As far as album length, be grateful most of you hate hip-hop.  For some reason, a good chunk of mainstream rappers think they are comedians and have to ad a ton of not funny skits to an album that contains 1 or 2 radio hits with a bunch of filler.  There have been a few that were mildly amusing since Prince Paul started the trend, but most are just awful.
 
I also think the decline of the album is a case of the music industry outsmarting itself.  I worked closely with a number of labels around the time the shift towards single based marketing started and I can tell you album decline was not the master plan.  I genuinely believe the hope was that pushing singles so strongly would reult in stronger album sales.  Instead it resulted in quicker album sales based off the single, but the drop is a lot steeper.

Moshkiae
all you guys are thinking is pop music!
 
THERE IS MORE MUSIC OUT THERE!

Mosh...
 
 
The constant lecturing of people is kind of getting old, man. 
 
Almost every time you post, it's to put down people's musical preferences, based on assumptions.
 
I started this thread. I told you in a different thread (where you once more tried to lecture me for other reasons) that I've actually studied classical music. I LOVE classical music. Many folks here do too, I'm sure - we're musicians.
 
You could have made your point without accusing people and "screaming" at them (because classical music indeed benefits from the CD format indeed).
 
It's sad that your delivery style and constant attacks on people actually get in the way of some totally valid points - though often in the wrong context anyway. 
 
For example, in this case, no one was saying that the additional play time brought by the CD was inherently bad. Just that pop albums were better kept short. But you once again decided to twist that around and interpret it so that you could lecture us.
 
Really man, you're among pals. No one comes here to be lectured. 

 

Moshkiae
Hi,
 
It's so weird, that just because someone disagrees it is considered a "put down".
 
I'm not putting anyone down, just making a comment that the LP had its upside (rock music) and its down side (classical music), but the only really valid point you can make is that you have to defend your pop music and not the whole spectrum of music.
 
And I get told that I'm short sighted!
 
I don't write to say ... you are stupid, and you don't know music! That's insane, bizarre and off its rocker and mark by then thousand million years, and I still have 2k LP's in my collection!
 
No one sits here and says Steinbeck is a jerk, or Hemingway is a wuss, or Hesse is an idiot, or that Shakespeare is an opinionated son of a lurch, or that Milton sux ideas, or that .... stop giving me excuses about attitude ... and totally IGNORE the meat of the subject!
 
I know you all love the music, but no one, including you, could wonder ... ohh wow ... 9 symphonies and they all the same ... hmmmm ... because you haven't heard any of them except a little piece here and there to know what I would be talking about! So, just suck it up man ... you got homework to do and I got some more softness to learn, but you coming along telling me that your rock music is more important than anything else because of a song, is a bit old, and tired!
 
Sorry if you think this is about attitude. It's not! It's about the subject, that you ignored on purpose, becuase you thought it hit you somewhere else ... now why the fudge would I even bother having to kick you in the butt? Childish?

Mosh - you don't disagree you LECTURE people. All the time. As I said, it may be your delivery style, but you're doing it again in this reply.
 
The subject of this message was in the article posted by me in the OP - Pop music album sales drop. The rest is all in your head.
 
And YOU ARE attacking people, all the time. 
 
Telling me that I got homework to do, to just suck it up, telling us that "all we think about is pop", yelling (that's what CAP LOCK is, in case you didn't know that THERE IS MORE MUSIC OUT THERE)...
 
Ripping on The Clash when someone mention them, ripping on my choice of songs when I bought my SG (completely missing the point)...
 
It's not softness that you miss bro - it's social skills. I don't mind a heated exchange, far from it. 
 
Never anywhere did I say that rock music was important. But if I talk about rock music, then that's the topic - and if you barge into the discussion and start accusing people of only thinking of rock, then you're not welcome and you'll be told so.
 
If I could, I would suggest you drop literature and music for a while and spend some time working on your social skills and reading about netiquette.
 
Just consider the number of time you've been told in recent threads that people didn't understand a thing you were saying... As clever as you like to think you are, you have a severe issue w/ communication Mosh. 
 
Ironically so, considering that both literature and music are communication forms.

 
Pedro, why is it, that just because somebody listens to music that you don't like (or more accurately - don't approve of - for whatever reasons), you feel the need to try and ridicule them?
 
