Look....PURE COMMON SENSE tells you that they are not 
going to give you the "same" quality in a $50 plugin that
you get in $5,000 hardware unit.  The very thought is ridiculous...

Do you really think when you buy an Alpha Compressor Plugin
from Plugin-Alliance that you're getting "the same thing" as 
the $10,000 hardware unit?  NO YOU'RE NOT.

You can think what you want...I KNOW BETTER....

I have those "REVERB PLUGINS" and they don't sound like their
Hardware counterparts...they "Mimic", but it's definitely not "the same".

As I stated before, if THAT were the case, they'd stop building hardware
and concentrate on Plugins.  Studios wouldn't continue to buy half million dollar Neve and SSL Consoles
and spend millions on outboard gear.  Large scale Studios would DROP THEIR ELECTRIC
BILLS DRASTICALLY - not to mention "equipment expenses" by just buying
a really great PC, a decent inteface, and emulations...BUT THEY DON'T ...
and there IS a reason for that...

They sell BILLIONS in "almost quality" plugins to "wanna be" Engineers and Producers
like you and I...who "like to think" they have "great ears" and that they're getting the same thing....
trust me, you're not...It's just "business" for them. And they sell it BIG TIME.

You're not going to get, in a $50 plugin, what they put into a $10,000 hardware unit...
plain and simple.

I really can't believe how irrational and naive people are...

WAKE UP!!!  It's about MONEY...and that's all I'm saying about this...

I find the very notion ridiculous...common sense tells you otherwise...
not to mention WHAT I HEAR.

cclarry
 
And if you look "Behind" him, you can see what he "prefers" to use...LOL

I was being sarcastic. I'm with you on this. Plugins are our racks of expensive gear we otherwise could not afford..

cclarry
Look....PURE COMMON SENSE tells you that they are not 
going to give you the "same" quality in a $50 plugin that
you get in $5,000 hardware unit.  The very thought is ridiculous...

Do you really think when you buy an Alpha Compressor Plugin
from Plugin-Alliance that you're getting "the same thing" as 
the $10,000 hardware unit?  NO YOU'RE NOT.

You can think what you want...I KNOW BETTER....

I have those "REVERB PLUGINS" and they don't sound like their
Hardware counterparts...they "Mimic", but it's definitely not "the same".

As I stated before, if THAT were the case, they'd stop building hardware
and concentrate on Plugins.  Studios wouldn't continue to buy half million dollar Neve and SSL Consoles
and spend millions on outboard gear.  Large scale Studios would DROP THEIR ELECTRIC
BILLS DRASTICALLY - not to mention "equipment expenses" by just buying
a really great PC, a decent inteface, and emulations...BUT THEY DON'T ...
and there IS a reason for that...

They sell BILLIONS in "almost quality" plugins to "wanna be" Engineers and Producers
like you and I...who "like to think" they have "great ears" and that they're getting the same thing....
trust me, you're not...It's just "business" for them. And they sell it BIG TIME.

You're not going to get, in a $50 plugin, what they put into a $10,000 hardware unit...
plain and simple.

I really can't believe how irrational and naive people are...

WAKE UP!!!  It's about MONEY...and that's all I'm saying about this...

I find the very notion ridiculous...common sense tells you otherwise...
not to mention WHAT I HEAR.

There is still a processing limit to how many plugins one can run at a time.  A full blown project typically still needs hardware.  And the interface to get into the "box" is huge.  Of course a $200 interface will not yield the same results as a $500K console into the box.  However, once that signal is in the box, you would be shocked how small the difference is between a good hardware compressor or reverb is to what you can do just in the box.  You are making the assumption that the technology will not get there eventually and I strongly disagree it will.  Once you can dedicate the processing power to those functions it is just the right algorithms to create the quality sound.  You can make exact copies of those reverb as stated they are computers, to think it can't be done is naive.  In fact, many reverbs used on hit recordings over the years are of lower quality than what you can get with Overloud.  
 
It is no different than suggesting a hardware SM57 is equal to a U87 mic in terms of quality and fidelity.  
 
Large scale studios have a vested interested in buying and using fancy things.  Do you think someone is going to pay $400/hour to play in someones basement with a laptop?  Studios ARE a dying breed and it is because home studio equipment including plugins have gotten quite good and the real limiting factor in many cases is the user once you have comparable mics and pres along with a decent room.  Many great studios have gone bankrupt because they bought the gear you claim they need.  How many studios have you gone to recently?  I'm friends with a few successful studio owners and I know others that have needed to move onto other things.  
 
In a mix you are not going to tell the difference done by someone that really knows what they are doing if you swap out a hardware compressor for a really high quality plugin using the same mic and pres and interface.  They will sound "different" but you will not be able to tell which is which, the real thing or the plugin with any degree of certainty outside of random guessing.  
 
I've done quite a bit of testing with this theory.  
 
You make a lot of assumptions.  I've worked in fancy studios and I've worked with Grammy winning artists (as if that even matters).  
 
There are pieces of hardware that still excede the quality of a plugin or computer processor hardware.  The Trainwreck amp I have access to is one of those pieces of gear.  However, there are pieces of hardware that are on par with what you can get in the box.  There are pieces of hardware that do not sound as good as some plugins.  

Emulating hardware...or anything else for that matter...is just a matter of computing power. Our own brains, for gawd's sake, are really no more than well integrated, fast computers. Computing power is growing...and will continue to do so...at an exponential rate. End of argument. There is no magic. There are no unicorns. There are no fairies. There are no spirits or ghosts.

Unless and until we obliterate our species and our world...which itself is a real possibility...we will continue to overcome every technological problem in our path. No matter how long...or short...a time it takes.

This has been a fact since we crawled out of the sea. And will remain so. Period.

