Hi,
 

jamesg1213 We don't need to 'do homework' thank you. You're not 'teacher', and we are not 'the pupils'.
...

 
It's not even meant to sound like a teach or pupil!
 
I was mentioning examples, but you are not allowing me to qualify my statement.
 

jamesg1213
...
It's the assumptions you make. The assumptions that no-one here has heard the music you have (we have), no-one here knows anything about literature (we do), no-one here appreciates classical music (we do).

 
Sorry.
 
I'm comparing these. I was not insinuating that you don't know.
 
So, if "we do" ... it's very weird that it does not mean enough to you to even comment on it, and compare, is it?
 
That was the point, not the fact (or fiction) that you knew or not!
 

jamesg1213
... My advice - step away from your own record collection, and starting exploring, because you're right, there is 'more music out there' - but I strongly suspect, you ain't listening to it. ...
Practice what you preach Mosh.

I post the reviews all the time. And the next post? ... same thing as before! Oh wait. It's Mosh's fault!
 
Maybe you might want to check out Herd of Identity!
 
I have more "new music" than I know what to do with! And love it all!
 
My sincere apologies for swearing at Rain. I was mad. It won't happen again.

Moshkiae
Hi,
 

Pedro, why is it, that just because somebody listens to music that you don't like (or more accurately - don't approve of - for whatever reasons), you feel the need to try and ridicule them?

 
I only know the English I know. If someone thinks they are being ridiculed, maybe they should/could look in the mirror, and find out why I would say something about something else as a COMPARISON point, that many of you folks appear to not accept.

 
Crap.

Pedro, it may not be your first language, but you're an accomplished writer in English - you know exactly what you're saying and the meaning you wish to convey. Your tone is often condescending, and the content of some of your posts is definitely framed to insinuate that others’ opinions are in someway not as valid as, or inferior to, your own.
 

The Clash is fine, but you folks are not showing that you are doing any homework, to even have any idea what I'm saying (I guess) and that is sad. No matter how much I say there is music out there, the only thing you can talk about is Phil and Garry, and Jimi, and Eric, but you (and Rain) do not appear to have given the others a FAIR listen, to find out what it is all about. Simply because it looks like they did not sell, or get as famous as The Clash, or Black Sabbath!

 
Why on earth should I have to do any homework?
 
I listen to a lot of different stuff. I still actively seek out new bands and try to listen to music I’ve never listened to before. That’s not homework, it’s fun.
 
As to the “the only thing you can talk about” remark, unlike you and a few others I could mention, I talk about stuff that objectively at least, I know something about. When it comes to subjective matters, I’m as much entitled to express my views and opinions as the next man.
 

If you think that "study" is stupid, that is your choice, but I will state right now, that you are missing some living and life that is amazing and very nice, out there. But it all becomes like Germany guitarists are stupid, Norwegian guitarists are bad, Japanese guitarists aren't any good, Chinese guitarists are bizarre ... because all you can compare it to is 4 or 5 Anglo-Saxon folks, that only played one kind of music!

 
Why should I want to “compare”?
 
Whether one guitarist is better than another is a complete irrelevance to me.
 
What matters to me, is not how good anyone is, but whether I enjoy listening to them or not.
 
Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand?
 

That is NOT a put down. THAT IS A REALITY! And I can't help feel, and think, that you guys don't believe it!
What I should do is give you and Rain a ticket to Spain, and spend a week in Granada so you can see how many guitar pickers you can find that will make your hair go weird and crazy. Those people are not only mixing things, they are doing things that rock music can't even conceive! But it's not important because you like this and he likes that?

 
Send tickets immediately.
 
Thanks.
 

I'm not saying, and NEVER HAVE, that you guys are not capable or good. I simply said that you might expand the ear a bit and hear something else and learn more about your instrument! Hopefully!
(From theater and film experience, this makes you better with what you already do!)

 
Hang on a minute, when did this suddenly become about my playing abilities?
 
