spindlebox
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AMBOLA - FINISHED!!! Thanks to all!
OK, so this may be our heaviest guitar song yet and I'm no pro at this by any means. Also, a disclaimer: I mixed this through phones because my wife is taking a nap!!!! http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7175634 Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Scott
post edited by spindlebox - 2009/01/01 18:36:19
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mgh
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/21 16:28:31
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hey Scott i'm guessing scratch drums? now i know you're the bass player, and bass is the one bit which sounds really good. guitars need more body. the vocals are good, if a bit out front (it makes a change from drowning in reverb like your usual!) The snare is too tinny, for this style, as i say i'm guessing the drums are just programmed for demo purposes...i'd pull up the guitars and add body, as i said, to complement the bass and vox, add a bit of verb or delay to the vox, and try to widen the whle sound somewhat. the song is prettyu good though, not as moody as your usual, more straight US rock territory and less goth leanings.
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/21 16:35:28
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No drums are EZ drummer modules actually. I think I just have the compressed snare track too high; again I had my phones on for this mix. I have the KICK / SNARE / OH and entire kit seperately bussed and comp'd. It works well, as long as I don't bring the busses up too high, which I think I did in this case. Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the guitars. I have the guitars hard-panned L-R and the solo dead center. I think the solo needs to come up a bit and EQ'd maybe about 2-3K north, maybe 10K too. I'm trying to be careful with the vox; I don't want to wash them out. I have a tendency to do that, but they need some oomph. I actually have verb and delay on a mirror track, that I can bump up just a hair. I've never really leaned towards goth purposefully, this is just what's coming out at present. Thanks so much!!!!
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Philip
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/21 20:01:34
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Headphones? How am I supposed to take this seriously, Scott? Then this is just a sketch, IIRC. There's a lot that can be said to make this a better mix. Drums need more variance, guitar tracks need attitude and work. Lead Vox is perfectly steady (very impressive to me). 00:58: muffled guitar may need a little more dcb 2:27 middle jam is also muffled and will need a some extra tape or presence. This is my favorite of yours yet (even at this early stage); that sharp-witty unrequitted love motif sincerely rocks (to my ears) this time. (Your other pieces are a bit too strong for my crony tastes.) IOWs, this is downright listenable for me ... and promising. Were this my genre I'd probably say this is too consistent and predictable at present. But the vox sits well, so perfectly well, too my ears. Also the ballad-off-melody kept me alive through to the end. I suspect you will add much more guitar attitude once you study this with monitors. Please excuse my inept crit. I'll follow up on this if you wish ... as it progresses.
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/21 20:41:10
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I'll follow up on this if you wish Yes please! No really I wanted to post this early in the game - as this is a relatively early mix. I had to just get a rough sketch done with phones due to privacy issues, but tomorrow it's just me!!! I just needed some focus points, and you have provided that, Philip, so thank you!!! Nothing inept about the crit!!!! This is exactly what I was hoping for. No surprises though, except for maybe the vox. So I'll be taking a serious stab at this tomorrow and will post the results by afternoon I hope. Cheers! Scott
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lhansen
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/22 16:17:46
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Scott - Your vox sounds good, but as you stated, it becomes a bit tricky as to where it all sits volume-wise. ( I'm guilty ) Creatively, it can turn into a merry-go-round. Sometimes just 1 db can change it all in the mix.. This is a good tune and I would suggest that after everything you want added and tweaked is completed, maybe run two mixes with the vox up front and the other with the vox back a little. I personally like to hear the words so I can understand what the meaning/emotion behind the song is rather than awashed in instrumentation. My teeny 2 pennies....
Slow Marching Band Win 7 x64, Sonar X1E x64, Studio One v2, Focusrite Saffire 24 DSP Pro, Genelec 8030a, True Systems P-Solo, Focusrite ISA One, FMR RNP, GAP-73. "Someone to watch over me".
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/22 16:28:37
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Larry! No that's exactly what I need! I was actually trying to get to a new mix today, but I live in New England and we got 18" of snow last night. I spent about 3 hours cleaning the snow and then with my normal exercise program I'm spent!!!! Tomorrow (Tuesday) I'll be diving straight in!! Please come back.
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/23 18:54:28
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OK, I got a new one in: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7175634 I think I got a wayyy better sound on the drums, especially the snare. The guitars are spread out. the only thing I'm not really liking is my voice; I'm trying to give it body, but the thing I don't like the most is the 'verb. Thinking of cutting it out altogether, or cutting it by 1/2. Thanks in advance, I think she's getting there!!!
