ARC System Measurement for Studio 'Corrective Monitoring'

Have not tried the ARC. Have tried manual eq correction before. It sounded much tighter. Did not play around with it much but I imagine it would be better than no treatment, but not as good as the real thing. The reason being smearing of certain frequencies and that if you move your head into the wrong spot, it sounds wrong.

 - Smearing: resonance as well as constructive interference goes on at the modes (well, some). The constructive interference (or 'boosting' of certain frequencies) can be reduced with eq. Good. Better, for that one location. Unfortunately the RESONANCE that is found at that frequency remains. You can't get rid of that (unless ARC is so smart it can utlise noise reduction technologo to cancel out the resonsnace as well because it learns the room so well.. Sounds far fetched but I don't know enough about ARC to pass judgement). This will result in a smearing of certain bass notes, so one frequency will 'roll' into another. This is going to make things not sound as tight as they are and potentially screw with reverb (if you're using low stuff), gates (if you're using to gate a kick for example), compressor settings on bass etc. If the ARC can correct for this, I'll be pleased to hear.

 - Only works for one location: even slight movements of the head can make audible differences in frequency response. I believe ARC takes readings at multiple places that you might work in and find the best solution? If so, results may vary considerably from room to room. If one room tends to be pretty uniform, ARC is going to do a good job, otherwise it might not as it has no way of knowing where your head is at one point in time.

 - Nulls: Can ARC do anything for nulls? I wouldn't have thought so... But again, I don't know enough about it so am eager to hear.


I'm sure ARC works great, but I'm sure proper treatment is better. Being a home recordist, I understand how difficult it can be to have a fully decked out room, so in those cases, ARC might just well do the trick. Hell, if I see enough convincing results on this thread maybe I'll look into it myself...

Hi Philip,

I'd like to answer your questions first, and then supply a little article I've written for you in case you decide to try the correction procedure again.

1. I have excellent translations with this on all my speakers.

2. Yes I'm used to flipping it on and off and had to condition myself at first. The key for me was to literally create busses with multiple instances of ARC already there. This way, when you are ready to export, you just set your master bus to your main soundcard outs where for mixing, the out of your master bus would be sent to ARC.

3. Yes my corrections were quite shocking. I had loads of bass going on that was removed in one set of monitors...which always bothered me because I was always bass light. On the other set of monitors, it gave me more bass and while mixing with them in the past, I was always bass heavy. ARC solved both issues with them.

4. I have no bass traps in my room nor do I have any other ugly decor so to speak. I've been doing pro work here for many years. If you like the sound of my mixes etc and the info I have shared past and present, it's more proof this sort of stuff is not a necessity...at least in my world. ARC fixed everything for me. I have no issues mixing and I never question anything. Without ARC, I'd be mixing in headphones because my monitors just would never give me the right representation.

I have Adam's as well as the Sub 8. I found that after the ARC correction was applied, I was mixing a bit bass heavy...but 100% better than anything I had done before. The fix was to increase the level of the sub from one notch below 0dB to placing it AT 0dB. This gave me more bass in my mixes which made me mix bass "lighter" and I've not touched it since. So you may have to make a few small corrections like that.

Now for some stuff I think you will enjoy. Here are the guidelines I used to do my room. Hopefully they will help you too if you didn't go about the correction this way.

ARC pre-prep:
 
First, make sure your monitors are set up in a perfect triangle and are as many feet apart from each other as they are from your favorite listening sweet spot. This is important. Next, make sure they are not up against the wall. I know that some of us don’t have a choice when in a bed room or spare room, but try to be as far away from the wall as possible without losing too much of your space.
 
If you have a sub: If you have a sub, listen to a CD you know and love. Mix enough of the sub in to where it just adds some low end thump. Be careful where you put the sub frequency selection. Most rooms are going to need 75Hz to 85Hz brought in using a sub. Sweep through the frequencies of your sub with the sub turned up pretty good so you can hear where it is accentuating. Once you find the place you like, back the sub level down so it just gives you nice low end and compliments the CD you are listening to, to where you say “yep, that sounds fantastic to me!” Also, make sure no settings on your monitors are being enhanced. Some monitors have eq controls on the back of them for boosting or cutting frequencies. Let ARC do all that...make sure these are flat. Now you are ready to work with ARC!
 
