Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 20:13:30
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I agree the word "dead" is a little drastic. But if you'll search the XLN website and the internet in general, you can no longer buy kits for AD1 and the way I understand it is the new kits for AD2 will not work in AD1. So if I didn't buy the kits I would have liked to have they are no longer available! Unless I upgrade to AD2 I can't get any kits. So, I'm stuck now with AD 1 and can't add any new kits. That is what I feel uncomfortable about. It really is not a big deal as I said before. I have gone back to my laptop I use for live performance and now I'm spending a lot of time and energy back tracking and replacing AD1 with Superior. I would rather learn to tolerate a little longer load time and have the variety of drum kits. My issue is I play so many different styles of music in my sets that I have to have a wide variety of kits to match the style. I also play a lot of corporate gigs, weddings, partys, etc. so I have everything from country to smooth jazz. One kit just will not suffice for the songs to sound as authentic as possible. The load time is not an issue in the studio but it is a major issue when you're trying to keep people on the dance floor when they're in a partying mood. Just that extra 10 or 20 seconds can make all the difference. I don't mean to come across as angry about this as it may seem. You know how it is with e-mails and posting. Sometimes it's hard to tell the persons attitude. I do still think that 75 dollars is rather steep for such a short time to have used AD1.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 20:18:03
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BTW, Bent! Thanks for the nice gesture about reading my posts. I try to help as much as possible. As syrupy as it sounds I really love this forum. The people here are probably the best you'll find around. I always try to give back because the people in this forum have been so good to me and I have learned so much from them.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 20:23:01
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Sorry, Bent. That was Craig that gave the kind response. At any rate, Thanks, Craig. I highly respect you. I used to read your articles in Guitar Player magazine back in the day. Your posts and webinars are truly among the best I've ever seen. Thanks. again, my friend!
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Guitarpima
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 20:42:36
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Your incorrect Sidroe. You do not have to upgrade to AD2. You can download their free version and buy only the AD Paks you want. The upgrade comes with a few kits. I don't know if the deal is still valid but the Fairfax AD Pak is $89 by itself. If you upgrade to AD2 and get the Fairfax, it's $99 assuming the offer is still valid. That's a nice option but I don't know how it works if you have AD1 paks and want to upgrade those using the AD2 free version. If you have more than one add on pak, that alone makes upgrading worth it as the paks upgrade when you upgrade. It's all part of upgrading the upgrade of those you wish to upgrade when it comes to an upgrade. ;-) (I know. A poor attempt at humor.)
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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dwardzala
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 21:07:50
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My understanding is that if you upgrade to AD2, you get your existing packs upgraded without having to re-buy them.
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Anderton
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 21:41:15
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Sidroe Sorry, Bent. That was Craig that gave the kind response. At any rate, Thanks, Craig. I highly respect you. I used to read your articles in Guitar Player magazine back in the day. Your posts and webinars are truly among the best I've ever seen. Thanks. again, my friend!
Actually it WAS Bent, but I like your posts too! And I agree this forum is amazing. When you compare it to what else is happening on the web, it's almost like this is some kind of Land That Time Forgot, where people still open doors for each other and help passers-by fix flat tires. Sort of like Oklahoma, I guess.
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Featherlight
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 21:43:31
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Guitarpima, When you say it sounds better than AD1, just curious what you mean by that. I love AD1 and the AD PAKS so Im curious to hear the comparison of the two.
http://www.featherlightstudio.com/studio Computer: Intel i7 Quad, Intel P7P55D mobo, 16gig Corsair, Nvidia 8600gs Fanless OS: Windows 7 Professional 64 bit ----------------------------------------------------- Computer: Mac Mini i7 Quad Core Server, Intel mobo, 16 gig DDR3, 2-USB3 Audio Drvs, Mavericks ----------------------------------------------------- Audio Interface: Mackie 1640i Firewire Mixer on a 1394 400 TI Chip Peripherals: 3 UAD-1 PCie, Ilok 2, MIDI'd Yamaha Motif xs,
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Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 23:11:50
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Guitarpima, are you saying I can download the free AD2 version and play my AD1 kits in it? I downloaded it and it was a completely separate program from AD1 and the only kit pieces I could find in there were the demo version of Fairfax. If I can still play my AD1 kits in AD2, why would they charge me 75 dollars to upgrade? I understand what you are saying about the choice is mine to upgrade or not. I thought I would have more time to buy the kits I wanted before the upgrade came along. It's just frustrating to see the Sonar bundles now including AD2 for upgrading to Producer when a lot of us buy Producer right out of the gate everytime. Now we stand on the sidelines while the new guys are getting thrown a bone and the rest of us are standing around trying to figure out where we can get the money to upgrade. LOL!
