ASIO vs. MME... getting better latency with MME??

I tried using ASIO with my M-Audio Fast Track MKII USB interface, and I had to use the following in order to playback my project without any popping or buzzing:

25.6 msec, 1130 samples

Any lower, and I'll get lots of artificts in the playback. However, with MME drivers that I was using before I got the interface, I was using the following without any popping or buzzing:

20.0 msec, 882 samples

The MME gave me better latency, but I thought ASIO was supposed to be better? Am I not understanding something? Should I still stick with the ASIO or go back to MME?

So I don't get it... Should I just go back to using the MME drivers, or stick with ASIO?

Neither of those values is acceptable for being the lowest you can go. So you might say MME was "better" on your machine, but something is terribly wrong if you can't get down into the 128-256 sample range with ASIO drivers, unless the project is really big.

Having to run a buffer that high suggests the PC needs tuning to lower the DPC latency or there's some other conflict that needs to be resolved.

* disable antivirus (and the internet)
* disable wireless internet radio
* disable any memory resident programs that might be polling something
* disable any webcams or TV Tuners
* run the DPC Latency checker

Don't panik. Just test em first...
You can disable internet during working in sonar can't you?

Wow vault, there is definitely a problem somewhere. I'd say you got some great advice from everyone so far, so I have nothing to add that's not been said. However, I just wanted to share this with you because I found it sort of strange.

I have a stock Dell Inspiron I'm working with this morning from my home. It's nothing close to my real recording pc's, but this thing is completely stock, has a stock soundcard, a million things running, nothing disabled, and I have no problems running Sonar at 64 samples using ASIO4ALL. This box is a first generation i3, 4 gig of RAM, Win 7 64 box. I'm running Sonar 32 bit on it at the moment. But look at this screen shot. Honest this works perfectly for me without any drop outs, clicks or pops. Granted, I can't run a ton of tracks on it like this, but there are no issues at all for basic use as well as recording with softsynths in real time. Look at how many things I have running on this box at the time of the shot.



HQ pic here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/StockDell.JPG

It's just crazy how much I have running on this thing. Even Norton Security Suite...which is known to be a total resource hog.

but you don't need antivirus or internet WHILE you're recording or mixing.  disable those things while you're working in sonar.  I didn't mean you needed to disable them permanently.
 
FWIW I have my computer connected to the internet all the time, even during recording and mixing.  but I don't have DPC spikes like you do.  Thomas' suggestion of changing your AV might work, too.
I use MS Essentials and have not had a problem out of it.

It has always been my understanding that the ASIO drivers are supposed to be the optimum ones for working with Audio especially if the interface support them as the M-Audio does. 


That would indicate to me, that something else is causing the crackles and pops.  More than likely it is a settings issue, but the other TSR stuff that runs continually in the back ground could very well be the problem. There are only a limited number of CPU cycles available and if the TSR's get priority, the audio will suffer. 

Disconnect from the net and shut off everything that is not needed. Others have listed that stuff. 

There is no reason why the DAW should not run properly with ASIO on the computer you have. 

I'm running an i5 chip with XP32. 

I'm also not up to speed on the entire W7/64  running X164 either. Is it possible there is some sort of issue with the 64bit stuff not working together properly? 

Heck, I used to run my DAW on a stock DELL laptop with Vista32 as the OS..... and......with the internet connected and ON, as well as the wireless Wi-Fi running and ALL the other stuff like AV running and my latency on that computer and interface was about 8ms which is low enough that I could not hear it. 

Hope you get this figured out because yeah, I do know how irritating it is to have latency over 15ms. When I first started the lappy and installed the DAW ....latency was pretty high, but working on it, adjusting settings, got it under control. 

I only have one computer (this laptop) that I use for everything, and music making is just one of the things I use it for. However, I would like to get the sample rate down to 128 if possible, which I think it is for a system like mine.

After reading all of the responses, I still don't see a lot I can do to reduce my DPC latency. I currently have AVG Free Antivirus installed, so I can switch to Avast to see if it makes a difference. I have tried connecting my interface to all the different USB porst on my laptop, and I get the same result with all the ports. I do have the latest M-Audio drivers installed, and I set my Sonar to always run as adminstrator. Also, I DO use my internet even while mixing/recording, so I need to be connected to the internet at all times.

One thing that I will try is the following:

thomasabarnes

Other things to disable are BIOS settings such as HPET, and power management options in the BIOS. Disabling these things will decrease your DPC latency. Low DPC Latency contributes to SONAR running stable and performing good. You have to decide if that's something you want or not, (SONAR running at low latency settings without dropouts, pops, clicks, and trash like that.) 

However, I'm not sure how. Is there an option somewhere to "disable HPET" and "disable power management" for BIOS? If so, I can try to google the instructions for it. Would I be risking anything by making those changes to my BIOS?

Alright. So I really couldn't think of anything that could contribute to DPC latency since I have AVG Free Antivirus (which, according to Lance, should be fine), so I decided to disable my wireless driver and check it again. Afterwards, my DPC latency was in the green all the way - peaked to yellow exactly once, but other than that was in the green in the 100-200 usec range the entire time.

I opened up X1 to try it out, and again, 128 samples is impossible - complete crackling and buzzing. I went up to 256, and still some buzzing every here and there... so basically, the same results as before. Thus, I'm convinced that DPC is not the culprit.

Anything else that could be causing the latency problems? I would love to get down to 128 samples if possible... Thanks in advance.

brundlefly

It may not be the sole problem now, but you will definitely need to keep it in the green to avoid problems once you get other issues resolved. And it's the variability that gets you; if you're still seeing spikes, you need to get to the bottom of that even if they're not into the red.

So you're saying, in an ideal setup, there would not be ANY spikes at all? And the DPC latency should be in the green at all times?

Well now I'm in a situation where I don't know what I can do to lower my sample rate. Still, the lowest I can go is 1024. I would like 128.

I've tried disabling my network adapters to reduce my DPC latency, but what else can I do? Even after disabling them, I still get yellow (and sometimes even red) peaks. I have the latest drivers installed, and everything should be working fine. Now I'm stuck and I don't know what more to do. With a system like what I have (Win7, i5, 8gb ram) I should be able to get down to 128 samples, no?

ampfixer


Have you disabled the onboard sound chip? There has to be something running that is fighting for resources and memory. This is all sounding like a resource conflict to me. If you can get your hands on an external powered USB hub that would rule out power sag on the USB.

Get a program like CCleaner and look at all the startup and TRS programs. I run this program daily and it really helps keep the system in shape. Also go into windows and check for problem devices and shared IRQ/DMA.

When the problems are as large as you describe there's usually a fairly simple solution.

I have the following under "sounds" in my Device Manager:


M-Audio Fast Track
NVIDIA High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio
Realtek High Definition Audio

I have no idea why there are 4 "nvidia" ones... should I disable everything except the M-audio?

ampfixer


Yes. The nvidia audio is likely there for support of HDMI output which is both audio and videao. The realtek will be your onboard sound chip. Once they are all disabled re-boot and ensure they are shut off. You should disable the wi-fi while you are in Sonar mode since you have already proven that it causes trouble.

I think you're getting close, good luck!

Should I disable the NVIDIA ones too, or just the realtek?

Disable the NVIDIA for sure. Realtek = trouble, every time I've had to deal with one. You may have to play with the settings on the realtek. There are several versions of it out there. Of course select the M-Audio as your in/out. With the NVIDIA probably associated with your display-graphics software, you may have to change settings on that also if you are using the HDMI drivers.