Read the manual really well and the steps it tells you to take, then keep all that in mind and do these steps. This is the best I can tell you about it and what worked for me below.
**Note**If you do your room corrections using the latest software and get an illegal operation when the software tries to save your room correction, it’s a bug that hasn’t been fixed yet. For me, here’s what worked and what you’ll need to do. If you do not get a crash when you do the room correction procedure, skip to part 1.
 
*Alt correction method is ONLY FOR THOSE WITH FAILED CORRECTION ATTEMPTS!*
 
Alternative correction method: First, make sure you are using ARC software 1.1 or version 1.1.1. Trust me on this, those versions work better for correction. I'm using 1.1.1 right now but did my corrections using 1.1 and earlier. We have a few issues that are known to IK at this time with the later versions of the software for *some* users. A few of those issues I have reported myself and am keeping in touch with IK on the situation. But there are no issues with the earlier versions I mentioned as far as doing the correction procedure. You can update to the latest after the correction if you want to. But I stick with 1.1.1 after my corrections. If you need to know why, just ask me and I’ll gladly tell you.

 
“The correction procedure”

1. Make sure your mic is set pointing straight up to where it is equal to your nose and ears (get a mirror or have someone else set it) and right in the center for your sweet spot which is placement 1. Set your latency as low as possible and listen to the test tones. If you hear any drop outs, raise the latency samples a little at a time until you have no drop-outs and the lowest latency possible. From there, run the test tones again and make sure the "K" in "OK" is flickering. No louder, no lower. This is important.

2. Next, (and this is SUPER important) make sure when you tap on the mic that you cannot hear it coming back through the speakers. You must disable input monitoring on your soundcard so that sound can send, yet not be heard. If you don’t know how to do this, neither do I because I use a mixing console, so I have other options that you may not.

3. Next, map out all your placements with tape and be as symmetrical as humanly possible. Try to do at least 18-20 symmetrical placements if you can. When you go to do the correction tests, move yourself out of the line of fire for each test burst. It gives you a few seconds to clear the area. That’s all there is to it. Once you get done the correction, do NOT toggle ARC off and on to hear what you had other than a few times when you first start using it. You have to get used to this sound and toggling back and forth will be the death of you. Also, if you don’t have a sub, you may want to get one because it really does help. Just my NS-10’s didn’t work too well with ARC...but once I used my sub and did the corrections, it all worked perfectly. That’s it....good luck! :)
 
One last thing. Since you have ARC, you are going to have to bring your tunes into Sonar or some program to listen to them properly. This to me is a complete downer and something that bothered me. I don't know how it was brought up, but I was talking on this forum and Zo comes out of nowhere while on a skiing trip or something and tells me about a VST plugin for Winamp that allows you to run ARC in it automatically! So years later, thank you Zo for bringing this to my attention!! (hugs my friend!)

The key to this, and how I run things here, is to run 2 media players. I'll explain the method to my madness as well as give you the plugin link. I run all mp3's using Win media. All eq's and performance enhancement disabled. Win Media player runs off of my Realtek soundcard which powers Altec Lansing 5.1 speakers not being used in surround mode. These speakers are the best pc speakers I have ever used and they allow me to monitor in a really good consumer environment. Ever so slightly bitey at about 6k, but nothing that sticks out to you as "uggh!"
 
For wave files, I use Winamp and run the plugin Zo told me about. This auto loads ARC permanently with the correction I want for my Adams or I can change it to my NS 10's, Genelecs, Tascam's, Tannoy or whatever else I want to listen through. I usually leave this set to my Adam A-7's though. If I want to play an mp3 through here, I can do that also. But having both players is kinda cool and I also have the file associations and icons looking different so I know in an instant that a wave file has the winamp icon, mp3's have the Windows media icon. It just keeps things tidier for me and allows me to toggle better. The link for the plugin loader for Winamp can be found here: 

http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/programs/winamp/

I was not able to use the latest version of the plug for Win 7 x64. So for me, it's 1.4 I believe...if not 1.4, it's 1.3. This will stop you from having to load CD's and other audio files into a DAW to hear it correctly using ARC. Hope this helps...best of luck! :)

-Danny

Danny Danzi


 I'd be mixing in headphones because my monitors just would never give me the right representation.

