Helpful ReplyAmazing synth : -work by Vangelis

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Rbh
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2017/10/15 06:59:46 (permalink)

Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis

The you tube links to the most amazing synth I've ever seen. Vangelis playing a real time, full throddle Synth Score. I've never seen or heard of these Modules he's using - anyone have a clue about these?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zzkalHmY10
post edited by Rbh - 2017/10/16 01:55:32

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/15 07:12:46 (permalink)
That link is broken (it loses the colon in https:\\) so here's another embedded video for everyone!
 


 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/15 08:09:45 (permalink)
*Pfft...*  Easy stuff! 
 


 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/15 08:28:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/10/15 10:35:37
It is not a synth but a system.  Called Direct I think.  All those modules are special controllers that have been custom made for him.  The pedals on the ground all connect to it as well.  There is a room full of modules that this thing is actually talking to that are making the sounds.  It is just a very advanced controller.  He wanted the ability to create a lot of music live while the ideas flow.  It is using midi to do all of this too. 
 
There was a smaller piece of commercial hardware which the inventors did put out for a while which did this sort of scaled down but they are very rare to find now. 
 
He did a whole album using this setup and it is called Direct as well. 

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/15 18:17:00 (permalink)
Just a joy to watch that. Anyone know what that crazy shorthand was all about? Never seen that before. I also noticed he seems to be using RADAR, as opposed to SONAR. Radar is a dedicated hardware/software system for recording. I know of 2 studios that have gone with this system. Both citing Pro Tools as being too unreliable and 2" tape as being too expensive to operate.

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/15 18:52:19 (permalink)
Well, maybe RADAR works above ground better? 

 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/15 20:44:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ampfixer 2017/10/15 21:00:41
Yes I think he likes RADAR as well because of its relative simplicity and ease of use as a multitrack recording system.  Many have said that the RADAR front end A to D also sounds very very good too.  It has been known to be used in some setups just for the conversion alone and used in conjunction with some DAW's. 
 
The shorthand system he devised is to be able to see what instruments he is going to be addressing.  Quite a good system because of a simple squiggle or marking he knows exactly what instruments he is talking to.  Those boxes he is selecting buttons on are glorified program change senders I guess. The pedals all being continuous controllers as well of course. 
 
The whole concept behind Direct is rather special and unique and the fellows that invented it are very clever.  I did look into it rather deeply at one stage especially the hardware they designed for it.  There is a unit that was released but they are very hard to find now because only a few were made. 

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 00:21:35 (permalink)
I have seen a picture of the room with the synths in it too.  Now that was serious.  So he likes hardware and the immediacy of it.  Racks of modules and keyboards from all makers.  With quite a few larger mixers in there summing all the individual synths to stems and the stems coming into him in his room on a smaller mixing console.  That way he could balance stems very easily etc.. He has used this setup live a few times too.  I think if you hunt down some of the YouTube videos of various performances he did, then you will find he was using Direct.  Don't you love that name Direct.  It sort of sums it up well.  
 
He uses the RADAR multitrack recording system to instantly record and then he is back into playing. The way the system works enables him to built up the music within the multitrack recording environment. It involves the use of the Zyklus MPS-1 Midi Performance System.
 
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/zyklus/mps-1-midi-performance-system-g14877/
 
The controller is especially designed for him as well as the switch boxes.  He is known not to like computers and has hence developed a system that does not use them.  He can work with others though that can work with computers very effectively. And they would be using DAW's.
 
What I would like to see is the block diagram of the whole setup.  I bet it can be done in software.  They can do everything else. The inventors much have been at least thinking about it, or they should.

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 01:55:01 (permalink)
That makes a lot more sense if the modules he's hands on with are controllers, the brand name on them is a little hard to make out in the video - but it looks like VC x Audio -  I was assuming that they were integrated sound / sample modules. It looks as though he basically has all sounds live and he's picking instruments simply with patch switching and volume controllers.  Amazing stuff !
 
Thanks for fixing the link Craig B

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 12:31:46 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
...
The shorthand system he devised is to be able to see what instruments he is going to be addressing.  Quite a good system because of a simple squiggle or marking he knows exactly what instruments he is talking to.  Those boxes he is selecting buttons on are glorified program change senders I guess. The pedals all being continuous controllers as well of course. 
...

 
I think it also tells him what to play ... the V probably suggesting a sequence going down at that point and > probably meaning increasing this or that ... and the dots probably mean how much of his fingers go into it, or similar.
 
The schematic, is actually his "score" ... you juts have to look at it differently and work out what the symbols stand for ... but copy that and then go listen to the piece without the visual and only looking at that piece of paper ... in due time, you will be able to break it down.
 