I don’t listen to stuff to learn. I can download any number of lessons in every conceivable style if I wanted to learn stuff.

... Pop=too commercial; Clash=media hyped; etc. ...

 
Give it a break! When you start listening to a couple of "out there" things, maybe you will know the difference, and what I am saying! Doesn't mean you are not good, or very professional with what you do!
 

 
This is getting tiresome. What has any of this thread got to do with me?
 

... You're opinions are valid, but I just don't understand the constant insinuations that the music you listen to is somehow superior to stuff others enjoy. It actually makes you sound like a bit of a music 'snob', and your attitude means you come across as a bit of a tool. ...

 
Easy! Really easy!
Rock'n'roll, pop music and the related idioms is the SIMPLEST form of music that anyone can learn and play. When you start trying to jam with Rachmaninoff or Stravinsky, let me know ... I will be there playing empty buckets to support you!
 
How much of music history have you ever studied to say that? And not realize the simplicity of rock music for the most part?
 

 
So what?
 
The simplicity or not of any piece of music is irrelevant to whether it’s enjoyable to listen to or not.
 

For me, this is why things like "Tales from Topographic Oceans", "Thick as a Brick", "A Passion Play", 666 (Aphrodite's Child's), Eruption (Focus), Karn Evil #9, and other pieces are "classical music" and do not quite fit in the rock idioms with one exception ... it's the same instruments and its electric! The intent is way out there above and beyong a HIT SONG and a HIT BAND, and specially so for the kissers in The Rolling Stone and the old Melody Maker magazines, who used to love saying things like Tangerine Dream sound like washing machine music, and that idiot OBVIOUSLY never heard a washing machine in his life to make that comparison!
 

 
Yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Heard it all before.
 
You’re like a broken record.
 

It's unbelievable that you, a musician, would even ASK that question!
 

 
Non-sequitur.
 
Whether I’m a musician or not is irrelevant to whether I like certain types of music or not.
 

Now you know why so many folks in the classical music business dismiss "pop" music! It does not take as much talent and concentration as it does for the other music. But you would rather tell Mosh that he is stuck up?
 

 
So what?
 
 

... But who am I to know. You mightn't be quite so transparent and shallow as I'm led to believe...

 
Shallow for me is people who don't know, or believe that there are not other possibilities out there that we can imagine, foresee or even understand. The transparency of the rest is the "secret" behind one's abilities and talents.
 

 
This doesn’t make any sense.
 
 

IF, you want to be good, as an actor, you don't go around doing Richard Burton, or Lawrence Olivier, or Jack Nicholson, or Shirley MacLaine, or Maggie Smith, or Judy Dench! You go out, and you be YOURSELF, and you test your strenghts and weaknesses so you can get better. But here, SADLY, if we even come close to mentioning that, you guys take on the stature of the rock god on the stage, and you can't learn anything. You are the STAR! God bless your bum and cock!

 
My bum and cock thank your god.
 

I love you guys as much as anyone else here. I try hard to show you that there is something else out there. It's a bit sad for me, when some of you look at this and take offense, instead of going to the Internet, pulling out Rachmaninoff, Stravinsky and many other godforsaken things that Mosh mentions, and find out ... wow ... that is different ... I can't even play that on my guitar! But NO. Instead you say that Mosh has a language problem and you guys are offended.
 

 
You think I’m uneducated with regard to classical music?
 
My aunt played viola with The City Of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra for many years, many of them under Simon Rattle. But of course, none of that rubbed off on me.
 
 
 

I wanna tell you something offensive, that really hurt, a year ago. My dad's remains, were finally moved to Lisbon, 30plus years after he died. In a local board in Lisbon, some socialist ****er was upset that the government spent money on a writer, instead of feeding the folks that had no jobs. My sister, as well meaning as she can be, took offense to my comments, which were ... a country with no artists, writers, musicians and painters, has no soul. If you don't appreciate some of them, there is no food out there that will EVER satisfy you! My sister goes ... why do you reply and post in a board where most people are uneducated and have no idea what you are saying?
 
