Sanderxpander
I know this is going to sound unhelpful, but it really isn't. Occide, you have seemingly invested plenty in your computer with lots of RAM and a large SSD, you claim top notch performance, you "don't like limitations when you want to be creative", yet you want to spend the absolute minimum on an audio interface?
 
I don't see a happy solution here. You don't have to go with RME necessarily (though you will likely get great results), but it would definitely help you to not shop in the budget market if you want to improve the performance of your system.

 
Best post so far!  The audio interface and it's driver are the heart of any DAW system. 

tlw
If you want inexpensive try a basic Focusrite or, if all you need is stereo audio output not input, try using on-board audio chip on the motherboard using Sonar's WASAPI driver settings. That may do what you need.

Just tried the Realtek Onboard "Premium" Audio with WASAPI and my 48 Track Falcon Iris Neutron test. This is sadly a lot worse than the M-Audio. Or maybe I should be happy, cause I'm already maxed out at that price category?
 
EDIT: The M-Audio with WASAPI is a mess, too.
 
But I'll consider the Focusrite. Well people don't tell, but everybody does it sometimes, so I maybe order one from Amazon, test it and if it's not better send it back. Not the gentleman's way, I know. I blame the companies, why don't they add real numbers to their products, reliable tests they've made, comparison to other devices.

occide
Sorry I disagree with "Uncle Bob"s opinion. If you (or he) think it's true, some data would be nice. What was tested? Which CPUs, which mainboards, which chipsets, what DRAM, which soundcard(s), which software, which plugins... you get the idea. How was it measured? Against what was it compared?
 
So if anyone has a thing or two to say on the actual topic that would be great. I'm starting to wonder why I still come to this board. Slowly but surely getting hilarious.

FWIW, "Uncle Bob" has been building DAWs professionally for over 20 years.
He's been using DAWs for around 30 years.
 
I tested **ALL** of the higher end Ryzen motherboards.
Stress-test was DAW Bench (well known low-latency audio specific stress-tests).
Also ran generic Passmark tests...
 
Ryzen is not particularly great for higher-end gaming... due to the lower clock-speed.
Ryzen is good for heavily multi-threaded applications (video rendering).
For heavily multi-threaded applications at low-latency, you'll want fast RAM.
 
When running DAW Bench (using their Multi-band compressor for load):
The 6850k bests the 1800x when running the 32Bit version of the multi-band comp.
The 1800x bests the 6850k when running the 645Bit version of the multi-band comp.
 
You can find my original thread for the test specifics.
 
In "Uncle Bob's" world, he has to build DAWs for clients (not just himself).
That dramatically changes perspective.
The current state of flaky X370 motherboards would be a nightmare.
 
As an example, "Uncle Bob" just sent Fred Coury (drummer for Cinderella - now a TV/Film composer) two well endowed DAWs.  Fred is the kind of client who can afford zero downtime.
Do you have any idea the backlash good ol "Uncle Bob" would would receive if Fred's dealing with tight deadlines for The Night Shift... and he suddenly has to pull all system RAM or clear the CMOS to restore SMT?
"Uncle Bob" can't/won't let that happen.
So... thoughtful "Uncle Bob" built Fred's machines using X99 motherboards and 6900k CPUs.
 
BTW, It's not enough for AMD to simply equal Intel (and especially not at equal price points).
Intel is a well established rock-solid platform.
Clients who can afford zero downtime can't be dealing with flaky components.
They've got work to finish on tight deadlines.  Saving $100 is penny wise... dollar foolish.

Forum software is swallowing entire posts again, so sorry if this goes through twice...
 

Jim Roseberry
...
FWIW, "Uncle Bob" has been building DAWs professionally for over 20 years.
He's been using DAWs for around 30 years.
...

1.) You're a little late to the party.
 
2.) If you'd read the entire thread you'd noticed that the fuzz wasn't about you but about other guys falsely interpreting your test. Although I'm no longer sure about that. Like I said before, it's all a mater of relation. When everyone is so freaking competent around here, let me introduce myself, too. I'm a professional programmer for more than 15 years, add my youth and it's 22 years. I've built PCs (not especially DAW PCs) basically since they existed, I've built commercial PCs and servers for several years at a local company. I've had professional training in electronics for 3 years (+ another 15 as hobbyist), I repair Laptops, find the blown parts in a complex circuitry with a multimeter.
I wanna make music just for fun. I'm having fun, but it kinda stops when people around here feel the immediate urge to jump to defend either their beloved Sonar, their dogma or whatever. When I make music, I DON'T want to fix stuff, cause I basically have to do that all day. I want it work, nothing else.
 