For someone who obviously listens to a wide and eclectic variety of music, you obviously seem to miss the point of it sometimes - actually listening to stuff because it sounds good. Instead, your first instinct seems to be to want to categorise it somehow, and crucially not in a musical way, but by all-encompassing genre-specific terms, often dismissing them on very loose and highly subjective terms, such as: Pop=too commercial; Clash=media hyped; etc.
 
You're opinions are valid, but I just don't understand the constant insinuations that the music you listen to is somehow superior to stuff others enjoy. It actually makes you sound like a bit of a music 'snob', and your attitude means you come across as a bit of a tool.
 
And seeing that you obviously think that you've hit on a bit of a raw nerve with your on-going disparagement of The Clash, let's see if we can get to the bottom of all this. In a previous post, I was half-joking about not bothering to reply to your "media-friendly" jibe, I honestly thought you were just trying to wind me up.
 
So what do you really know about The Clash? And not the stuff you can read online, but what do you really know about their history, their formation, their eventual demise, and their relationship with the media?
 
And although it might seem like a bit of a irrelevance to you, what do you really think of their music? How many Clash albums have you listened to? And listened to often enough to form genuine musical/lyrical/production etc opinions about?
 
I may be wrong, but to me you seem like a bit of a 'McCue' character on the sly. You love to sound like the big "I am" expert when you're discussing things and talking down to others, but unfortunately, every now and again your bullsh!t, and your lazy Google 'research' just doesn't cut the mustard when you inadvertently stumble upon someone who really knows about the subject at hand. Then you start scrambling around and talking in a very non-specific fashion, backtracking and trying to escape with as much of your worthless reputation intact as you can.
 
So come on, let's have a proper discussion about The Clash. And I'm happy for you to discuss anything relating to the band, the personnel, the management. Whatever. Let's go.
 
Sh1t, I've even got books written by members of their road crew for fecks sake.
 
Sadly I was too young in '76/'77, but a dear old mate of mine used to literally go on tour with them. He was one of the band's rather famous gang of followers/liggers that they (Joe in particular) used to sneak in to their hotel rooms and into gigs because they realised most of these die-hard fans couldn't afford to stay in hotels and buy tickets for every concert. In fact (and as an self-professed Clash expert, you'll probably already know this), the lyrics of the song Complete Control make specific mention of this latter practice:

• On the last tour my mates couldn't get in
  I'd open up the back door but they'd get run out again

 

 
 
So, although I wasn't actually 'there' like him, I have of course heard plenty of his tales of what went on behind the scenes from the horse's mouth.
 
My guess is that you've probably heard a few fleeting snippets of later-era Clash singles on the radio, and maybe also read a few column inches here and there to form your current opinion.
 
But who am I to know. You mightn't be quite so transparent and shallow as I'm led to believe...
 
So go on - try me.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Moshkiae
 
 
Maybe you should consider how you are saying things, when someone disagrees with you!
 
I'm saying something, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE AND LISTENING AND LEARNING, and you are saying that this experience is NOT VALID.
 
Well .. **** you! 

 
:)
 
Your experience is valid - I've never said the opposite. But the fact that it is valid doesn't make it universal. Shoving it in our face is rude and uncalled for. 
 
This thread isn't about almighty Pedro and his experience.
 
You think you bother me because you're calling my "bluff"? How delusional...
 
This is NOT a contest. I'm talking about things I like, or some of them. I never pretended they were the greatest on earth. Your reply was irrelevant.
 
If I were here bragging about the obscure prog bands that you like, you'd be most welcome to call me on it. But calling me on what I like? Irrelevant.
 
If you believe that your experience could benefit mankind, go start a blog. Don't bother trying to teach me stuff. I don't come here to learn what Pedro thinks is good music or how I should work on improving my musical tastes. 
 
Your experience doesn't make you any better than anyone here - not me, nor anyone else. Just get over your self or keep on posting irrelevant and inadequate replies. 
 
We all have experience, we don't NEED you to tell us what is good music and what isn't. If we wanted suggestions, we'd ask, politely.
 
No matter what you say, it doesn't change a thing. No one is forced to accept that what you believe is superior is any better than what they already like.
 
I love the way you have to tell me that I fail to see something about music and that someday I'll know... How presumptuous! 
 
I don't even listen to the Clash. Once again you don't have a clue and you're trying to lecture me based on an assumption.
 
