Mosvalve
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Am I to believe
that people like Ross Hogarth are really using these plugins on albums that are released to the public? Maybe on demos they are but with the equipment they have I doubt it. It's just hard to buy into. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDS0G2hBtDg
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cclarry
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/01 18:18:02
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2016/07/21 16:46:52
Most Engineers, I found, use a combination... They'll use plugins to get it part of the way there...and hardware to get the "full" whammy. I have yet to hear a mix done entirely "in the box" that sounds anywhere as near alive as a "hardware" done mix...if that were the case, there would be a lot of hardware companies out of business. I have had this argument repeatedly. There is no way that a $50 plugin is going to sound remotely the same as it's $2000 hardware counterpart. If that were true, then these major studios wouldn't be buying $500,000 consoles and spending hundreds of thousands in outboard gear. They'd buy plugins, save a whole lot of money, and be done...
post edited by cclarry - 2016/07/01 19:02:36
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/01 18:39:31
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Lots of outboard used on the way in... and a combination at mix.
We've got several clients who are mix engineers.
Yes, the do make extended use of plugins.
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cclarry
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/01 18:46:07
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Jim Roseberry
Lots of outboard used on the way in... and a combination at mix.
We've got several clients who are mix engineers.
Yes, the do make extended use of plugins.
Great tracking on the way in sure helps to make great mix on the way out... THAT much is for sure!
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Mosvalve
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/01 19:11:32
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I'm not sure I would ever use or need to use a plugin if I had that kind of equipment but I guess I'll never know.
BobV ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub, and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
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timidi
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/01 20:02:01
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If he's using a de-esser probably wouldn't want him mixing for me.
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tlw
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/01 21:39:29
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There are commercial releases that use plugins throughout and minimal hardware, yes. Particularly in the electronica field.
Whether any use one of these Waves' "simple signature multi-effects" is a different matter.
Whether the people whose signature appears on the plugin use it, no idea. Maybe they do if it emulates the way they'd approach things using multiple plugins or hardware and it gets the results for them in their mix using tracks recorded in the way they like tracks recorded. Which doesn't mean anyone else will ever get the same sound out of one.
It's like buying a 1969 Strat and converting it to upside-down left-handed use, adding an original late 60s Fuzz Face and Crybaby, plugging into a Marshall Super-Lead and expecting the gear to turn you into Jimi Hendrix.
It won't. You'll sound like you playing through Hendrix's stage rig, which might even make you sound worse instead of better.
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KingsMix
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/01 21:52:24
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Mosvalve
that people like Ross Hogarth are really using these plugins on albums that are released to the public? Maybe on demos they are but with the equipment they have I doubt it. It's just hard to buy into.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDS0G2hBtDg
It's highly possible. Especially when it comes to time constraint and efficiency, I am not sure if the implication here is that this type of plugin is a gimmick, but in the past I would have entertained the thought that without a doubt this type of a plugin is a gimmick, but in today's advances in technology I would say that it is highly possible that this type of plugin can be and is being used on commercially released material. And by the way, i do own this plugin and use it when needed . Remember , they are all just tools, but if you are looking for a one stop fix to bypass taste and choice, it'll never happen.
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AT
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/02 00:23:52
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Yes, mix engineers use plugs all the time. If it is well recorded with good hardware and in a great space with an engineer that knows how to get a sound, plugs sound great come mix time. And when the request comes back for "these minor changes" it is much quicker to call up the session than reset a bunch of analog hardware from pics on your iPhone. Time is money.
If you get a chance to A/B hard and software, it can be really difficult to tell them apart for mix purposes, esp. if you aren't pushing the software hard, esp. for tone. A lot of that should be done going in anyway, through hardware. That is where I find hardware useful, esp. when pushing it. And fun. You get to "play" with your engineering toys.
Being about to mix back out through hardware is all gravy. But plugs can work as well after tracking.
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http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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yorolpal
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 01:00:12
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More and more top level mix engineers are going totally ITB. Andrew Schepps comes to mind as a good example. This is because many plugins have finally reached, for all intents and purposes, parity with the modeled hardware. Plus the advantages of plugs versus hardware are self evident...the ability to have multiple instances, mobility, extra features lacking in the hardware to name but a few. In short, like many other useless anachronistic debates that have been superceded by technological advances, it's over. Plugins are the future. And will only get better. Try to come to grips with it. Hard though it may be.
