Beagle,

I have to imagine that adding a couch to a room would be a rather significant change to the EQ curve of the room. It would seem to me that it alone is a crude bass trap (maybe not 100 efficient) if it has any sort of padding in it.

bapu


Beagle,

I have to imagine that adding a couch to a room would be a rather significant change to the EQ curve of the room. It would seem to me that it alone is a crude bass trap (maybe not 100 efficient) if it has any sort of padding in it.

I agree.  but I didn't think it would change it as drastically as it did.  looking at the corrected curve on the graph of ARC it really only appears that the resonant frequencies shifted instead of damping them completely.  in fact, the amplitudes look higher than the last graph did.  [shrugs]
 
anyway - I'm happy for now and am anxious to see how well it translates to mixing.

Bristol_Jonesey


Is there a sale of ARC on currently?

I see I can pick this up for £129 at DV247.

Last time I looked I swear it was at least double that price.

Yes, it is currently on sale here:  http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/ 

OK so I have a question: 

Danny said: “The correction procedure” 
1. Make sure your mic is set pointing straight up ........ From there, run the test tones again and make sure the "K" in "OK" is flickering. No louder, no lower. This is important.  

2. Next, (and this is SUPER important) make sure when you tap on the mic that you cannot hear it coming back through the speakers. You must disable input monitoring on your soundcard so that sound can send, yet not be heard. If you don’t know how to do this, neither do I because I use a mixing console, so I have other options that you may not. 

so...... 

Point #2.... how do you get the mic to pick up the test bursts and NOT play it back like it normally does in Sonar X1?  I have never really wanted to NOT monitor the inputs but what Danny says makes sense. I think I have a few slow days here this week so I will turn the DAW on and see if I can figure this out. 


When I was setting ARC up and doing the test runs..... I can tell you I got it wrong several times, and with the speakers playing back what the mic heard, feedback was an issue. I had to turn off the sub to even get any sort of test to work.... and I know that was skewing the results. 


Also.... the first time you run ARC's test burst...be sure the outputs are down.... dang that test burst was loud.  I had to adjust my saffire control panel a bit in this process. So while I have it "set up" (ARC) I probably need to re-do it and delete the previous presets since they were not done to spec...like hand holding the mike while seated in the chair in the sweet spot.


So... I know I need to re-calibrate the test and run it again. This time, the correct way. 




Now.... to other things. The best way to use ARC is to insert it at the very beginning of the process so that your ears do NOT hear anything but the ARC'd sound in the monitors. If you bounce back and forth, you will probably want to shut it off and mix straight in Sonar. We all want to hear the sweetest sound, but in this case it is worth waiting until the end. The point is to correct the sound so that you get an honest representation unflavored by the room at this point.  Avoid jumping back and forth. Let your ears adjust to the corrected sound. It will not be long until you accept the sound of ARC and start mixing a bit more accurately. 


 I noticed that it lightens the bass in my system/room considerably. So... in the process of tracking and mixing I simply go for the sound that I want to hear. In the mix down stages, I do what I need to do with EQ and compression and other plugs to get the sound I am hearing to be what I expect it to sound like. When I finish, having added the plugs and Ozoned it to perfection (according to me) I turn ARC off and have a listen and it's like a butterfly emerging from it's cocoon and 99% of the time there is nothing that needs to be done to the mix at this point except to export it to a wave. 



note: even with a screwed up set up procedure, I can see the improvement.....so once I take the time to do it right, it should be pretty slick. 

SCorey

Guitarhacker
Point #2.... how do you get the mic to pick up the test bursts and NOT play it back like it normally does in Sonar X1? I have never really wanted to NOT monitor the inputs but what Danny says makes sense. I think I have a few slow days here this week so I will turn the DAW on and see if I can figure this out.

 
The ARC measurement program doesn't have any sort of input monitoring capability, so you need to turn all that off in your sound device's control software. If it is on it will most certainly wreck the measurements. Danny's tip of tapping the mic and making sure you can't hear it when setting up for the measurements is a great one.
 

Also.... the first time you run ARC's test burst...be sure the outputs are down.... dang that test burst was loud
 

I suggest wearing earplugs when doing the measurements. Those chirps drive me nuts.

+1! Thanks Steve....I didn't realize this thread was still going on. LOL!
 
Herb: I've done it two ways. The way Steve mentioned....by simply disabling input monitoring in your soundcard software, and when I have used a console with ARC, I can mute the input and still allow the signal to pass through so the mic is hot, but you can't hear the mic if you tap it.
 
If you leave the mic hot to where you can actually hear it when you tap on it, you're getting double signals from ARC and if you have any sort of phasing issues after your correction, that's why. It's playing back twice during the correction.
 
Also, don't forget to try and get your latency as low as possible for the correction procedure. I got mine down to 32 samples ASIO and then it crapped out on me during the test bursts when I was calibrating the "OK" thing...so I increased to 64 and everything was fine. What's weird is, I can run in Sonar at 32 samples 95% of the time depending on the project...but ARC didn't want any parts of that. LOL!
 