So everyone around here respects you, and that's ok. Many people around here disrespect me, that's ok too. But don't mix up "I've done this for my whole life" with "I know the last and least answer to any question about that topic". I certainly try not to fall into that trap. If you seriously represent the opinion that Ryzen 7 CPUs are bad for making music I'd say go check your numbers again. Maybe test more than just one plugin times 200. Any semi-professional tech Youtuber does that.
 
EDIT: Before you get that wrong. I said "Uncle Bob" not in an attempt to disrespect you, Jim. I said it because someone quoted you like "my uncle Bob said" without proper introduction or a context I could understand. It wasn't meant offensive in any way towards you personally, but still I apologize for that term.
 
Oh and by the way, to anyone else: If you really want to defend Sonar, maybe you shouldn't pick that much on customers around here, we're the people that are paying for the continuous development of it. I've mentioned in another thread already that some topics tend to drift towards "toxic" rather quickly if someone hits a nerve.

Where did you get the idea that the people replying to this thread are making money with there DAW's. I think some of us HAVE made money either playing live or doing some home studio recording but the opposite is true and this is generally a hobby. Sonar is a great DAW but still remains a home studio staple. 
Interfaces can be had for $79.  
From my experience all interfaces priced below about $500 perform about the same so your whole thread title is pointless. 
Your quest is for a $300 interface. The latency factor will be negligibly different at that price point between brands and models. 
 
You've set your budget and that's a good start. Now it's up to you to shop for the interface with the features you want. You asked us and we all said the same thing. If your worried about latency, spend more money and get an RME, LYNX or MOTU. This is pretty simple for most to figure out. 

A quick on-topic comment so the OP isn't tripped up should this happen. Several USB interfaces do not work well on USB 3 ports. If you get one and have issues, be sure it is plugged into a USB 2 port. If your computer has no USB 2 ports, think ahead (like purchasing from a vender with a liberal 30-day return policy). Should buy from such regardless actually.

Off topic, I happen to like "Uncle Bob."

So I spent this Sunday morning dealing with dropouts again. People been asking about a specific scenario / plugins, so here we go:
 
9 Tracks, 5x Iris 2, 2x Falcon (single instrument per instance), 1x Ample Guitar Light, 1xTAL NoiseMaker
Moderate amount of plugins per track, Neutron on every track + 1-4 Plugins from this list: MiniFilter V, BT Tempo Delay, BT Stereo Image, TAL Reverb II, OrilRiver, Spaceship Delay, BlueVerb DRV
ASIO Buffer Size: 1024
 
So far no real issues except for that spike came back on Core 0. Technically not really the first core, but the first bar in the Performance meter, set to Audio Processing. 
(Quote: Measures SONAR’s audio processing load, which is the time it takes to process a buffer full of audio data as a percentage of the maximum time available to process that data and maintain uninterrupted playback. There is one CPU meter for each core in your computer, up to 32 cores. There is some tolerance built into the meter, so it is possible that it will exceed 100% at times (more so during recording than playback).)
 
Then I started playing with the LP plugins on the Master channel. WUT, plugins on the master channel? You, the reader, have done this before, too. ;)
LP EQ, LP MB, Adaptive Limiter + GStereo + MStereoScope
LP Plugins all set to maximum quality.
 
Now the spike on Core 0 went up higher and started to peak around 70%, causing Sonar to dropout.
The same time the overal CPU load was barely noticable, between 1% and 20% per Core.
 
EDIT: Just for comparison, I'm able to run 24 Tracks of Iris 2 + 24 Tracks of Falcon + Neutron on every channel with the exact same configuration as above (except for the Master Bus), without any dropouts, CPU load about 70% higher than the above scenario.
 
I did some research and found the setting ThreadSchedulingModel should be set to "2" on 4-Core (or more) CPUs, according to various threads around here.
 
Now the spike went away, in fact the whole first bar in the Performance meter went away. Also the "main" dropout went away, therefor more issues came up. I started to get Midi-Dropouts, a lot of them. Notes just didn't play, each track swallowed some notes. My Midi-buffer was already at 1000ms, increasing it further didn't help.
 
After couple of hours of trial and error I found now with the ThreadSchedulingModel change I needed to decrease the Midi-buffer to 250ms.
 
This is exactly the kind of stuff I want to go away - it cost me so much time and kills all the fun. Basically I wanted to create some sampler instruments this morning. Instead I did nothing, but dealing with dropouts.
 