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cclarry
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 07:27:29
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I personally don't believe that a plugin will ever reach the level,
sound wise, of outboard gear. There is something about the actual
electron/chaos theory/hooked to a box magic that I just don't believe
can be "modeled" in a software algorithm...but they'll get close...
where this is really evident is in Amp Sims...they're nice...but still
not the same as "real mic'd Guitar and Amp" set up...
Outboard gear is not going away any time soon...not for the "Big Boyz"...
and they wouldn't charge $50 for a plugin and $5,000 for the "real thing"
if they could "get the same sound" out of the plugin...there's more then just
an "enigma" there to me....YMMV
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gswitz
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 09:37:07
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☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2016/07/04 10:11:55
I use my hardware compressor.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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tlw
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 10:32:07
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☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2016/07/04 14:48:05
cclarry
I personally don't believe that a plugin will ever reach the level,
sound wise, of outboard gear. There is something about the actual
electron/chaos theory/hooked to a box magic that I just don't believe
can be "modeled" in a software algorithm...but they'll get close...
where this is really evident is in Amp Sims...they're nice...but still
not the same as "real mic'd Guitar and Amp" set up...
Outboard gear is not going away any time soon...not for the "Big Boyz"...
and they wouldn't charge $50 for a plugin and $5,000 for the "real thing"
if they could "get the same sound" out of the plugin...there's more then just
an "enigma" there to me....YMMV No enigma at all. Making hardware means designing a circuit, constructing a prototype, testing it and repeatedly tweaking it. Then buying in the components to make the finalised release version of the device, getting the enclosure made and printed, hours of labour to make each unit, space to stockpile it, distribution arrangements to sell it with what the distributor will pay being a key factor if whether something can be profitably made or not. Add shipping costs, warranty repair costs, tooling costs for the production line and probably lots I've forgotten. Followed by continually monitoring component suppliers to check what they sell today is the same as what they sold you yesterday. Software plugin. Analyse unit you want to model. Develop the virtual equivalent and fine-tune it. Then sell direct through your website. No additional construction costs/unit because there are no incremental costs involved increating a copy of digital data. No storage or shipping costs, no deal with distributors required so you can sell direct at the same price you'd accept from a distributor for something that involves near-zero costs beyond development. No components to buy in, no machinery to hire or buy. The cost of making one copy of a plugin and a million copies is so close it's pocket change. Make the price too high and you lose money, or make less than you would by selling at a lower price which generates far more sales. It's no different to selling a CD versus selling downloads of music. One way means paying for maybe millions of CDs, the other doesn't. And someone might spend $50 on impulse or just to find out what the plugin is like. Very few people will pay $500 for those reasons, and still fewer pay $5,000. As for software modelling vs. hardware, my answer to that is "it depends."
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yorolpal
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 10:55:44
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☄ Helpfulby Vastman 2016/07/20 00:22:58
And man will never fly, the moon landing was faked, and any talk of some tiny "super device" that a person can carry in their pocket which will not only connect them to a world wide communications network, but the Computing power of which will dwarf that of the room filling boxes that were used during said moon landing by orders of magnitude, and will also shoot excellent photos and acceptable video AND house most all the music one would care to listen to is just childish fantasy talk.
Just sayin.
The world has never had a shortage of Luddites who swore that X or Y could never be done. And then it was.
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Mosvalve
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 11:25:58
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Just imagine the day when all compressors, Eq's Reverbs. Delay's etc. and all instruments are modeled precisely and all we need to do is select the modeled instrument and click in midi notes to create our musical masterpiece. Then, insert that precisely modeled Eq, compressor, Delay and Reverb and send it off to that magical cloud for all the world to listen to. Maybe once in a while make a visit to the museum where all those Useless old instruments and hardware consoles and things are now displayed. Yes they were cool in their day.
BobV ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub, and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
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Sycraft
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 11:56:35
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Why would it be hard to believe? There's nothing magic about hardware, it is just another way of accomplishing things. So if you have software that can do what you want, that is often advantageous since it is easier to use.
It is true that you can't do a "perfect" emulation of a piece of analogue hardware because at this point it is far too CPU intensive to do a real circuit simulation with full propagation delays and so on in realtime. However that doesn't matter because you may be able to work out how to model it in other ways such that it sounds precisely the same, as in nulls in an inverse test.
But even that caveat only applies if you are trying to model analogue hardware. If the hardware is digital, then it can, by the very definition of a Turing Machine, be perfectly emulated on any other Turing complete processor. Digital "hardware" is just software. It is a CPU, FPGA or ASIC of some variety running code of some variety. That can all be made to run on your CPU in your desktop just fine. Easy to do in realtime as well, since Intel desktop CPUs are crushingly powerful compared to the stuff they stick in outboard gear. So the only reason why there are things you can get in dedicated hardware but not on the PC of that type are because companies choose to keep it exclusive. It could be implemented as software, if they wanted to since it literally IS software, just on a different platform.