I tell you why Strummie ... because that is one thought, idea and concept I do not like, the upper class snobbery that our family had because of the world wide known writer published in more than 40 languages. But all you can think of, is rock music and its commercial and popular appeal. And that writer is not one of my favorites, but he is a massive inspiration to what you have to do to be more than just ... a local guitarist compared to all the other guitarists, because you yourself have no personality to do your own thing and stand up behind it! That's what it's about isn't it? The courage, strength and desire to stand up for yourself and your own work. Yes, even the Clash deserve the nod!
 

 
Again, what has any of this got to do with me, or my ambitions?
 
You’re waffling with pretentious drivel.
 

So, go ahead ... as John Lennon used to say ... working class heroes! I found that a bit offensive because I'm a worker too, but in the end, the statement was bigger than that ... it meant we didn't know any better, and were not strong enough to learn MORE and possibly BETTER.
 
I'm not about to compare the Clash to Jean Genet, or Rimbaud, or Mapplethorpe. I don't see the point. But the Clash's work does not stand up very well against a lot of writers, painters, musicians and other artists out there ... but you have to have an open mind to check that out, and not think the world is centered around your guitar and the 100 tunes that you know by heart! All you are comparing yourself to is a bunch of other guitarists, and they are not, necessarily, the best out there. Maybe you wanna try some Egberto Gismonti one day!

 
Who says “the Clash's work does not stand up very well against a lot of writers, painters, musicians and other artists out there”?
 
You?
 
So feckin’ what.
 
Sorry mate, but you're fast becoming the forum bore, and that's a shame.
 
 
 
 

Moshkiae
I only know the English I know. 

 
BS. I'm a francophone.
 
I spent the first 30 years of my life in small towns where everyone spoke french and where you couldn't even rent a movie in english. In fact, I lived in French Canada until we embarked on the tour in 2011, though I did work w/ anglophones between 2002 and 2009. 
 
Knowing only the english you know if that were true would not be an excuse. But it would instead be a good reason for one to be a little more careful and to accept criticism. 
 
If that really was your issue, you wouldn't be fighting back so hard to drive that same point across. It not your language, it's your attitude.
 

Moshkiae
 
What I should do is give you and Rain a ticket to Spain
 

 
Speaking through you hat, again. Shows how much you know. I've been to Spain Mosh. I've been to Russia. I've been to a few places here in the US and a few places back home in Canada.
 
Might interest that you know that my wife was on a "little" show that toured the world for a few years with some top notch flamenco dancers and guitar players from Spain, who to this day, remain friends of ours. Those guys do indeed play some amazing stuff.
 
That's one example among thousands of others.
 
So, see, contrarily to what you seem to believe, you need not to be involved at any point for people to immerse themselves into other cultures or to discover and appreciate music. No one's waiting for you to access "second-hand" knowledge. 
 
And that's what this is all about Mosh.
 
Your input is not needed. It's not even yours.
 

SteveStrummerUK
 
Krist, I can tell from your tone that you're obviously jealous...
 
 
Of me.
 
 
Just because Moshpit didn't ask his god to bless your bum and cock.
 
 

Is this an inappropriate time to mention that I really like A Flock of Seagulls?
(And that I have, at least, 800 artists that probably none of you have ever heard of? )

SteveStrummerUK
 
But can you name the band and song from whence A Flock Of Seagulls took their name?
 

I would, but there are hands around my neck...

craigb

SteveStrummerUK
 
But can you name the band and song from whence A Flock Of Seagulls took their name?
 

I would, but there are hands around my neck...

 
Very good
 
And it's such a good song, I'd already lined up the clip...
 

 
Yay!!

Yes, albums are a thing of the past. 
 