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robby
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/23 19:17:55
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Bring those drums up bud..
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/23 19:43:58
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Ok drums up. I hear ya. So much for being careful!!!
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lhansen
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/23 20:17:19
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Getting better Scott, but, I'm unsure about the vocal processing. Back off just a bit on it during the singing as it sounds 'over-verbed'. Love that bass!!
Slow Marching Band Win 7 x64, Sonar X1E x64, Studio One v2, Focusrite Saffire 24 DSP Pro, Genelec 8030a, True Systems P-Solo, Focusrite ISA One, FMR RNP, GAP-73. "Someone to watch over me".
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/23 20:20:23
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ORIGINAL: lhansen Getting better Scott, but, I'm unsure about the vocal processing. Back off just a bit on it during the singing as it sounds 'over-verbed'. Love that bass!! Yep, I'm with you totally. So right now I'm cleaning up vox, upping drums. So far so good. I think I got the guitars screamin' this time. EQ OK? Besides the verb on vocals, how's it sittin? Good mix of instruments? Good bottom end?
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/23 21:47:43
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ok, NEW one uploaded at 9:46pm Done for the night!!! I did everything I specified above. Thanks for hangin' through this one with me!!!
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - Mix Help Please!!
2008/12/25 02:22:41
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Anyone? I'm curious as to whether it's "bassy". I tend to mix these a little "thick". Thanks in advance!
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egervari
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RE: AMBOLA - NEW MIX UP!!
2008/12/25 04:45:47
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I can have a look at it if you want. You can send it to me. I gave you my email address. I think there are lots of imbalance issues in the spectrum. This is a really hard thing to nail, because if you got a bunch of things EQ'd, and they are all done somewhat incorrectly, it's a big mess. No master-bus EQ is really going to fix it. You also have a blending problem. The kick drum is unhearable and lacks the necessary punch. The snare and guitars are clashing. The hi-hats are too tinny. The vocals aren't sitting right here... they need to be louder than the rest of mix... and some parts have too much reverb :( The best thing you can do for issues like this is to throw a CD in that is a very similar style, and play that CD on the same volume as your mix. Then, one instrument at a time, get your sound to be similar. I did this with acoustics and drums. I'm not perfect, but this method has helped me a lot. This gives you a goal - something to move towards. Hearing the same mix and using itself as a reference from your old changes won't really do you any good if you're learning. Seriously, send it to me and I'll have a go at it, then show you what I did. I can always use the mixing/mastering experience. Use something like YouSendIt: http://www.yousendit.com/ Some of my later mixes are these: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7114047 http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7173778 If you like these, then have me give it a go ;)
post edited by egervari - 2008/12/25 04:51:01
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - NEW MIX UP!!
2008/12/25 09:31:26
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Ken, I happen to totally agree with you about the EQ's. EQ'ing is NOT my strongest suit. Something I'm just starting to wrap my head around - but you just may help push me over the edge. It's probably something I can work out for trial and error, but a new perspective would defiinitely be welcome and if you'd like more mixing/mastering experience, then it's all good! You can also check out my custom mixing template!!!!! I think it's pretty cool. What I'll do is send you a BUN file? It may be easiest. Then maybe you can send the fixed file back to me the same way. I looked around for your e-mail address, but was unable to find it here, on Myspace and Soundclick. So if you are really serious, please e-mail me at: scott@alicesweetalice.org, and I'll reply with the BUN file - I may have to use SENDSPACE if it's more than 100MB (SENDSPACE does 300mb). Only issues will be that there are some plugs you won't have. How do you propose getting around that? Off the top of my head, on the guitars I've used BBE sonic Max; Antares Tube. However the tracks are FROZEN so hopefully that will help. Thanks again, and I will await your reply. Merry Christmas!!!
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egervari
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RE: AMBOLA - NEW MIX UP!!
2008/12/25 23:30:19
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Hey Man, Merry Christmas ;) I sent you an email with my address and stuff and some text ;) I haven't received it. I should be up for a bit, so if you want me to work on it, let me know.
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - NEW MIX UP!!
2008/12/26 05:01:30
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Ahhhh! Could you send it again!? I have a pretty hardcore spam/junk filter and may have deleted it, especially if you sent it before I knew about it!! Just let me know what your name comes up as. Sorry for the hassle, but when you're name is out there like mine is, the e-mail tends to get "junked up". But yeah, I'd love to have you work on it for sure. Thanks again, and I'll be eagerly awaiting your reply. Cheers! Hope you had a great X-mas!
