Crg
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/24 18:51:25
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In fact Cubase seems to be the only respectable surround DAW in the windows market today. Yeah right, I was waiting for the other DAW commercial and there it is. Have a nice day.
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keith
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/24 22:23:42
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three_eyed_otter
Does anybody remember the Baker's purchasing the wrapper? They basically had a choice between the 2 market contenders (Fxpansion & Directxer). I believe they purchased Fxpansion's & then bundled the wrapper w/Sonar 3. Then the outcry came for the wrapper not to be an add-on & poof it disappeared into the Sonar code--like so many other extensions/add-ons to the Sonar code.
For the record, as of SONAR 5, VST support is entirely native -- no DX wrapping. I believe in SONAR 4 they did embed the VST wrapper into SONAR, so the wrapper was not a seperate thing. But as of SONAR 5 it scans and loads VSTs natively, at the DLL level, just like any other "native" VST host. No DX wrapper stubs (easy to verify if you know your way around the registry).
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Jonbouy
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/24 23:14:37
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The main issue for me is surround support. I'll will never buy sonar because of this.
Hang on a minute. I'll never buy it? So how can you be installing and uninstalling different VST's and even as mentioned below, the application itself?
uninstall sonar, reinstall, rescann all: ghost entries are still here. so even the uninstaller is unable to cleanup the
entries created by the VST wrapper. shame on you. 400$ for this ?
You're complaining about a demo version that doesn't exist yet or what? No matter, say what you like, I won't be buying it either...  I feel all used now...
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/01/24 23:16:11
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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three_eyed_otter
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/24 23:39:17
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keith
three_eyed_otter
Does anybody remember the Baker's purchasing the wrapper? They basically had a choice between the 2 market contenders (Fxpansion & Directxer). I believe they purchased Fxpansion's & then bundled the wrapper w/Sonar 3. Then the outcry came for the wrapper not to be an add-on & poof it disappeared into the Sonar code--like so many other extensions/add-ons to the Sonar code.
For the record, as of SONAR 5, VST support is entirely native -- no DX wrapping. I believe in SONAR 4 they did embed the VST wrapper into SONAR, so the wrapper was not a seperate thing. But as of SONAR 5 it scans and loads VSTs natively, at the DLL level, just like any other "native" VST host. No DX wrapper stubs (easy to verify if you know your way around the registry).
Hmmm...IIRC not all DAWS need to use the registry, but I'll go w/what say about SOnAR. It is now a native VST host.
I remember Sonar 5. I was 1 of the lucky fw-1884 owners to have Sonar turn my interface into a brick. Not literally, but quite a shame when your DAW's previous version worked w/your hardware, but the new version won't.
have a good one
3Eo
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chuckebaby
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/25 00:36:23
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i almost posted on this earlier..but i was afraid i might leave something i may regreat..i think you took advantage of johnbouy.wasted his time as he was trying to help you.he has wrote some great posts on dll's and vst's.he was giving you his time(which is valuable to some of us)to help you out,all the while your just hoping someone else looking to shop for a daw will see this post and be scared off.nice try.
post edited by chuckebaby - 2011/01/25 00:45:42
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droopy6
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/26 10:57:34
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I simply used X1 with a friend working in a professional studio and I noticed the surround issue. It's the only way I have to test products before buying one by myself. It is not a waste of time for me to bring such issue here and discuss how the sonar community live
with it.
Anyway, for the wrapper stuff, how can you explain uninstalling Sonar and reinstalling it and doing a fullrescan of my VST folder, I have a ghost entry for all plugins in a VST Shell ? (the one that I removed from my vst folder)
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chuckebaby
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/26 18:51:03
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id start with reading the manual
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droopy6
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 01:36:11
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taken from the manual:
Effects in effects bins display “ticks” that tell you whether the effect is outputting a mono, stereo, or
surround signal
Nothing about surround VST not supported. you read this, you own surround VST effects, you buy Sonar X1.
