heard DJ Shadow's first album "Endtroducing" which was made entirely of loops and samples from other people's music. To create something that was so atmospheric and beautiful from hundreds of snippets was, to me, a wonderful thing. Not sure how much that applies to the use of the prepackaged loops, many of which sound sterile and lifeless, but the principle's the same. 

I play and teach guitar and drums plus play a little keyboards.  I've never used a loop.  If I need a loop I'll make it.  

I have zero interest in using loops in the creation of music.  However, I think they might have an indespensible role in educating oneself in how to use FX effectively.  One of the things on my (lengthy) to-do list is to learn to use compression properly.  I envision finding an appropriate collection of loops and just messing around until things start to make sense.
 
I just watched the Fab Filter Timeless tutorial by Dan Worrall (sp?) on you-tube.  Watch it and you can easily see how loop playback could provide a lab environment for experimenting with delay techniques using this plug-in.  There is much potential here.