Even if you look at most (not all) great albums from the past more than half the tracks on each are crap. It's called filler. People remember things weirdly. 
 
Some just like the whole ceremony of playing and album. Like some people enjoy the ceremony of high tea or whatever. A nice room, lets light the joss sticks and sit on bean bags and enjoy this album from the 60's. No thanks. 
 
Personally I like to move around alot when I listen to music or am playing guitar- same as Beethoven I believe 

Rain

SongCraft
@ Rain, I'd hate to see a yet another really good topic get derailed and locked. Therefore in this case I don't report, I much rather ignore  
 
RE: Albums a Thing of the Past? 
The other sad thing about the music scene is that most of the best 'newly released' music is hard to find; gets buried too deep beneath the hype. The majors continue to monopolize, manipulate public perception and a lot of kids lap it up. I mean duh, just because it's a cute face on the front page of a popular teen magazine means the music is great? {ahem} {diarrhea} {vomit} And it's not just Pop music to single out and complain about, other genres nowadays from Hip-Hop to Rock and Metal has it's good, not so good and awfully freaking horrible. 
 
I love all styles of music from 10,000.BC (sticks and rocks), to Classical, to all out new genres. Music purchasing is a task my wife does (for both of us) whilst I support really good independent bands, the gems buried deep beneath the hype.
 

Thanks, then. :)
 
Sounds a bit like here, where my wife actually suffers through the process of trying to weed out the bad stuff and maybe come up with a few things which are really worth listening. Me I don't have her patience. lol
 
I'm actually just getting back to more mainstream rock after years of being into dark electro/industrial/noise and all that scene. I have hundreds of obscure records by hundreds of small obscure "bands" which I doubt all that many folks around here have heard.
 
I then spent a phase where I immersed myself into traditional Chinese and Japanese music. For over a year, that's practically all I listened to besides classical music.
 
We come here to interact with people, try to find things we have in common. At some point, I think it's a good thing to mingle in. I have much better chances to find other Black Sabbath fans to discuss with than I'm likely to find Feindflug or Unter Null fans. And if someone shows up and also know lots of those and tons of others, like my old pal Craig, all the better. 
 
Anyway, these days, I'm into classic rock. I feel I've earned a right to go back to my simplistic roots. If I say that Highway to Hell is one frickin' awesome song to play or that I like KISS, it's not because I don't know better. I don't see a point in coming here and dropping a bunch of band names that no one else is likely to know, unless it's what we're talking about.
 
Otherwise, if alienating ourselves was the point, I'd write in french and only write about music from Quebec and France. Et ça serait vachement chiant pour vous, mes potes! :P

My core influences are much like yours, bands such; Kiss, Black Sabbath, Queen and such. Those were great years, whereas most albums by new bands, new releases nowadays are far and few between. (see previous post)--> Guess that's another reason why singles are more POPular (there's that word again) LOL!! 
 
In my earlier years since around 1970-1989 all my bands performed and recorded "live" and the music I performed back then was Hard Rock with a fusion of other styles - influences by bands such as; Boston and I enjoyed playing blues (great for warming up, jamming with a band)
 
Rain: Et ça serait vachement chiant pour vous, mes potes! :P
 
Sorry Captain, the translator is malfunctioning and Scotty can't get the weapons and warp drive back online.  Nous sommes sous attaque et le gars parle en cantonais avec un accent écossais {uh oh} :P 
 
Seriously, honestly, the other reason why I have not participated much on forums is due to health issues (I rather not talk about) and this past 6 months has been tough! For decades my focus has always been on the song along with performances (first priority) and capturing that essence because that's what matters most - The final polish (sound) can be done later. I'll worry about getting musicians or pitching to labels later. I still have many songs in the works, but I plan to return to the DAWg by Feb/March 2014. 
 
 

You know, I've been thinking about this whole argument, and maybe it's more than just albums that are a thing of the past.
 