SONAR lets you use your existing stereo or mono effects as surround effects. SONAR does this
through the SurroundBridge
yup, sure, but what about surround VST effects ? they should write: "SONAR lets you ONLY use..." "for VST effects"
Mono plug-ins may not work properly when inserted in a Surround bus effect bin. A
common symptom is a Runtime error message.
wow, seriously ?
How to patch and configure surround effects
Right-click the effects bin of a surround bus and choose a mono or stereo effect from the pop-up
menu
alloooOOoow ? [like in "Hurton hears a who" trailer] did they even know "surround effect" mean effect
with more than 2 channels ?
by the way, does anybody tried surround DX effects not provided by SONAR on a surround bus ?
is it working ?
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jamescollins
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 05:41:12
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FWIW SurroundBridge is broken too - try inserting any 3rd party stereo VST on a surround buss - the problem sounds like an error in ADC to me. Either way, Sonar doesn't cut it when it comes to surround
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Jonbouy
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 05:54:13
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"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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droopy6
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 06:47:46
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I'm pretty sure, I used X1b...
>the problem sounds like an error in ADC to me
not sure to understand you.
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Jonbouy
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 06:58:23
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droopy6
I'm pretty sure, I used X1b...
>the problem sounds like an error in ADC to me
not sure to understand you.
X1b is the next due bug fix release.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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chuckebaby
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 14:05:08
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im not sure what to believe in this thread.first he said he had it..then he said a friend had it,now hes saying hes already used the x1b update..if it wasnt for all the bad mouthing and the title of this thread i might put forth more effort to help,im just not sure how to take this.i know one thing johnbouy your a good person,and this guy(if he has a true problem)is lucky to have you helping him.i will speak for myself when i say i thought he might be a plant.i might be wrong.ill just leave it at that
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Crush
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 14:35:30
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The other issue regarding VST support in general is just a red herring. let it go I disagree. Sonar is supposed to be a professional tool. Surround is a requirement for people's work. They generate an income through their soundtrack work. It's very real and the surround has to work with their very expensive plug ins. Waves is also a very expensive professional tool used in the industry and should have been tested to work as it's more expensive than Sonar X1 itself. Note: Waves work in FL studio. So does 5.1 mixing.
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tarsier
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 15:55:18
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Crush
The other issue regarding VST support in general is just a red herring. let it go
I disagree.
Sonar is supposed to be a professional tool. Surround is a requirement for people's work. They generate an income through their soundtrack work. It's very real and the surround has to work with their very expensive plug ins.
Go back and read my message, the one you're quoting. Particularly the part you conveniently left out of your quote. I agreed with what you're saying about surround support. If you want to be taken seriously, then...
post edited by tarsier - 2011/01/27 15:56:54
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droopy6
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 16:40:21
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chuckebaby
im not sure what to believe in this thread.first he said he had it..then he said a friend had it,now hes saying hes already used the x1b update..if it wasnt for all the bad mouthing and the title of this thread i might put forth more effort to help,im just not sure how to take this.i know one thing johnbouy your a good person,and this guy(if he has a true problem)is lucky to have you helping him.i will speak for myself when i say i thought he might be a plant.i might be wrong.ill just leave it at that
Sorry, it was the X1aPatch. It seems that you take more care about how I tried sonar than how sonar handle surround. I never said I bought it. And beleive me I will never buy this stuff. because it is a "stuff", this is not a professional DAW as a professional can expect. That's okay for stereo mix, may be, may be not. Anyway, too much things are wrong for my point of view. I'm always take a look at other DAW like Sonar to see how they update year after year. that's all. I never thought calling help in this thread. It's only a post to expose a MAJOR issue for surround lovers like me. If you take the whole picture we have a DAW proud of doing surround sound, and if you don't care, you can buy it and getting completly stucked with all your surround VST pluggins. It's really bad. may be not so far to be a scam in my point of view.