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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bayoubill
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 23:22:35
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I upgraded to AD2 and got the upgrades for all I had in AD1 free. I wish I had to money for Fairfax. The demo sounds very nice. I like AD2 cuz it gives more choices on an already great sounding soft synth. Different engine and takes more CPU than AD1.
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gkephart
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/21 23:26:41
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Hey, I agree too- I was pretty upset with XLN Audio since I've only recently started using what was "free" with my Sonar upgrade in October or November. I let my thoughts be known to the XLN support staff (though they aren't the ones that make the marketing decisions). I'm sure the reason XLN was bundled with Sonar X3, is that they knew they were coming up with a new version, and what better way to get users familiar with their product? I'm sure Cake and XLN saw it as a win-win, business-wise. As for the upgrade there are just barely enough features that justify it (much like every Sonar or NI or fill-in-the blank software company upgrade), though I felt that several of the features were worth it, so I finally did it today after much gnashing of teeth. With the additional AD pack I had wanted anyway for only another $20, I made the decision to just get over it. The update of my existing 3 or 4 AD packs was seamless, and it still retains the lightning fast loading. Does it sound better? I don't know- I haven't really A/B'd yet, but it sounds really good to my ear. I DID read that XLN would continue to sell AD packs for v1 through the end of the year- I think that was on their site somewhere, and perhaps they'll even have a blowout sale at some point? A very interesting discussion, and lots of great comments- thanks to everyone for the perspective! -Gary
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Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 06:33:24
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I noticed bayoubill commented that AD2 is more CPU hungry than AD1. Depending on how hungry could be a deal breaker for me as well. I may come off of the fence and cough up the money in the long run. I just had to grumble for a while about digging in my wallet again. The wife wouldn't be too happy about that either. Hee-hee! This has been a great thread and I think we all learned a lot about XLN. Funny how upgrades can be great advertising on their own.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Guitarpima
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 07:35:07
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I said I didn't know if AD1 paks would work with the free version of AD2, though It seems unlikely. If you upgrade, AD1 paks are upgraded to AD2. It seems that the Retro Pak has been divided up into several other Paks though. I think AD2 sounds much better. IMO, it has more depth and AD1 sound thinner. I may not get it close to done until Monday or so but I'm working on upgrading a project to AD2. I have a project using the Brushes AD Pak and I'm looking forward to updating that to AD2.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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chulaivet1966
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 09:17:12
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bayoubillI upgraded to AD2 and got the upgrades for all I had in AD1 free. I wish I had to money for Fairfax. The demo sounds very nice. I like AD2 cuz it gives more choices on an already great sounding soft synth. Different engine and takes more CPU than AD1. BOLD: me too.... I've been trying to get familiar with the AD1 free with X3 also and (somehow) got through the AD2 online installer process. I like AD1's kits and although AD1 works just fine with little to no latency AD2 is a different story. While trying AD2 there is a weird sort of latency and the patches have this fuzzy, unclear sound. It's hard to explain but AD1 does not exhibit this at all....I'm baffled by the AD2 behavior. Now that I think about it I am using the Delta44 ASIO drivers (up to date according to device manager) rather than ASIOFORALL which could also be factor. Don't know if the comment about the CPU demands are the cause or not as mentioned by another poster. Admittedly, my system is a less than ideal but X3 works well given my work flow and the fact I'm not a power user like many here. I know I'll have to upgrade the DAW eventually as it's only a very meager (8 year old) Sempron 2800+ 1.6ghz w/2 gig memory from the Sonar 5.0 days. A good day to all....