But yeah man, if your mic was hot to where you could tap it and hear it, it was sending out the test bursts again. That's definitely going to jack up your final results. This is where ARC will fail for people and this is why (in my opinion) it has probably gotten a bad rap from a few people. There's no way the people testing this or writing reviews went through all the trouble that I and others have gone through. They simply don't have the time. I'd be willing to bet they weren't as symmetrical as they could have been and did the whole test thing pretty fast. The first time I did it, I did it fast and didn't pay attention to detail. I wasn't happy with my results...but I knew I was half-@ssing it. The next correction, more in depth but still not as correct as it should have been. The third time, I got it and still have that correction today as well as a few others I've experimented with. They all sound the same for the most part.
 
I've yet to read a review where someone went through the pains of hell like I have while telling people how they did it and how long the procedure took. SOS stated: "Next comes the room measurement process, which takes about ten minutes." I just laughed at that. Then again, I've stopped reading comments about ARC and I've stopped posting about it as often. If someone doesn't want to believe in it, that's fine by me. They can keep mixing crap mixes if they want to while buying all that ugly room stuff and I'll keep this little gem for myself.
 
I also don't have to get involved in confrontations from jack-a-lopes that don't know what they're talking about anyway that have never presented a mix worth anything. Not to mention, most of them haven't tried ARC to even say a word. That's what REALLY gets me. If people have tried it and did it right and still failed...what can I say....I'm deeply sorry, you're in the minority. I've never used Ableton Live...I'd look like a fool if I read the stat sheets on it and decided it's better than Sonar or not as good as Sonar without trying it, ya know? You just never know how something works "for you" until you try it and try it the right way.
 
But make no mistake....if you do it right, it works. I use it in every room I work in with great results. The set up (taping the floor, writing down the symmetrical placements as well as the procedure) should take about an hour and a half or so. It took me 35 minutes to prep taping the floor etc and 40-45 minutes to do the correction procedure. If it's not taking a person that long, they aren't doing it right...and rest assured, those that have reviewed it with negative results, didn't take that long to do it....I'd bet all that I own there.
 
Even if they did, I'd still want to re-trace their steps to see if they forgot something like leaving the mic hot or forgetting to adjust their latency...or not enough signal at the calibration, or using the wrong mic code, or not positioning the mic correctly at the ears/nose, or not putting the mic straight up or not being symmetrical. There's so much that needs to be considered when making this work correctly, it's easy to see how and why people might give it bad reviews. You can't miss one detail or it will affect the entire process. Worst case scenario...it's a great eq for getting monitors relatively flat just like having someone come to your house and do it for you and in my opinion, this is way more accurate.
 
-Danny

SCorey

ARC made it sound different. Not better. I couldn't hear anything better with the ARC version.  It's also a bit of a pain to remember to keep turning it off when bouncing. It's certainly no improvement for me.
 

It's not supposed to sound better, just flatter.

SCorey


I'm sorry I can't post any of my mixes. They aren't mine to post, they're done for hire and I don't have permission. It's perfectly fine if you want to discount my opinion of ARC since you can't hear what I've produced. But I do think you've gone over the top on your criticism of those of us who don't like it.
 
And if you notice, in my post above I did try to help someone else get the most out of it. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I won't try to help.

P.S. I quoted this and missed reading it for some reason. Do you think I have something against you, Steve? I absolutely do not man. Again I stress, my post was not directed at you nor do you have to provide mixes to prove your're a good engineer.
 
Let me set up a small scenario. A guy comes on here with a big mouth bashing ARC. He knows everything (so he thinks) and bashes ARC into the ground due to what he reads and how it can't possibly make a difference. The dude never shows us any of his great works and when he does present something, it's nothing special to where anyone should listen to what the dude says because he needs more than room correction and ARC to help him with his mixes. To me it just holds no credibility.
 
I don't think you fit that bill brother and if you thought I implied you did, please accept my apology because that has never crossed my mind and I mean it, I have nothing against you. So if you think that, I'd be willing to discuss any questions you may have in private if it will help any. I also said "+1 Thanks Steve" to start my thread, addressed Herb next and then was just speaking in general...not to anyone or about anyone in particular. Hope this clears things up. If not, please pm me.

-Danny

gustabo
It's not supposed to sound better, just flatter.

 
What I mean by "better" is "ARC adjusts the sound so I can hear things better so I can be more effective in my production." To me, flatter and better are mostly synonymous.
 

Danny Danzi
Do you think I have something against you, Steve? I absolutely do not man. Again I stress, my post was not directed at you nor do you have to provide mixes to prove your're a good engineer.
 

No, I don't think you have something against me.  It's my failing for truly derailing the thread. So, my apologies for that.
 

I don't know that my statements are bold, Steve. I think they are quite true.
 

But even if you think they're true, they are your opinion. That's mainly what I was getting at. And I still think they're bold.  That's my opinion, of course. 
 
And it's not like I want you to tone it down. There's nothing wrong with being bold or over the top. Keep on doin' what you're doin'. And I'll do the same. No worries.