Now talking about old analogue gear again, there's the issue that with software we can actually do BETTER for nearly everything. There are very real limitations in the analogue world that we just don't face in the digital world. So we can, and do, make things that are far superior. Like just take the basic mixer built in to every DAW. No analogue device, no matter how perfect, could ever come near to the perfection offered by a digital mixer. No distortion, noise below anything you can create, massive amounts of headroom, etc, etc. It is the pinnacle of transparency. Or limiters that can actually "look in to the future" and react prior to level changes. Or equalizers that maintain perfect phase linearity. We can and do make digital tools that cannot exist in the analogue world.
I'm not trying to bash analogue hardware, some of it gives a unique and desirable sound, but I think people worship it like magic too much. The question is getting what you want and often software can do that easier, and better, than hardware.
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cclarry
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 12:21:57
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☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2016/07/04 12:53:05
I disagree..there IS magic in hardware...
Just like, no matter how hard they've tried, they
just can't seem to get "real tube" sound...they
are getting better at it...but not "There" yet...
The magic is in electrons flowing through wires and
circuits and Diaphragms and etc...into a multi-thousand
dollar console and then, either on to "Magnetic Tape",
which they have yet to really "nail", or into a console and
then back out to outboard gear, and then back to the console
and then back out again to a PC...etc...
ALL of those variables, and "Chaos Theory" are what make
for a great deal of the "sound", which an algorithm simply
isn't going to reproduce. And THAT is one of the reasons
that certain consoles are "revered"...
The MEER THOUGHT that a $50 plugin is going to "give that
to you" is ridiculous IMO...
HALF of the magic in the plugins comes from the "gear that
was used to sample it", and not from the "algorithm" per se...
but that's not going to replace "hardware" or they'd just stop
building Hardware, and STOP USING IT...common sense...as Plugins are
dirt cheap...
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jamesg1213
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 12:51:00
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☄ Helpfulby Soundwise 2016/07/04 18:03:20
cclarry
The magic is in electrons flowing through wires and
circuits and Diaphragms and etc...into a multi-thousand
dollar console and then, either on to "Magnetic Tape",
which they have yet to really "nail", or into a console and
then back out to outboard gear, and then back to the console
and then back out again to a PC...etc...
...then converted to MP3 and listened to on $10 earbuds... 
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yorolpal
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 17:07:45
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Word.
And don't forget that most all hardware devices are slightly dissimilar to one another. No two sound "exactly" alike. And some of them...even a few of the most revered ones...sound like crap compared to others. I have seen (and you can too) and heard even the most sceptical a-list session players, in pro studio settings, using their favorite amps be completely unable to tell the difference between their amp and their amp as just modeled by the Kemper. And the same holds true for eqs and compressors...even more so. In any case, any and all dissimilarities will continue to fade into non existence.
You are one of my best ol forum pals Larry the Great...but there is no more "magic" than there are unicorns or leprechauns
:-)
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Soundwise
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 18:00:05
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If one searches for a particular sound character or a tool to get things sound "right", then yes, some pieces of gear definitely have "Magic" components, that "just work" or "do it right".
Yet when you create music or sound, you can use whatever is available to you and get amazing results with it. Think early jazz bands. The technologies back then were ridiculous according to modern standards, but the music had and still has some magic to it. And, unfortunately, the opposite is true quite often.
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yorolpal
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/04 22:02:12
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Well...if we're going to talk about totally subjective, abstract metaphysics then by all means let's talk "magic" which is no more than a semantical construct to explain the " unexplainable". By your definition it matters not whether what "works" is hardware, software or just plain undefinable "mojo". It's just "right". Right?
I mean it wouldn't matter if "what worked" was a $5000.00 piece of hardware or a freeware plugin some nimrod hipped you to...right? As long as it provided the "magic" to you...and your particular needs ands biases.
This, as an argument, has absolutely nothing to do with whether hardware solutions are intrinsically better than software solutions.
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Soundwise
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 07:24:34
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Yes! Not even die-hard multi-billion-dollar-a-piece hardware fans will deny that plugins can be used if they "just work", or "have mojo", or... you name it. The other point is, how faithfully plugins emulate their hardware counterparts. Here is where "plugins-are-great" folks will agree that software emulation is close, sometimes close enough to be useful, but almost never spot-on.