post edited by Quazelar - 2014/05/22 10:42:25
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 10:09:07
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2014/05/22 10:12:31
I gotta share a trick I figured out with Addictive Drums that I really like. If you do hybrid orchestral stuff.... grab one of the midi, tom tom heavy songs from AD, swap out the AD Snare and Toms with big Orch toms from a Orch library like Albion or 8dio. Do this how ever you'd like (copy and paste, or drum map) and viola! You have yourself a great perc track much like Damage or Storm Drums. Albion has a metals percussion patch that I can either swap or blend with the AD cymbals. If you are doing music library stuff you have got to try this,
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Anderton
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 11:20:07
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gkephart As for the upgrade there are just barely enough features that justify it (much like every Sonar or NI or fill-in-the blank software company upgrade)...
I think Sonar does pretty significant upgrades, actually. The X3 upgrade gave Melodyne integration with Melodyne Essential, seriously reworked comping, VST3 support (I can run PadShop Pro now), much better video handling, and the QuadCurve flyout with spectrum analyzer. Given that Melodyne Essential alone is $100, getting all that other stuff for $50 is a pretty good deal...in some ways I think the comping alone almost justifies that. But then you throw in Addictive Drums, the Blue Tubes effects, and all the other enhancements, and I think there was a lot to justify the $150.
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Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 16:54:08
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UNBELIEVABLE! My birthday is tomorrow. My wife informs me to check my XLN account. SHE BOUGHT THE UPGRADE FOR MY BIRTHDAY PRESENT! She's been snooping around and heard all the hubbub going on about the forum thread and figured that it would be a good present. Well, I guess I'll have to shut up now. Maybe that was what she wanted. I can't help but wonder what this is gonna cost me for her birthday.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Guitarpima
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 17:53:30
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I thought I would be exited about being able to us both the main outputs as well as the individual. It doesn't sound right or, I need to tweak some more.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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BENT
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 18:57:12
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I have empirical evidence this is true... (Bender told me!) Cakewalk by BandLab, Splat and other DAW's PC = Win 10 64 Bit, i7 3770, 16Gb RAM, 256GB Samsung 2.5’ 840 PRO SATA6GB/s SSD 1, and 2 x 2Tb Internal, Monitors = 2 24” Samsung SA450 and 1 20” Dele Edirol = Octa-Capture-UA1010, Quad-Capture-UA55, PCR-500, Berringer 2 x FBC 1010 Alesis Control Pad KRK monitors
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Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 19:57:34
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Well, I downloaded the infamous AD2 upgrade. After a couple of hours of downloads and playing around the verdict is in. Great upgrade. Like all the beat features but like I said before, I write my own so that won't help me much but it's nice to have it. Sound quality somewhat improved but not a HUGE difference. I do like the Studio kits. They sound pretty good. First negative! This thing is CPU hungry. Even on my i7 this thing is sucking power. Superior doesn't even break a sweat in the same project. I substituted AD2 in it's place and my first core shot sky high and bounced around in the red! I guess it's a good thing I spent the last week pulling Superior in to my performance tracks. I will try raising my buffers to see if it will play nicer but I am concerned about having higher latency when trying to record. Overall, I'm fairly pleased with AD2 and I can see where I will continue to use AD1 and AD2. Lastly, I still think the price was a little steep. I do have to keep reminding myself that I got AD1 for free. I guess it's just fair to have paid for the upgrade. I thank my lovely wife for a very, very shocking surprise for my birthday. I thank my lucky stars I have her.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Sidroe
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 19:59:33
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BTW, Thanks BENT! I really do appreciate the thought. I honestly got a kick out of the video. I downloaded it and will pull it out for birthdays from now on. THANKS, my friend!!!
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Geo524
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/22 23:32:17
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Anderton
gkephart As for the upgrade there are just barely enough features that justify it (much like every Sonar or NI or fill-in-the blank software company upgrade)...