Wake up.

cclarry
Look....PURE COMMON SENSE tells you that they are not 
going to give you the "same" quality in a $50 plugin that
you get in $5,000 hardware unit.  The very thought is ridiculous...

I don't think it's so ridiculous. If software can recreate the sound of a hardware unit to the point where the vast majority of ears can't tell the difference then that's that - the price doesn't come into it. Software is clearly cheaper to develop and manufacture than hardware. Price is no reliable measure of power or quality, and advances in technology bring down the price of things. Most of us are now walking around with phones which are more powerful than the computers which launched and navigated the first Space Shuttle, and we paid no more than two or three hundred dollars for them. Is that processing power of lesser quality because it's in the form of a small chip instead of millions of dollars worth of outdated hardware?

Hardware units have no latency.  That's all I can say. 

And hardware units have no real consistency, not only between units but generally over time as they degrade. And yes, there are valid economic reasons why someone would produce a fifty dollar plugin that sounds for all rational reasons exactly like its $5000 dollar hardware counterpart. You might sell one thousand of the hardware units all the while dealing with manufacturing, parts sourcing, quality control and shipping costs or 50,000 software units that are perfectly consistent, do not degrade over time and can be updated with a few mouse clicks. Why on earth do you think that top level hardware companies like Manley, Empirical Labs, Lexicon, Shadow Hills, etc...have not only allowed plugin equivalents to be produced but licensed with their names?? Time has moved on...and it ain't stoppin for the likes of you or me.

PS: And never forget that a hardware unit is track limited...so to even begin to compete with plugins...you're gonna need a crap load of them.

How about a cassette tape portastudio?

yorolpal
@Mosvalve...Then you need to check out the work of Sylvia Massy. A well known, well respected and creative engineer, mixer and producer who has worked with some of the biggest names in the business. She has used all manner of hi and lo fi gear to record simply stellar projects and doesn't adhere to any of the conventional rules when doing so. Thankfully, she puts the lie to many hidebound notions in the audio ethos.

I absolutely will. I look forward to hearing her stuff.

In 20 years most external hardware will be vintage gear and companies won't be producing them anymore. Algos will get better and better and computers will get faster and faster. I have no doubt that it will get to the point that every single piece of analog gear can be modeled so close to 100% as to be undetectable to human ears or even most audio analyzers.
 
(jumps back into the shadows)

Someday they will be selling NOS plugins...
 
- for my guitar geek buddies out there! :)

Interesting discussion.... and a great read.   Personally I believe ITB is totally doable these days assuming one has captured good audio on the way in.     One thing I didn't see in the discussion was comparison of a professional hardware studio to a professionally crafted ITB audio chain that follows the same audio flow as a hardware-only based studio.    
 
Something to consider when mixing ITB is to create the entire hardware chain used in a pro studio with your plugin tools, not just adding random plugins or presets and expecting your mix to magically sound professional.  Spent many years and $$$ buying plugins with little progress in quality and little to show for it:(
 
For me, only when someone suggested starting with a basic framework to truly emulate all the components that make up the professional hardware studio's "audio magic"  did it start to come together.    i.e, start with a proper Channel Strip chains(tape, compressor, console emulation, etc), Bus Templates (compression, delay, reverb, etc), Master Bus settings (Tape, Console Emulation, Compressor, Limiter, etc...), that are all properly gain staged, so your mix starts from a solid foundation.    If you don't have that initial foundation to start from, all the great plugins you find out there will never sound as good as the video demo that prompted their purchase.      I think what is missing in many ITB mixes is that something is missing in the overall chain or a bad initial capture of the source material  occurred.  
 
When I first bought a UAD Apollo and some UAD plugs last year and started inserting random plugs into my mixes, my mixes were not incrementally better as a result.   After watching a video on the EMT Plate 140, understanding it,  and using the plug in a digital realm did not automatically produce the same results as how they were used the EMT Plate in a studio back in the days of tape and mixing desks.   However, set-up the EMT Plate Reverb Bus to include some Studer or other Tape Sim, Compressor, EQ'ing and then it comes pretty close to the original hardware results in my opinion.  This is of course assuming a good initial capture, proper gain staging, etc...  My 2 cents...
 
 
Regards

Soundwise

dcumpian

smallstonefan
In 20 years most external hardware will be vintage gear and companies won't be producing them anymore. Algos will get better and better and computers will get faster and faster. I have no doubt that it will get to the point that every single piece of analog gear can be modeled so close to 100% as to be undetectable to human ears or even most audio analyzers.
 
(jumps back into the shadows)

Just look how much things have changed in just the last 5 to 10 years...
 
Dan
 

A hundred years ago musicians were blowing horns, fifty years ago they started slinging strings... Nowadays musicians draw patterns.
The best of us create masterpieces, regardless of the equipment. The rest just keep on coveting the magical gear. Sometimes, listening to the greatest hits of the past, I wonder, how could engineers release such crappy recordings?
That legendary tone of [your favorite Artist name here] pulled out of the mix isn't that fancy, or inspiring, in fact mediocre at best. That is, according to modern standards. I firmly believe, that the role of gear in music is highly exaggerated. The reason we enjoy those sweet, great songs of good ol' days is mainly because the music itself speaks books to us.
 

 

I'm sorry but most of the music today is crapp. Back in those days they were real engineers. Today were are using plugins like Abbey Road Real ADT and the creativity of those engineers back then was amazing.

Soundwise

Mosvalve
 
I'm sorry but most of the music today is crapp. Back in those days they were real engineers. Today were are using plugins like Abbey Road Real ADT and the creativity of those engineers back then was amazing.

It's not that I disagree, but wasn't there the same amount of crap in music in the days of old?

The days of old had its share of crap music to.