Peace!
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mettelus
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 09:58:44
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Plus, software plugins are easier to tote around if on the go. They are only as heavy as the computer loaded on; and they take up less physical space too. Even if not "perfect" they become highly appealing quickly.
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gswitz
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 11:01:36
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I think hardware emulation is similar for compressors as for other stuff. Would you use a guitar or a guitar synth?
Guitar synths may be good, but a guitar, well, it is the thing itself.
Synths are definitely convenient and midi is great.
I use TH3. I use plugins. And I use guitars and guitar amps and drums and real compressors.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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dwardzala
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 12:48:59
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☄ Helpfulby Soundwise 2016/07/05 13:23:19
Make music with what you have. It wasn't the LA-2A or the Neve console that made the music. It was the musicians and the recording engineers.
So what if that software emulation doesn't sound *exactly* like that vintage piece of gear. Guess what - John Q. Public, who is listening to the music doesn't even know what a compressor or tube pre is, let alone that you used a *god forbid* software emulation of it.
Bottom line if it sounds good - it is good, regardless of how you got there. And good doesn't have to mean exactly like X piece of vintage gear.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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Sycraft
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 12:57:35
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/07/09 14:09:52
gswitz
I think hardware emulation is similar for compressors as for other stuff. Would you use a guitar or a guitar synth? One thing I think too many people are missing though is that emulation is not what all, or even most, plugins are about. So we can argue about how accurate an emulation can be, but one of the great things about plugins is they don't have to be bounded by the limitations of hardware and that can be very desirable. You don't always want the sound or characteristics of a specific pace of hardware, sometimes you just have something you want to do and software may make it much easier. Particularly for precision work. Like you have something where you need to EQ a narrow range of frequencies, and you need to maintain phase linearity. Well that is essentially impossible in the analogue world. Building really steep filters is difficult enough and you can't do linear phase. However a software EQ can do that easily. Emulation of physical gear is not always, or perhaps even often, the goal.
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tlw
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 14:30:11
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As far as I'm concerned, plugins and hardware each have their role.
I don't like digital guitar amp emulators because I find them lacking in something, though at times I can't quite put my finger on what. One day I can set one up and think "actually, that sounds pretty good", go back to it the next day and think "that sounds horrible". I don't get this problem with amps, or at least so rarely that I can put it down to a "bad tone day."
I can set up in Amplitube an exact "replica" of hardware I have and regularly use, and it sounds, at best, not much like the original. As one example I have an early Orange Tiny Terror, one of the first batch of 1,000 that were made in Korea. It is quite different in tone, saturation characteristics and response to the "official" Amplitube model. I like Fuzz Face circuits, but they can't be accurately modelled because the guitar itself is part of their circuit, which is why they don't work correctly unless they're the first thing the guitar "sees". The circuit responds very differently depending on the guitar pickups and tone/volume control settings because the overall input impedance the pedal sees changes. Something which emulations can't do.
Though I admit I have heard very good results from people who use amp and fx sims entirely. Jimi Hendrix sounded amazing using a Strat and a cranked Marshall, while all I get out of that setup is a thin, bright, grating noisey racket that makes me wince. What works for one person doesn't always work for someone else.
I use hardware analogue synths for the same reason - and because they, again, have something about them that's lacking in digital emulations. My microQ is a computer in a box, and computer-based synths can do similar things and I do use a couple of them for their digital quality. Another advantage I find in hardware analogue synths is that from a programming point of view they are much simpler than most software synths which makes getting the sound in my head out of them far easier.
Effects and processors however, are a different matter to sound generation sources. The D16 Deluxe Electric Mistress emulation, for example, isn't quite the same as my original, but close enough to use and has the advantage of less noise, the settings being reproducible and a more complex interface with more options. Same with delays and reverbs with the possible exception that a Fender valve reverb unit does mono spring reverb like nothing else, no emulation coming close to it (though Springage is pretty good).
To me it's all about picking the best tools available for the desired result, bearing in mind I can run as many 1176s, Fairchild comps or Pultec EQs as I want in the box, but buying one good example of each would cost a fortune.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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Brian Walton
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 16:27:24
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cclarry
I disagree..there IS magic in hardware...
Just like, no matter how hard they've tried, they
just can't seem to get "real tube" sound...they
are getting better at it...but not "There" yet...
The magic is in electrons flowing through wires and
circuits and Diaphragms and etc...into a multi-thousand
dollar console and then, either on to "Magnetic Tape",
which they have yet to really "nail", or into a console and
then back out to outboard gear, and then back to the console
and then back out again to a PC...etc...