Yup. I hear that and that's where I'm at. In my present room monitors are pretty much useless. I do turn them on to check mixes when I'm done... mainly to listen to the low end, but I cannot trust them to do anything else.

You definitely want to use a boom stand. The mic is very sensitive and even moving it a little bit can throw the measurements and corrections off.

Danny, thanks so much for the recommendation, really appreciate it! I had no idea you even knew I was in Perth! And congrats - to have an international reputation is no small achievement. If this guy can afford to get you out, you'll have a blast - he's obviously very serious about making a killer record. Of course, if you come please do get in touch, both Greenwood and Beechboro are not far from where I live. I'll have a few beers ready for you...

Philip, you absolutely MUST take the measurements using a stand! As Danny has mentioned in other threads, accuracy is extremely important when taking measurements with the ARC system - results can vary hugely. You really can't be too careful here. I spent half a day setting up my measurement points, using a plum bob and rule. I marked each measurement point on a large bit of cardboard, which is now my template, so I don't have to re-measure every time. If your measurement points are just 'rough enough' then I'd say there's a fairly strong chance that ARC will make the monitoring situation worse.

James and Danny,

I'm glad Providence is working for you guys.

1) I'll redo measurements with painstaking exactness (boomstand, tape-measure, and plumbing bob (or some leveling device) -- haha!  Unfortunately (due to my 6 22"-computer display-monitors), my sweet spot is not perfectly equilaterally located in the listening triangle.

2) I suppose I should borrow my stereo sub (if that seems OK with you guys) (AKA, instead of buying another one ... since the <80 Hz/cycles are large waveforms and smeared, IIRC),

... and try to get it away from the wall (and/or allow it as a guest chair or guitar chair or something -- LOL).

DeeringAmps


To All,
Just installed ARC on my DAW (see desc in sig below).
Downloaded 1.3.1 (today) and installed.
Fired ARC up and ran a "quick" test in my office.
NO ISSUES saving the test file. Danny correct me if I'm wrong, but you have had issues saving the test in v1.3.1; right?
I fired up 8.5.3x64 and put ARC on the Master buss; all good.
Saved the project and re-opened; NO issues, works perfectly.
Fired up X1(xyz) x32 and opened the project; NO issues.
Did a cold boot of Windows and opened the project in 8.5 and X1 again, ARC comes up just as it should and works flawlessly right from the get go.
That's how its working here with a fresh install of ARC 1.3.1 on Win 7x64.
HTH
YMMV
PS: the IK installer wants to put the x64 dll in "Programs\vstplugins", I always change that to "Programs\Cakewalk\vstplugins".
I'm pretty sure that the x64 T-Racks 3 install went the same way, just be sure you add "Programs\vstplugins" to your scan paths if you don't change that when installing...

Hi Tom,
 
Thanks for the info! The version before 1.3.1 crashed upon a correction save, but that was when I was using Win XP. The versions before 1.3.1 also would not save the preset of the plug when saved inside of Sonar. It looks as though things are working perfectly for you...that's great to hear! You're sure when you open Sonar that it is playing the correction, right?
 
See this gets a bit weird. It will boot up in a saved Sonar project and have the right correction showing (at least for me, but I've not tried 1.3.1 yet)  but when you play back and press the orange light to disable it, if it is not working properly, you will hear no changes in your correction. It shows as loaded and all is well, it just hasn't played back right unless I reload the correction file inside ARC. If you are hearing a difference upon opening a project and toggling the orange button off and on, you are working correctly. If there is no change while pressing the button other than a click/pop and no major change in sound, it's still broken. Thanks Tom...I hope ARC was everything I said it was. :)

Danny - I have had the same experience as Tom.  and when by-passing it is very obvious that it has been correcting my low end because it sounds like I no longer have a low end (relatively) when I enable ARC.