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egervari
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RE: AMBOLA - NEW MIX UP!!
2008/12/26 10:32:22
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Hey scott, it comes up as "Ken Egervari", similar to my forum name. I also sent an email through the cakewalk forums. Why is your spam filter filtering out valid results for? I say get a new spam filter. LOL.
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egervari
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RE: AMBOLA - NEW MIX UP!!
2008/12/26 10:39:04
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Also, you can compress it using Rar or Zip and use YouSendIt. That way it won't be 300 meg.
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - NEW MIX UP!!
2008/12/26 11:27:18
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ORIGINAL: egervari Also, you can compress it using Rar or Zip and use YouSendIt. That way it won't be 300 meg. Yeah, AUDIOSNAP makes saving BUN's impossible. I sent you an e-mail with an idea. BTW, YOUSENDIT only accepts files 100mb and under (free account). SENDSPACE is 300mb and you can do multiple files at 1x. It's a better service. But neither will help. I have a dropbox account that we could share a folder - I can upload 2 gigs there. I sent you a message. L8R!
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/29 03:08:01
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OK everybody, I'll be resuming my mixing on this early this week so those of you who were here before today (12/29) please come back, and if you're NEW, I'd love to hear what you think about the one currently posted as that's where I'm starting. I do know that I'm going to be backing off on some drum verbs and tweaking EQ's here and there, but anything specific would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!! —Scott
post edited by spindlebox - 2008/12/29 03:13:15
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DuRod
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/29 19:47:09
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Scott, I just listened to it for the first time today and it sounds great IMO; apparently you're getting the "tweaks" done in the right places. I'm certainly no mix expert so I'll just leave it at that!!
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/29 19:56:25
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Thanks, Duane! That's the first encouraging e-mail in a while - LOL. Yeah, it does need some work though, I was unable to get to it today, I'll change my title to something like "ROUND 2" - maybe come back and have another go? Thanks my friend!!!
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/30 18:23:25
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OK! I finally took another stab at it today. Just uploaded 6:22PM on 12/30. I think I got some of that muddyness out of it, though I just noticed the vocal level needs me to ride the volume envelope just a tad more closely. Other than that, I think it gets the point across. Mix feedback please!!! http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7175634
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jamesyoyo
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/30 18:28:48
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WAAAAAAAAAY too compressed. It actually bothered my ears. But the tune is cool. As most of ASA tunes are.
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/30 18:32:27
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ORIGINAL: jamesyoyo WAAAAAAAAAY too compressed. It actually bothered my ears. But the tune is cool. As most of ASA tunes are. Easy fix. Man, I'm stoked if that's IT!!! (But in my world, nothing is that easy . . . . ) THANKS JAMES!!!!
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/31 02:55:37
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Anybody else?
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jamesg1213
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/31 06:26:52
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Cool song Scott, as usual. Your work has all the ingredients necessary for the genre. Some thoughts on the mix; * Bass - excellent - great tone, really cuts through. * Drums - too far back, snare is coming across as quite tinny and small, which is a shame because when it's heard in the gaps it sounds great. More kick drum to lock in with that bass. * Guitars - great sounds but a little washed out in the mix - too much 'verb? * Vocals - much too much reverb - I would clean those right up and try a cloned track compressed to death (or phone eq-d), underneath the main track (if you haven't already ) Sorry about all the crits, but I reckon you've got a real gem here if you can shine it up.
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spindlebox
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RE: AMBOLA - CONTINUED
2008/12/31 09:15:06
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James, thank you so much!!! YEs, I'm having trouble with the kick and snare a little bit, but I'll get there. Usually by the end of a mixing session, I have trouble hearing small - but IMPORTANT - details like that. My priorities get all skewed!!! Fortunately I have those drums on a bus, so the volume I can bring up, the kick and snare are on sep. busses as well. I think overall, besides the snare (EQ should fix that) the tone is pretty good. My guitarist has me using BBE sonic maximizer on some of those guitar tracks, so I think I'm going to back off the volume of the effect by 50%, I bet that clears it up a bunch. There's actually NO verb on those guitars, just mic'd in a big room. I'm actually using a NY compression technique on the vox now, I just need to get the levels cooperating. As the song is so dynamic, I need to ride the faders with a volume envelope, and then apply the same envelope to the compressed track. I think you can copy/clone an envelope? Anyway, PLEASE DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR THE CRITS. As they're constructive, they're extremely helpful. I'll be on this again early afternoon EST, so hopefully I can get that cleared up. I'll change title again. Peace!
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