I think Sonar does pretty significant upgrades, actually. The X3 upgrade gave Melodyne integration with Melodyne Essential, seriously reworked comping, VST3 support (I can run PadShop Pro now), much better video handling, and the QuadCurve flyout with spectrum analyzer. Given that Melodyne Essential alone is $100, getting all that other stuff for $50 is a pretty good deal...in some ways I think the comping alone almost justifies that. But then you throw in Addictive Drums, the Blue Tubes effects, and all the other enhancements, and I think there was a lot to justify the $150.
+1000
Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" MonitorsMusic and SFX http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite
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Totah
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/27 18:51:11
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XLN AD2 is a great upgrade for $99.00. Use SSD4 Also, both have great features and sound very good. Remember buying my first drum machine , a DMX for 2200.00, RX5 for 850.00 It is amusing to hear anyone on this forum crying about spending $100 for this sound and function. All of these products are at bargain basement prices when I put it into perspective and remember saving for months to buy a couple of Symetrix Compessors for $300 per unit. I am one happy camper when it comes to owning any of these products at these prices. Don't know how they do it and still make money. Totah I7 Perfect DAW 4770 16 gig ram 512 SSD 2-TB Drives, Liquid Cooled UR824 Steinberg X3
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MANTRASKY
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/27 19:38:30
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Hello AD users, Today I received an email from XLN stating that there are "Bugs" in AD2, that there design programmers are working to correct the issues. They didn't mention what type of bugs, other than to address a couple that I'm having like the CPU usage and extending the bars (overlapping causing volume increase). They told me that there technical center has been flooded with issues since the release of AD2 and should soon release a "patch" to correct them. I'm not sure if customers are notified through Cakewalk or your personal email, I just thought as an FYI for those that are currently experiencing anything they were not experiencing from the original version. Mike.
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chulaivet1966
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/27 19:50:37
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MANTRASKYToday I received an email from XLN stating that there are "Bugs" in AD2. They told me that there technical center has been flooded with issues since the release of AD2 and should soon release a "patch" to correct them. I'm not sure if customers are notified through Cakewalk or your personal email, I just thought as an FYI for those that are currently experiencing anything they were not experiencing from the original version. Interesting... I thought I was the only one having issues with AD2. (post #43) On Friday I sent an email to them regarding my issues and the auto-response was noting only a huge amount of support inquires. I've not gotten a response yet but I really don't expect one any time soon. I'd guess their 'support' plate is full if the above is the case. This is no show-stopper for me but I did want to work with it and incorporate AD2 into my writing as I get familiar with it. Carry on....
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stevec
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/29 13:04:00
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Did the 2.01 update help any? I wasn't really have much in the way of issues with AD2 from the start so I'm probably not a good gauge for how the update fairs. But I sure am liking the new kits.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Guitarpima
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/29 13:59:36
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I can now use the individual outputs. I could not before the update.
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stevec
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/30 00:43:03
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That is certainly an improvement!
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chulaivet1966
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/30 12:00:58
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stevecDid the 2.01 update help any? In case this helps others.... I just installed/tested the online update and no change. I did get a response from XLN yesterday and responded to them this morning with my test results which was: "Still unacceptable latency/timing issues, distorted sounds/patches when triggering with my keyboard controller and after dragging a patch to a track. Incidentally, the 'play' button at bottom right next to the 'record' button can't really be seen unless one just guesses that something is there and 'clicks'. AD1 still works as expected. I just thought you ought to know. Hope that helps....thanks again." A great weekend to all...
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Greeny1321
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/30 13:32:45
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It feels like a slap in the face that you didn't get something you didn't buy? Why? people who get the AD2 included dont get the AD1 kits, so its about fair I say. You bought sonar when it included AD1, not when it included AD2, why should you get both? by that logic I should be mad cos I didn't get AD1 as well.
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Mesh
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Re: Addicted Drums 2
2014/05/30 13:40:42
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☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2014/05/30 14:28:04
Greeny1321 It feels like a slap in the face that you didn't get something you didn't buy? Why? people who get the AD2 included dont get the AD1 kits, so its about fair I say. You bought sonar when it included AD1, not when it included AD2, why should you get both? by that logic I should be mad cos I didn't get AD1 as well.
Yes, I believe this topic has already been covered ad nauseam. I like AD2.
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