I had no problems with saving the test file (I made 25 measurements for my first test).  I didn't try it in 8.5.3, but in X1 64bit it has been working fine since I installed it.

DeeringAmps


Danny,
The "corrected" project sounds much different, so YES, I am sure its working.
Just re-booted to verify.
I'll just have to learn to turn ARC off when I export.

I'm wondering if the clean install has anything to do with the save and settings issues?

Are you running the sub off its own analog out? IF so do you EQ that output, meaning put a low-pass on it?

Thanks

Hi Tom,
 
It must be working correctly then and I can probably move over to 1.3.1. I'll explain my situation. I had a box running XP and always updated ARC each time they updated it. On one of the updates, it would save in my Sonar project but wouldn't play the correction as I mentioned. I reverted to an older version and I was fixed.
 
Another new version came out and I read something about "if you use this new version, you should do a re-correction of your room since we have made some fixes to the correction procedure." So, I saved my old corrections, but downloaded and installed the latest ARC and redid my room corrections. When I was done the correction and went to save what had taken me an hour, it crashed on me. I tried it again, and it crashed on me again at the end. Later in that week, a bud of mine who had purchased ARC called me and said "dude, I can't make it save the correction file...it crashes on me every time!"
 
So we then found out that this was a problem and went back a version or two and we were all fixed up. Now, the pc I mentioned to you above died about a year ago. I had Jim Roseberry build me a box running Win 7 x64. The latest ARC version during that time last year, I didn't try to do a correction with because all my corrections were done already and backed up. So all I had to do was load them into the ARC folder upon install. When ARC was loaded and my correction was loaded, it worked fine. I saved the project with ARC in the bus, and shut down Sonar. Sonar 8.5 32 bit by the way. When the project was re-opened, I noticed it sounded funny....the sound of uncorrected monitors. I double click ARC that's already on the bus, it shows the right correction, is enabled, but it clicking the orange button doesn't change the sound at all. Reload the correction from the preset menu, it works, save the project, reopen, it's not working again. So I knew this was still not fixed and went back to 1.1.1 I believe and I've been there ever since. I'll have to try this new one and see if it works for me. I'm just afraid to mess with things. I've been fortunate that just reverting back has always helped fix my problem. I'm just afraid that one of these times, it's gonna screw me over and I just can't afford to take that chance with the amount of work I do.
 
As for the sub, I have it routed into a hardware controller that allows all the speakers that pass through the unit to have the sub play along with them. There's a dedicated sub button on the hardware controller that allows me to enable or disable it. I don't use any channels for it. My Adam monitors go into the sub, the sub into this monitor controller box, and then all other monitors go into the box and the sub will play along with any of them that are selected. ARC was used to correct them all with the sub being on and off.

Beagle


Danny - I have had the same experience as Tom.  and when by-passing it is very obvious that it has been correcting my low end because it sounds like I no longer have a low end (relatively) when I enable ARC.

I had no problems with saving the test file (I made 25 measurements for my first test).  I didn't try it in 8.5.3, but in X1 64bit it has been working fine since I installed it.

Glad it's working for you Reece. Yeah, if this thing wasn't working, you would hear the sound of your old monitors while ARC was enabled...and pressing the button on and off would not change anything. If you are hearing a difference upon opening a saved Sonar project where toggling the plug or the orange button on and off makes a huge difference in sound, you are working properly. You like it so far?
 
-Danny

Danny,
Thanks for the update. After I asked the sub question it dawned on me that a separate out wouldn't work, as ARC wouldn't know it was there during testing. I'm looking at the Adam Sub8 to go with my A7's.
I'm religious about using the Win 7 image function.
I never update anything without burning an image first.
I've only had to do this once on my StudioCat, (revert to a previous image I mean).
I've got 255 gigs of images, maybe I should delete a few...

Thanks again!

OK,
See if I have this right...
All buses to the MASTER (which I do now), then the MASTER to the ARC busses (assuming multiple monitors), always export to the MASTER (or from if you prefer).
Works for ME!

Last question:
Where are you picking up your headphone mixes? Do you just pull that off the mixer, after correction, or do you have a non-corrected out for the headphone amp?