I play a SG, but I also play a couple of Les Paul's, and a strat and a bass and keyboard and whatever I can put my hands on. 
 
So whatever esoteric subjective point it is you were trying to make about "the guitar not making you" was once again irrelevant, inadequate and a complete presumption.
 
I don't care about your experience and whether you play music or not - as a fellow forum user, all I have to go by is your attitude and your constant unsolicited lessons and bad manners. 
 
 
 
I'm not hurt or mad at you, Pedro, not even after you accused me of bluffing and told me "f*** you". I wish you no harm, but, seriously, I don't care for you and what you think - you're the only one thinking that what you have to say has any importance. To me, you're annoying, and that's all. 
 
I thought it was worth asking you to drop the attitude and join in the friendly conversation. Apparently, it was not worth it. 
 
So this is my reply AT you, not to you.

craigb
 
 
I think everyone just needs to agree to disagree.

So I should agree to disagree with that? Or I shouldn't. Or shouldn't not. :P
 
Listening to Bach's St. Matthew Passion here.
Coming up next - I don't know.
Maybe Tactical Neural Implant by Front Line Assembly.
Or Felt Mountain by Goldfrapp. 
Or Christian Death.
Or whatever.
 
Music.
 

The reason why I do not participate on forums much anymore is because yet again more asinine and loopy tit-for-tat. I thought the CH was a safe haven but unfortunately not. May I kindly suggest that from hereon you (both) relax in a whirlpool spa whilst listen to your favorite tracks, ignore each other and agree to disagree okay? If anybody comes across an offensive/insulting post(s) just simply, Report it and let the Bakers handle the loopy dough. 
 
Re: Albums - a thing of the past? 
IMO, the ongoing sad state of the economy, trade ethics and the Internet changed the music scene forever for example:
 
You have online retailers such as itunes and others all selling "Singles", but there are other aspects of the music scene that has taken a battering; areas such as Streaming. And then there are the main media groups - Nowadays, newspapers and magazines have a leaner staff yet still every day they are bombarded by hundreds of “Yo Check it Out Bro” (Parcels, Emails, Tweets and FB posts.) That said; At best, I am sure the music reviewer will skip through most Emails (though they’ll usually readily accept Emails sent by known labels and/or managers) then probably skip through most tracks and then publish their opinion (music review)! More often, if they decide to give an Independent newbie a go they probably get through the first few seconds of the first song and then start ripping their eyeballs out, at that point I think it be time for an indefinite vacation at shady pines. 

craigb
Does Shady Pines have a decent music collection and stereo?

LOL! 
I don't know! You're the expert, please share your experience! 

SongCraft
The reason why I do not participate on forums much anymore is because yet again more asinine and loopy tit-for-tat. I thought the CH was a safe haven but unfortunately not. May I kindly suggest that from hereon you (both) relax in a whirlpool spa whilst listen to your favorite tracks, ignore each other and agree to disagree okay? If anybody comes across an offensive/insulting post(s) just simply, Report it and let the Bakers handle the loopy dough. 
 

I'm sorry if that affected you Greg, seriously. I value your presence around here. 
 
The fact is that before I logged in this morning, I was going to pm Mosh and ask him if we could just agree to disagree - even if, in all honestly, I still think he's constantly rude.
 
I don't know if you've followed recent threads, but this isn't actually the first time that I and others are being lectured by him, and not the first time I've asked him to not be so judgmental.
 
Then I saw he'd written back a whole patronizing chapter and told me "F*** you!" .
 
Reporting around here seems to serve no good, unless the thread goes on for 10 pages and the TOS is broken a thousand times and lots of people report it. (Famous last words I guess. lol)
 
Therefore, if I'm insulted and continually annoyed by someone who insists in derailing threads I start, I'll stand up for myself.
 
So I am telling you Greg, if this really annoys you, report me. Because as long as Mosh lectures me, I'll talk back. And if he tells me to F*** off, I'll talk back. 
 
 

Rain
 
If you believe that your experience could benefit mankind, go start a blog.

 
Oops - too late Krist

Rain

SteveStrummerUK

Rain
 
If you believe that your experience could benefit mankind, go start a blog.

 
Oops - too late Krist

I should have known. lol
 

Pity he hasn't got a forum on there.
 