Back in the days, when information was scarce and albums often had to be custom ordered and all, one could think that there was a certain merit in stepping off the beaten path and finding music that did not have a big record company to promote it.
 
I remember ordering albums by bands we knew nothing about from a catalog - w/o even a picture or anything. You didn't get to preview those. And you often had to pay more, because that stuff was imported. All we knew is that they'd toured with a band we knew, or that they were listed in the liner notes of a record or something. There was a lot of guess work.
 
You had to do your homework if you wanted to get an idea of what was out there. You had to have that curiosity. And I guess it meant something.
 
But nowadays, everything is just a click away. Knowing stuff don't mean a thing.
 
Whether it's Lady Gaga or Van der Graaf Generator - one may get you tons more hits in a Google search, but the end result is the same. Practically everything has been logged somewhere and is accessible from virtually anywhere by anyone.
 
In fact, a quick iTunes search and I found a bunch of Van der Graaf albums and Amon Duul and tons of those. So anyone can just grab them off of iTunes or Amazon or then stream them on Grooveshark on YouTube.
 
As a matter of fact, all those bands have been around for so long that they're pretty much established. Maybe they haven't grown in popularity, but they're as readily available as the next Beyonce single. And they've been around for so long that anyone who's into prog rock knows about them. They're the established acts, the classics every fan know about.
 
Still can't get any Tool from the iTune store though.
Now, that requires some homework. :P
 

Wow..looking at this thread makes me glad I chose to simply bow out of a recent discussion on here. Even when people agree to disagree you will find several posts of attempts to get in a last word lol. I think I have said this before but music is right up there with religion, politics and guns when it comes to creating highly subjective opinions presented as and believed by the person stating such to be facts. Most, right or wrong, you can rehash your statements hundreds of ways but once it becomes you vs them on a topic, you will simply take turns rehashing. We all do it now and then. The key is to come to a dead stop when it happens and try to get back on topic.

Rain
You know, I've been thinking about this whole argument, and maybe it's more than just albums that are a thing of the past.
 
Back in the days, when information was scarce and albums often had to be custom ordered and all, one could think that there was a certain merit in stepping off the beaten path and finding music that did not have a big record company to promote it.
 
I remember ordering albums by bands we knew nothing about from a catalog - w/o even a picture or anything. You didn't get to preview those. And you often had to pay more, because that stuff was imported. All we knew is that they'd toured with a band we knew, or that they were listed in the liner notes of a record or something. There was a lot of guess work.
 
You had to do your homework if you wanted to get an idea of what was out there. You had to have that curiosity. And I guess it meant something.
 
But nowadays, everything is just a click away. Knowing stuff don't mean a thing.
 
Whether it's Lady Gaga or Van der Graaf Generator - one may get you tons more hits in a Google search, but the end result is the same. Practically everything has been logged somewhere and is accessible from virtually anywhere by anyone.
 
In fact, a quick iTunes search and I found a bunch of Van der Graaf albums and Amon Duul and tons of those. So anyone can just grab them off of iTunes or Amazon or then stream them on Grooveshark on YouTube.
 
As a matter of fact, all those bands have been around for so long that they're pretty much established. Maybe they haven't grown in popularity, but they're as readily available as the next Beyonce single. And they've been around for so long that anyone who's into prog rock knows about them. They're the established acts, the classics every fan know about.
 
Still can't get any Tool from the iTune store though.
Now, that requires some homework. :P
 
 

 
I remember years ago initially thinking, the Internet has leveled the playing field and made it oh so much easier to publish ones own music all with just a click = done. And get their own EPK and Website(s) published (online). Butt I did not more carefully think about all the cons;
 
1) There are very clever programs (Software) and abundant libraries of loops readily available, therefore requires no music theory or musicianship skills to create music - -
 
2) And also, because it's oh so easy for anyone to publish his/her music = the music scene is way, way overly saturated; 
 
3) On top of the massive pile are releases by major labels and established independent labels or Sub-Labels (is another term), to better explain, independent labels that are affiliated with the major labels. So,
 
4) The majors and their affiliates have their contacts, support and invested money (majors spend millions) to more than kick-start marketing campaigns (major media exposure).
 