I don't mix with the cans, but I do listen (track obviously), especially for little "noises" on anything that was mic'd.

Danny, really appreciate your help!

I guess when I can afford to spend on studio gear again I'll get some good near fields and then look at how the room is influencing sound. That will be a glorious day!

DeeringAmps


OK,
See if I have this right...
All buses to the MASTER (which I do now), then the MASTER to the ARC busses (assuming multiple monitors), always export to the MASTER (or from if you prefer).
Works for ME!

Last question:
Where are you picking up your headphone mixes? Do you just pull that off the mixer, after correction, or do you have a non-corrected out for the headphone amp?

I don't mix with the cans, but I do listen (track obviously), especially for little "noises" on anything that was mic'd.

Danny, really appreciate your help!

 
Yep, you got it Tom. It would look like the pic above. All other busses to the right of the NS-10 bus will be sent to either master or something else. For example, when I make a tom bus, I'll send the out of the tom bus to my drum bus, then the drum bus to the master. But all I have to do with ARC is click the drop down box there where it says "A7's" on the master bus, and it will give me an option for NS-10's. When I'm ready to export, mute A7 and NS-10 bus, change the A7 out in the master bus to Layla 1/2 and export.
 
As for my headphones, they are fedfrom the console and then to a headphone distribution amp. I have a few ways to route from there. I can just send the A7 out in the master bus to straight Layla 1/2 or I have individual headphone channels set up for each guy in the band via aux's so that they can hear what they want in their cans. :) Hope this helps.

jamescollins


...setting up my measurement points, using a plum bob and rule. I marked each measurement point on a large bit of cardboard, which is now my template, so I don't have to re-measure every time.

That sounds like a good way to do it... accurate, efficient and consistent.


as far as mic stand type, it has been said in this thread to use a boom.
is it preferable to use a boom than a pedestal?
i think for moving the stand to the next location, that a pedestal would be more accurate for me, because my boom tends to spin or wiggle a bit at the main swivel point. also, the base has tri-pod legs that move when it's lifted. the pedestal seems to be much better in these regards. could it be the mic would receive less reflections from the boom stand?

Danny Danzi



ARC pre-prep:
 
First, make sure your monitors are set up in a perfect triangle and are as many feet apart from each other as they are from your favorite listening sweet spot. This is important. Next, make sure they are not up against the wall. I know that some of us don’t have a choice when in a bed room or spare room, but try to be as far away from the wall as possible without losing too much of your space.
 
If you have a sub: If you have a sub, listen to a CD you know and love. Mix enough of the sub in to where it just adds some low end thump. Be careful where you put the sub frequency selection. Most rooms are going to need 75Hz to 85Hz brought in using a sub. Sweep through the frequencies of your sub with the sub turned up pretty good so you can hear where it is accentuating. Once you find the place you like, back the sub level down so it just gives you nice low end and compliments the CD you are listening to, to where you say “yep, that sounds fantastic to me!” Also, make sure no settings on your monitors are being enhanced. Some monitors have eq controls on the back of them for boosting or cutting frequencies. Let ARC do all that...make sure these are flat. Now you are ready to work with ARC!
 
Read the manual really well and the steps it tells you to take, then keep all that in mind and do these steps. This is the best I can tell you about it and what worked for me below.
**Note**If you do your room corrections using the latest software and get an illegal operation when the software tries to save your room correction, it’s a bug that hasn’t been fixed yet. For me, here’s what worked and what you’ll need to do. If you do not get a crash when you do the room correction procedure, skip to part 1.
 
*Alt correction method is ONLY FOR THOSE WITH FAILED CORRECTION ATTEMPTS!*
 
Alternative correction method: First, make sure you are using ARC software 1.1 or version 1.1.1. Trust me on this, those versions work better for correction. I'm using 1.1.1 right now but did my corrections using 1.1 and earlier. We have a few issues that are known to IK at this time with the later versions of the software for *some* users. A few of those issues I have reported myself and am keeping in touch with IK on the situation. But there are no issues with the earlier versions I mentioned as far as doing the correction procedure. You can update to the latest after the correction if you want to. But I stick with 1.1.1 after my corrections. If you need to know why, just ask me and I’ll gladly tell you.