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chuckebaby
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 19:12:30
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droopy6
I simply used X1 with a friend working in a professional studio and I noticed the surround issue. It's the only way I have to test products before buying one by myself. It is not a waste of time for me to bring such issue here and discuss how the sonar community live
with it.
Anyway, for the wrapper stuff, how can you explain uninstalling Sonar and reinstalling it and doing a fullrescan of my VST folder, I have a ghost entry for all plugins in a VST Shell ? (the one that I removed from my vst folder)
see you could have fooled me because here it sounds like you used it in a studio(with your friend) to test it out..before you buy it..so in other words..you tested it out ...in a studio..found out it doesnt support suround vst's and still bought it...now you want to complain you got ripped off..sorry im not buying it,in your other post you say"in fact cubebase seems to be the only respectable daw in the market today."your in here asking for help from a product that your being very ignorant to,that alot of people respect..now does it suk that suround vst's are not suppoted...yes it does..does it ruin x1 enough to the point were you would take it as far to say "how dare you?"..not sure..???..but if i read correctly you tryed it out with a friend if you found out it didnt support you suround vst's...why did you buy it?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 20:06:32
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Surround VST support is something we plan on doing in the future. At the time SONAR added surround support there were precious few VST plugins that did surround so the primary way to do surround effects was using DX plugins. We haven't updated our surround support in a big way other than for maintenance in the past but future versions may see enhancements in this area. Oh and this has absolutely nothing to do with VST wrapping. SONAR hasnt used a VST wrapper since SONAR 4 or 5 if I remember right. Class ID's in the registry are exclusively used for unique identification of plugins, a scheme we retained for compatibility with earlier projects thats all.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2011/01/27 20:10:15
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jamescollins
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 20:22:03
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Noel, I can't tell you how happy I am that you are planning on revamping surround features in Sonar! I just hope it's soon! Could you fix SurroundBridge as well as giving Sonar multi I/O VST support?
Not being funny, but I really think this needs to be addressed before the Presonus guys add surround functions to S1...
Again, this is just brilliant news, thank you for sharing!
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 20:25:26
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Surround bridge should be working for VST's. If not its a bug and we'll look into it.
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jamescollins
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/27 20:29:47
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
Surround bridge should be working for VST's. If not its a bug and we'll look into it.
If you insert any 3rd party stereo VST on a surround buss, it starts off playing fine, but then develops a kind of echo as time goes on, getting worse and worse. I'm pretty sure I filed a bug report, I'll double check...I have discussed this with one or two other forum members who were experiencing the same behaviour, so hopefully you'll be able to reproduce the problem.
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droopy6
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 04:48:59
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see you could have fooled me because here it sounds like you used it in a studio(with your friend)
How my god, are you insane ? this is so simple to understand: The studio where my friend work bought it ! He doesn't do surround at all but may be interested for future clients. So I help him to take a look on it and I saw how faulty is Sonar surround support. That's all. Again, why spending your time with this points instead of talking REAL things: sonar surround support is very bad since years.
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 08:09:21
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droopy6
see you could have fooled me because here it sounds like you used it in a studio(with your friend)
How my god, are you insane ? this is so simple to understand: The studio where my friend work bought it ! He doesn't do surround at all
but may be interested for future clients. So I help him to take a look on it and I saw how faulty is Sonar surround support. That's all.
Again, why spending your time with this points instead of talking REAL things: sonar surround support is very bad since years.