I could.... *ahem*..... 'review' his .... er ....poetry
 
 

@ Rain, I'd hate to see a yet another really good topic get derailed and locked. Therefore in this case I don't report, I much rather ignore  
 
RE: Albums a Thing of the Past? 
The other sad thing about the music scene is that most of the best 'newly released' music is hard to find; gets buried too deep beneath the hype. The majors continue to monopolize, manipulate public perception and a lot of kids lap it up. I mean duh, just because it's a cute face on the front page of a popular teen magazine means the music is great? {ahem} {diarrhea} {vomit} And it's not just Pop music to single out and complain about, other genres nowadays from Hip-Hop to Rock and Metal has it's good, not so good and awfully freaking horrible. 
 
I love all styles of music from 10,000.BC (sticks and rocks), to Classical, to all out new genres. Music purchasing is a task my wife does (for both of us) whilst I support really good independent bands, the gems buried deep beneath the hype.

 
 
 

Never heard of her - I'll check that out! Thx!

Hi,
 

Pedro, why is it, that just because somebody listens to music that you don't like (or more accurately - don't approve of - for whatever reasons), you feel the need to try and ridicule them?

 
I only know the English I know. If someone thinks they are being ridiculed, maybe they should/could look in the mirror, and find out why I would say something about something else as a COMPARISON point, that many of you folks appear to not accept.
 
The Clash is fine, but you folks are not showing that you are doing any homework, to even have any idea what I'm saying (I guess) and that is sad. No matter how much I say there is music out there, the only thing you can talk about is Phil and Garry, and Jimi, and Eric, but you (and Rain) do not appear to have given the others a FAIR listen, to find out what it is all about. Simply because it looks like they did not sell, or get as famous as The Clash, or Black Sabbath!
 
If you think that "study" is stupid, that is your choice, but I will state right now, that you are missing some living and life that is amazing and very nice, out there. But it all becomes like Germany guitarists are stupid, Norwegian guitarists are bad, Japanese guitarists aren't any good, Chinese guitarists are bizarre ... because all you can compare it to is 4 or 5 Anglo-Saxon folks, that only played one kind of music!
 
That is NOT a put down. THAT IS A REALITY! And I can't help feel, and think, that you guys don't believe it!
What I should do is give you and Rain a ticket to Spain, and spend a week in Granada so you can see how many guitar pickers you can find that will make your hair go weird and crazy. Those people are not only mixing things, they are doing things that rock music can't even conceive! But it's not important because you like this and he likes that?
 
I'm not saying, and NEVER HAVE, that you guys are not capable or good. I simply said that you might expand the ear a bit and hear something else and learn more about your instrument! Hopefully!
(From theater and film experience, this makes you better with what you already do!)
 

... Pop=too commercial; Clash=media hyped; etc. ...

Give it a break! When you start listening to a couple of "out there" things, maybe you will know the difference, and what I am saying! Doesn't mean you are not good, or very professional with what you do!
 

... You're opinions are valid, but I just don't understand the constant insinuations that the music you listen to is somehow superior to stuff others enjoy. It actually makes you sound like a bit of a music 'snob', and your attitude means you come across as a bit of a tool. ...

 
Easy! Really easy!
Rock'n'roll, pop music and the related idioms is the SIMPLEST form of music that anyone can learn and play. When you start trying to jam with Rachmaninoff or Stravinsky, let me know ... I will be there playing empty buckets to support you!
 
How much of music history have you ever studied to say that? And not realize the simplicity of rock music for the most part?
 
For me, this is why things like "Tales from Topographic Oceans", "Thick as a Brick", "A Passion Play", 666 (Aphrodite's Child's), Eruption (Focus), Karn Evil #9, and other pieces are "classical music" and do not quite fit in the rock idioms with one exception ... it's the same instruments and its electric! The intent is way out there above and beyong a HIT SONG and a HIT BAND, and specially so for the kissers in The Rolling Stone and the old Melody Maker magazines, who used to love saying things like Tangerine Dream sound like washing machine music, and that idiot OBVIOUSLY never heard a washing machine in his life to make that comparison!
 
It's unbelievable that you, a musician, would even ASK that question!
 
Now you know why so many folks in the classical music business dismiss "pop" music! It does not take as much talent and concentration as it does for the other music. But you would rather tell Mosh that he is stuck up?
 