Some people around here, who have more experience with Sonar than me should sit down together and write an Official Sonar Performance Guide with FAQ section, Common Problems and Solutions Section etc. 
 
 

Wow, some news!
 
After the day had been a waste anyway I thought "maybe I'm gonna try ASIO4All again before I buy anything.
 
The last version of ASIO4All was broken beyond repair for me. But a new version came out this May, I didn't know.
 
TL;DR with ASIO4All I can set the buffer size down to 64 (doesn't go smaller on the panel) and don't get any dropouts or issues at all. Even when I use the Realtek Audio. So the 5 years old M-Audio driver definitely was the main issue. Let's see how it turns out in the long run.
 
So if you have an old M-Audio like me, your buffersize is already at 1024 samples and you still have a ton of problems, even though your PC is fast: Try ASIO4All.

Cactus Music
There you go folks after spending all this time reasoning and typing clear bullet proof advice and  recommendations, the answer was Asio4all all along    Are you all thinking what I'm thinking! 

Not really. Glad I said "Let's see how it turns out in the long run."
 
After a while some weird stuff started to show. I also made a mistake at first and adjusted the buffer size on the wrong device.

So I'm basically back to those 1024 samples but the Midi dropouts went away, at least in this particular scenario.
The onboard Realtek still performs a notch better than the M-Audio and is able to playback this with "only" 512. Therefor some paning goes bonkers now and then, not exactly sure why, but one track got louder and louder on the right channel each time I hit playback again.

Some might not believe but I do listen to any helpful advice and do my research on it. I came here for solutions, not to waste my time.

Vastman
Freeze tracks or capture audio real time and disable synths till u can afford a rock solid interface like RMI. Takes no time, costs you nothing and relieves latency/dropout issues till ya get the bucks. I don't make money on music either but sacrificed lots of things to get what I need to do what I love. Babyface pro is a dream come true in terms of stability, latency, amazing mic pre's and dacs

Although I have to admit the freezing in Sonar is pretty damn convenient, it didn't really tackle this particular problem with the LP Plugins on the master bus. I don't know, something is wrong here. It just doesn't really compare, such low load, such big problems. Probably my own fault, if I see a small problem like this I can't let go until I solved it entirely. 
 
Probably trying to catch a straw here, but what about those ESI PCIe cards? Maya44 eX and Juli XTE, anyone has ever tested them? Which of these two cards is the newer one? I still find shopping offers for Maya, but not for Juli. Even Ebay only has 1 card listed broken worldwide.
 
 I always see that as a good sign btw. Ebay is full of my M-Audio Delta 44, but it's the good stuff people keep and don't sell.

dwardzala
Are you tracking with the LP plug-ins on any tracks/busses?   You will see a significant improvement by bypassing those effects while tracking.

Only on the master bus. Of course they introduce additional delay. The problem is however should they cause Midi dropouts? Why are they causing Midi dropouts with the original driver and not with ASIO4All?

dwardzala
Seems like a simple thing to try and bypass them to see if you get an improvement.  Sometimes there are interactions that aren't obvious.

 
Sure, I've done that many times, and yes, of course it improves things. I thought that might be obvious, and also it kinda was the whole point (at least part of the point). I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You mean those plugins are the problem? In another thread people tried to convince me that they're not. And I have to admit back then I didn't know what "linear phase" meant, and why the introduced delay cannot be avoided unless we invent time machines. But that delay shouldn't cause dropouts, neither audio nor midi, at least not at this high buffer sample size we're talking, 1024. Or am I wrong about that? What happens on your machine when you chain LP EQ, LP MB and the new Adaptive Limiter on highest quality settings? Do you get Midi-dropouts, too? Do you have to raise your ASIO buffer to 1024 and beyond?

pfschaefer
You can probably pick up a used MOTU Ultralite Mk3 on eBay in the general neighborhood of $325. But, I'd make sure I understood the causes of my problems before swapping out interfaces. But, if it were me, I'd just save my pennies for an RME Babyface Pro. Been using my RME UFX for several years without a single hiccup from day 1.

It's hard to determine the cause of these problems, cause I don't have other hardware to compare it to and nobody here seems interested in sharing the results on their own machine with this particular setup of the LP plugins.

dwardzala
I don't use LP EQ, LP MB during tracking.  They are not designed to be used that way.

Yes and no. It is not clear what "highest quality settings" means. Assuming it means a precision setting other than Non-Linear, yes that is probably not a good idea while tracking. The Non-Linear setting is a reasonable setting for tracking and may even be the preferred setting regardless of how the plug-ins are used.