5) The economy has taken a beating - much cheaper for these labels to invest, to focus on releasing "Singles" and this also make is quicker, more efficient, more focused media reviews.  
 
6) All these hugely popular download music sites all offering "Singles" and; 
 
7) It’s oh so much cheaper to release music targeted for above mentioned (6) whereas CD's are more expensive; it cost virtually nothing to release MP3 and other downloadable formats. If a new band wants to be successful; 
 
9) Labels rely on a good marketing strategy along with contacts to kick-start their release – and bands need to perform; to help build up their following (fans) and this will also attract major labels and media attention. Usually at the very least, show information published and if the band is great, a review (published). This will get self-independent bands struggling to compete with the majors and sub-lables reasonably good exposure. 
 
10) Whoa, I almost forgot to mention torrent sites and streaming sites. Streaming sites has severely impacted self-independent bands for example, unless a band is with a major label, they will get much less attention and much less per-streaming ($)! Again, all focused on per-song, per-play ((Singles)) Sure the album is listed, but most people will hear the first few seconds and skip to another band.  Tip: Put your best song up front, on top of the playlist. 
 
11) There's a lot of misinformation and scams. 
 
 
Anyway, I released an album and a year later requested a take-down except for the CD which is available at Amazon. From thereon people have to buy the album with no option to purchase per-song; "Singles". As explain, the music scene (distributor/retailers) are mostly setup to release an album but with the "Singles" (per-song downloadable format) option.  
 
IMO I should not have release an album because: I jumped the gun and unfortunately, due to health reasons I will not perform live anymore. Oh well, I never liked being in the spotlight; I never liked the commercial "super-hyped" aspect of the music scene. I remember watching a documentary about George Harrison and yeah he felt the same way. Therefore, as you can imagine I am in a wee bit of a difficult situation but have other plans to workaround it. Meanwhile, I have to take it easy, one step at a time - in my case that be, one tiny step at a time.
 
- -  
 
Thanks (in reply to your previous post)
 
Wish you and yours all the best! :) 
 
 
 
 

Hi,
 

SteveStrummerUK Hang on a minute, when did this suddenly become about my playing abilities?
...

 
I don't look at my "craft" as just "fun". I look at my writing as my life, and getting better on it is important to me!
 

The simplicity or not of any piece of music is irrelevant to whether it’s enjoyable to listen to or not.

 
So history of music is just about "enjoyment", and the rest is crap?
 
Sounds like a 20th century fan-rock comment!
 

...
Who says “the Clash's work does not stand up very well against a lot of writers, painters, musicians and other artists out there”?
 
You?
...

 
I DO.
 
And I like comparing all the arts, since all the "artists" are in the same pot, so to speak.
 
As much as I want to add all the folks here, I can't ... because many of them are thinking with their egos, not their work! You can not stand out in the crowd doing the same thing as anyone else, or someone else's work!
 
But you're not hearing me talk about the individuality needed to get there ... the "you" that I talk about all the time! Instead you turn this discussion into some stupid point about me not liking the Clash or caring about Black Sabbath ... well I do have Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage, their only two albums I enjoy!

mosh...seriously...let it go

washing clothes by hand was not seen as inconvenient at the time.  The Model T was once state of the art.  The Sony Walkman was revolutionary at the time.  DIpping a feather pen in ink was not seen as inconvenient either...until we progressed.. I did not say in my intitial statement that I felt people thought it was inconvenient at that time because I could not expect [people to see the future. I made a statement that you quoted and you added an element that I did not claim. I was perfectly satisfied with how I did things then, but I certainly would not go back to it. Semantics aside,  my point was that once a medium came along that allowed us to simply skip the songs that did not immediately grab us we were more apt as a society to do so.