ALL of those variables, and "Chaos Theory" are what make
for a great deal of the "sound", which an algorithm simply
isn't going to reproduce. And THAT is one of the reasons
that certain consoles are "revered"...
The MEER THOUGHT that a $50 plugin is going to "give that
to you" is ridiculous IMO...
HALF of the magic in the plugins comes from the "gear that
was used to sample it", and not from the "algorithm" per se...
but that's not going to replace "hardware" or they'd just stop
building Hardware, and STOP USING IT...common sense...as Plugins are
dirt cheap...
Most people can't tell the difference between an actual tube and and a Kemper recorded using the exact same profile setup. A number of blind tests suggest this. Outside of your Tube Amp argument there are also things that can be done in the box with plugs that you just can't do in the analog world. What hardware do you have that can do what melodyne 4 studio does? Also look at reverb. What hardware are you using that sounds as good as what you can get in the box these days? You probably think vinyl sounds better than high res digital despite the fact it is proven that Vinyl has a lower dynamic range and the fact that click and pops are all over even the best sources as it is inherent in the process, the list goes on.
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cclarry
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 20:44:09
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Brian Walton
Most people can't tell the difference between an actual tube and and a Kemper recorded using the exact same profile setup. A number of blind tests suggest this.
Outside of your Tube Amp argument there are also things that can be done in the box with plugs that you just can't do in the analog world. What hardware do you have that can do what melodyne 4 studio does?
Also look at reverb. What hardware are you using that sounds as good as what you can get in the box these days?
You probably think vinyl sounds better than high res digital despite the fact it is proven that Vinyl has a lower dynamic range and the fact that click and pops are all over even the best sources as it is inherent in the process, the list goes on.
This is about "sound", not functionality... there are many things that plugins can do because they are not as limited by the constraints of hardware... In regards to Reverb, there is NO PLUGIN that sounds like a Bricasti or an LX480 hardware unit... There is NO AMP SIM that sounds like a "real mic'd amp"...they sound good, but not the same... The Kemper is kind of a hybrid, as it is both Hardware and Software. But a sampled Amp will not sound precisely the same as the "real" amp that has been mic'd, as the entire "chain", and the hardware in that chain ALL impact the quality of the sound...and it's far better to "go to tape" with a good tone, then to have to tweak the crap out of it to get there with plugins... YMMV
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Brian Walton
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Re: Am I to believe
2016/07/05 21:49:28
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cclarry
Brian Walton
Most people can't tell the difference between an actual tube and and a Kemper recorded using the exact same profile setup. A number of blind tests suggest this.
Outside of your Tube Amp argument there are also things that can be done in the box with plugs that you just can't do in the analog world. What hardware do you have that can do what melodyne 4 studio does?
Also look at reverb. What hardware are you using that sounds as good as what you can get in the box these days?
You probably think vinyl sounds better than high res digital despite the fact it is proven that Vinyl has a lower dynamic range and the fact that click and pops are all over even the best sources as it is inherent in the process, the list goes on.
This is about "sound", not functionality... there are many things that plugins can do
because they are not as limited by the constraints of hardware...
In regards to Reverb, there is NO PLUGIN that sounds like a Bricasti or an LX480 hardware
unit...
There is NO AMP SIM that sounds like a "real mic'd amp"...they sound good, but not the same...
The Kemper is kind of a hybrid, as it is both Hardware and Software. But a sampled Amp will not
sound precisely the same as the "real" amp that has been mic'd, as the entire "chain", and the hardware
in that chain ALL impact the quality of the sound...and it's far better to "go to tape" with a good
tone, then to have to tweak the crap out of it to get there with plugins...
YMMV
I don't think you really get it. The Kemper is a computer, period. The Bricasti or LC480 are also computers. They are NOT analog hardware. All three are no different than an interface into a computer. Here I thought you were talking strictly about Tubes and capacitors, transformers being magical. Apparently your ears just want it to be in a box that doesn't have an 21inch computer monitor hooked up to it. The Kemper samples the chain...amp, cab + mic, this is why there are so many profiles. And while I get to play through one of the most valuable and best sounding tube amps that has ever been created. I'm also the first one to tell you that in a blind listening test you can't always pick out the real thing from something like the Kemper, which is just a computer profile of the real thing. And I'd disagree, there are plugins that sound like those reverbs, they have done convolution impulses from both units that you wouldn't know the difference in a mix in a blind test.
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