... But who am I to know. You mightn't be quite so transparent and shallow as I'm led to believe...

 
Shallow for me is people who don't know, or believe that there are not other possibilities out there that we can imagine, foresee or even understand. The transparency of the rest is the "secret" behind one's abilities and talents.
 
IF, you want to be good, as an actor, you don't go around doing Richard Burton, or Lawrence Olivier, or Jack Nicholson, or Shirley MacLaine, or Maggie Smith, or Judy Dench! You go out, and you be YOURSELF, and you test your strenghts and weaknesses so you can get better. But here, SADLY, if we even come close to mentioning that, you guys take on the stature of the rock god on the stage, and you can't learn anything. You are the STAR! God bless your bum and cock!
 
I love you guys as much as anyone else here. I try hard to show you that there is something else out there. It's a bit sad for me, when some of you look at this and take offense, instead of going to the Internet, pulling out Rachmaninoff, Stravinsky and many other godforsaken things that Mosh mentions, and find out ... wow ... that is different ... I can't even play that on my guitar! But NO. Instead you say that Mosh has a language problem and you guys are offended.
 
I wanna tell you something offensive, that really hurt, a year ago. My dad's remains, were finally moved to Lisbon, 30plus years after he died. In a local board in Lisbon, some socialist ****er was upset that the government spent money on a writer, instead of feeding the folks that had no jobs. My sister, as well meaning as she can be, took offense to my comments, which were ... a country with no artists, writers, musicians and painters, has no soul. If you don't appreciate some of them, there is no food out there that will EVER satisfy you! My sister goes ... why do you reply and post in a board where most people are uneducated and have no idea what you are saying?
 
I tell you why Strummie ... because that is one thought, idea and concept I do not like, the upper class snobbery that our family had because of the world wide known writer published in more than 40 languages. But all you can think of, is rock music and its commercial and popular appeal. And that writer is not one of my favorites, but he is a massive inspiration to what you have to do to be more than just ... a local guitarist compared to all the other guitarists, because you yourself have no personality to do your own thing and stand up behind it! That's what it's about isn't it? The courage, strength and desire to stand up for yourself and your own work. Yes, even the Clash deserve the nod!
 
So, go ahead ... as John Lennon used to say ... working class heroes! I found that a bit offensive because I'm a worker too, but in the end, the statement was bigger than that ... it meant we didn't know any better, and were not strong enough to learn MORE and possibly BETTER.
 
I'm not about to compare the Clash to Jean Genet, or Rimbaud, or Mapplethorpe. I don't see the point. But the Clash's work does not stand up very well against a lot of writers, painters, musicians and other artists out there ... but you have to have an open mind to check that out, and not think the world is centered around your guitar and the 100 tunes that you know by heart! All you are comparing yourself to is a bunch of other guitarists, and they are not, necessarily, the best out there. Maybe you wanna try some Egberto Gismonti one day!

Moshkiae
you folks are not showing that you are doing any homework, to even have any idea what I'm saying
 

 
There it is again.
 
We don't need to 'do homework' thank you. You're not 'teacher', and we are not 'the pupils'.
 
It's the assumptions you make. The assumptions that no-one here has heard the music you have (we have), no-one here knows anything about literature (we do), no-one here appreciates classical music (we do).

Also, this baseless charge that we somehow 'defend rock and pop music' - I have never seen anyone doing that, in any thread.

You tell us every day that ''there's more music out there'' - we know there is, do you think we're all teenagers here? I could type a list of fifty musicians I could guarantee you've never heard of.

You tell us to broaden our musical horizons, and yet you trot out the same few names, every time, like it's a big secret;

Hammill, Harper, Rypdal, Gong, Amon Duul, Magma, Yes, Can, Froese, Oldfield..

I've heard them all. I own albums by some of them. Some I liked when I was 15, most I 'grew out of' to be honest, but some I still like.

If comedy is mentioned, you're straight in there with Cook and Moore, Spike Milligan, The Goons, The Bonzos - every single time, like Pavlov's Dog (yeah, I've got a couple of their CD's too, before you start). This stuff has been seen, it's been heard, endless times. We know it.

My advice - step away from your own record collection, and starting exploring, because you're right, there is 'more music out there' - but I strongly suspect, you ain't listening to it.

'Look in the mirror' you keep telling us.
 
Practice what you preach Mosh.