 
“The correction procedure”

1. Make sure your mic is set pointing straight up to where it is equal to your nose and ears (get a mirror or have someone else set it) and right in the center for your sweet spot which is placement 1. Set your latency as low as possible and listen to the test tones. If you hear any drop outs, raise the latency samples a little at a time until you have no drop-outs and the lowest latency possible. From there, run the test tones again and make sure the "K" in "OK" is flickering. No louder, no lower. This is important.

2. Next, (and this is SUPER important) make sure when you tap on the mic that you cannot hear it coming back through the speakers. You must disable input monitoring on your soundcard so that sound can send, yet not be heard. If you don’t know how to do this, neither do I because I use a mixing console, so I have other options that you may not.

3. Next, map out all your placements with tape and be as symmetrical as humanly possible. Try to do at least 18-20 symmetrical placements if you can. When you go to do the correction tests, move yourself out of the line of fire for each test burst. It gives you a few seconds to clear the area. That’s all there is to it. Once you get done the correction, do NOT toggle ARC off and on to hear what you had other than a few times when you first start using it. You have to get used to this sound and toggling back and forth will be the death of you. Also, if you don’t have a sub, you may want to get one because it really does help. Just my NS-10’s didn’t work too well with ARC...but once I used my sub and did the corrections, it all worked perfectly. That’s it....good luck! :)
 
One last thing. Since you have ARC, you are going to have to bring your tunes into Sonar or some program to listen to them properly. This to me is a complete downer and something that bothered me. I don't know how it was brought up, but I was talking on this forum and Zo comes out of nowhere while on a skiing trip or something and tells me about a VST plugin for Winamp that allows you to run ARC in it automatically! So years later, thank you Zo for bringing this to my attention!! (hugs my friend!)

The key to this, and how I run things here, is to run 2 media players. I'll explain the method to my madness as well as give you the plugin link. I run all mp3's using Win media. All eq's and performance enhancement disabled. Win Media player runs off of my Realtek soundcard which powers Altec Lansing 5.1 speakers not being used in surround mode. These speakers are the best pc speakers I have ever used and they allow me to monitor in a really good consumer environment. Ever so slightly bitey at about 6k, but nothing that sticks out to you as "uggh!"
 
For wave files, I use Winamp and run the plugin Zo told me about. This auto loads ARC permanently with the correction I want for my Adams or I can change it to my NS 10's, Genelecs, Tascam's, Tannoy or whatever else I want to listen through. I usually leave this set to my Adam A-7's though. If I want to play an mp3 through here, I can do that also. But having both players is kinda cool and I also have the file associations and icons looking different so I know in an instant that a wave file has the winamp icon, mp3's have the Windows media icon. It just keeps things tidier for me and allows me to toggle better. The link for the plugin loader for Winamp can be found here: 

http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/programs/winamp/

I was not able to use the latest version of the plug for Win 7 x64. So for me, it's 1.4 I believe...if not 1.4, it's 1.3. This will stop you from having to load CD's and other audio files into a DAW to hear it correctly using ARC. Hope this helps...best of luck! :)

-Danny

Danny - I set up ARC according to your procedure this weekend on my rebuilt system.  it sounds very very different from my original ARC setup.  Granted, I've added a small couch in my room since my initial measurements, but I don't think it would have changed that drastically.  before when I engaged ARC, it sounded like all of the bass left the building.  gone, nada.  I couldn't hear any bass unless I cranked up the EQ on the low end WAY up.  I had a worse time trying to mix with ARC on than I ever did with ARC off.
 
Now the changes seem much more sutble using your method.  I know the first time I was not meticulous about symmetry and I only took the minimum amount of measurements.  this weekend I took 30 measurements all symmetrical from the starting point. 
 
now the bass is still diminished (my graph shows riniging at ~150Hz, ~300Hz, ~600Hz) but it's not nearly what it was before.  I fully believe this will be much easier to mix on and I'm anxious to start a mix to see how it goes!
 
thanks!