Frankly, "SONAR surround support is very bad since years" is not entirely true. As Noel explained earlier in this thread, we've had our own surround implementation for a number of years now. When we implemented surround way back in SONAR 5 (2005) there were just a small handful of true Surround VSTs available. Back then you could argue that our implementation of surround was pretty cutting edge, what with Surround Bridge and all (being able to use stereo plugins in a surround bus). Since then, however, Surround VST as a plugin format has really taken off, but we haven't yet updated SONAR to meet the needs of those using Surround VST plugins. So yes, SONAR's surround implementation could certainly use some work, but it's not like we've never had good surround in SONAR. Like I said before, I would argue that we once did have very good surround support in SONAR and it has only been very recently, with the explosion of the Surround VST format, that we have fallen behind in that feature. And as Noel said, adding Surround VST support is something we are seriously looking at and considering for a future version of SONAR. To wrap up, and with all due respect, I think it's quite audacious of you to title your thread, "How dare you". Such a title comes across as accusatory, as if we deliberately did something personally wrong to you. Quite frankly, it's only a phrase I would expect to hear from a violently angry girlfriend or family member, and not something I would ever use as a title for a post in a public forum unless said forum was about child abuse, criminal offenses, spousal cheating, or some other topic of such a serious nature. However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since it appears that English is not your native language. Please use your best judgment and change the title of this thread to something more suitable. If you can't figure something out in a day or so I'll go ahead and change it for you, so just a friendly heads up on that.  
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John T
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 08:32:42
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droopy6
see you could have fooled me because here it sounds like you used it in a studio(with your friend)
How my god, are you insane ? this is so simple to understand: The studio where my friend work bought it ! He doesn't do surround at all
but may be interested for future clients. So I help him to take a look on it and I saw how faulty is Sonar surround support. That's all.
Again, why spending your time with this points instead of talking REAL things: sonar surround support is very bad since years.
Your friend works at BitTorrent?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 11:40:43
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If you insert any 3rd party stereo VST on a surround buss, it starts off playing fine, but then develops a kind of echo as time goes on, getting worse and worse. I'm pretty sure I filed a bug report, I'll double check...I have discussed this with one or two other forum members who were experiencing the same behaviour, so hopefully you'll be able to reproduce the problem. I just tried this with a random 3'rd party VST and didn't notice any obvious problems. Can you specify which plugin you testing this with? I also tried it with our own VST's - TubeLeveller, LP64 EQ etc and didn't see any such anomalies. Also are you running the 64 bit version of SONAR with a 32 bit VST? Keep in mind with bitbridged plugins to get at the surround bridge UI you have to hold down shift while opening the plugin to get at the surround bridge UI.
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droopy6
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 12:31:38
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something I would ever use as a title for a post in a public forum unless said forum was about child abuse, criminal offenses, spousal cheating, or some other topic of such a serious nature. ROFL, I like your style Seth Perlstein, please respect mine. I was very upset when I posted it, but I wasn't anymore.
I like the way you defend sonar. but this kind of stuff should be precisly written in the manual. especially theses days where surround sound is a common stuff. so "how dare you", fit perfectly for me. @John don't be trollish.
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Brando
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 13:08:57
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droopy6
I was very upset when I posted it, but I wasn't anymore.
Very upset over a product you acknowledge you don't even own, after trialing the product at a friend's who you acknowledge doesn't need the feature you were very upset about? Yeah.............that could..... happen..............No hidden agendas here..............move on...nothing to see.........
post edited by Brando - 2011/01/28 13:10:16
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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chuckebaby
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 14:29:00
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droopy6
see you could have fooled me because here it sounds like you used it in a studio(with your friend)
How my god, are you insane ? this is so simple to understand: The studio where my friend work bought it ! He doesn't do surround at all
but may be interested for future clients. So I help him to take a look on it and I saw how faulty is Sonar surround support. That's all.
Again, why spending your time with this points instead of talking REAL things: sonar surround support is very bad since years.
i could be wrong but i thought sonar was one of the first to use vst suround..so for many years i dont think so..your taking pot shots at sonar rather than getting to your issues.im moving on now,good luck with your problem(seriously)
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droopy6
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 14:55:38
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>i could be wrong but i thought sonar was one of the first to use vst suround. you are.  >good luck with your problem(seriously) I dont have any problem know I know cubase is the only choice for surround VST effects.
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Re:How dare you [about surround vst fx]
2011/01/28 16:35:07
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Thread title changed. Please continue the discussion in a rational and reasonable manner.
BTW, Droopy, is your avatar a picture of you or is that Michael Ironside?
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