I did this with a painting by Vina White here in the Pacific NW at a psychic show in Seattle in 1987 and Herb Ernst did a magnificent piece off that painting ... which I put in front of him, and simply said that the painting was the score, and the lines could be the staff and the dots were the notes ... and he put together a massive piece about 10 minutes long, that is simply magnanimous and far-out and totally excellent .... and way more progressive and neat than a lot of things around. I sure would have liked to do this to Edgar Froese, Jean Michel Jarre and Mike Oldfield! People that immediately synch into a "concept" of the whole picture and drawing, and analyze it likewise. It's like looking at a painting ... go to the Chicago Art Institute and get blasted by that huge thing at the entrance ... El Greco, if I remember right! Now think keyboards and what to play for each bit and piece. Then go look at Guernica and see what you can decipher ... you'll go crazy, but it will come!
 
You adjust to what you "see", and "want to do" and that schematic helps you know what your hands can do at any time while playing it ... and those pedals ... his feet have EYES?
 

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 16:42:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jamesg1213 2017/10/16 17:21:38
I was once approached by a midget wearing a fishbowl on his head at a trade show in Irkutsk for folding chairs made out of recyclable spaghetti and footballs.  I immediately determined the ancestry of his brown seaweed ankle bracelet from my vast experience in archaeological Askimet meditation, most of which took place in a secret outdoor cafe nestled between the French coast and a bean-bag manufacturing plant.  I should note that there is something very questionable with the semi-white, Brazilian hot chocolate that the waitress, Sully, serves...  My initial guess as a bourgeois connoisseur of fancy mauve-tinged fruits and subtle kidney-colored vegetables leaned towards an inefficiency in the temperature of the base liquid. I also found it disturbing when flakes of her Easter Island meets Coney Island tattoos would fall into the canary minestrone and ultra-chrome soup.  In any event, back to Nepal where I met with a frog pudding doctor selling yo-yo's from a spinning tea cup.  Since we had both seen the same documentary about left-handed tobacco beetles that favor the color marble blue, there was instant rapport.  We talked for hours about the seven alternate endings to Shakespeare's "Transformation of Bleu Cheese and Ferret Gravy" that was never published.  You should have seen the multitude of sonically-infused, ozone-depleted seashells that made up the better part of the entrance to the famous Omnibus dining hall!  Invigorating to say the least.

 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 17:14:55 (permalink)
Damn... Forgot "Hi,"

 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 17:47:40 (permalink)
Let me know when you have dinner near my neighborhood cuz I want to be there

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 17:52:38 (permalink)
I've seen this video a number of times during the years and I've never been able to get a solid answer regarding where the footage is from, exactly what it depicts and how accurate the audio is when he's playing. People will say "of course that's him playing, he's a genius" but  I'm not sure. A piece like that has a lot going on, and regardless of the complexity or ingenuity of the equipment he's using, he still only has ten fingers with which to play notes. I mean there are parts of that audio you can see he's definitely not playing with his fingers (e.g. a harp like run at 4:08), so what exactly is he doing here? Is he playing some parts along with a recording? Are there other sequenced parts which are triggered as he's playing? Is he just miming along to a finished recording? Too many questions.....

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 17:55:31 (permalink)
Sharke calls Milli Vangelis? 

 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 17:58:46 (permalink)
More like Villi Vangelli

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 18:03:05 (permalink)
I imagine all those foot pedals are the key, he's turning those on and off like crazy under the desk, bringing different sounds in and out.

 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/16 20:24:08 (permalink)


 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/17 01:02:21 (permalink)
I think the squiggles on the boxes themselves represent the sounds. (the displays are also indicating the sounds) Because he is rotating those bars and selecting the buttons below and the sounds change.  As there are 12 there it seems he is addressing at least 12 synth sections.  From the top at least.  The pedals are obviously addressing more sounds underneath.
 
What he is holding on the clipboard in his hand I think might represent the score.
 
What is interesting though is those two large white boxes to his right next to what looks like a Korg Radius synth. Not sure what they are. Could be an advanced version of the Zyklus maybe still not sure.  They don't seem to be doing much during this performance though.  The RADAR system also seems idle as well.  This performance looks totally live to me. 
 
And yes despite the technology he is still a great musician and player too.

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/17 06:24:59 (permalink)
I bet Pedro probably likes Merzbow! 

 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/17 14:02:08 (permalink)
craigb
I bet Pedro probably likes Merzbow! 




Of course you would not believe me and the story behind the music with Herb Ernst. You ought to reach him, and ask about it, and if you want to hear a recording of it, I have to ask the artist lady if I can share it, which I can do privately at home, but not in any other way, at this time. 
 
You have no sense of adventure and experimentation, and anything anyone says is wrong, until you see it in the tube. Too bad you never got to see the psychic experimentation I did with actors at UCSB ... they were really good and the results even better, but you don't believe in that stuff and how it affects and helps "creativity". You think creativity is looking at your DAW and putting/stretching another note!
 
It's not a matter of "liking". It's a matter of making sense of the sequence of noises and its artistry. Or you can take the sound effects library and a pile driver and loop it ... lots of talent for you Craig, since you do not read things here, and only find silly comments.
 
FAUST, for the most part was a lot of noise.
 
Ax Gernrich of Guru Guru in his early albums had all the noise a guitar could make that Jimi also had in concert that all producers in America made sure you did not hear, because it was not a song! On his solo albums, they are even weirder with a banjo and strange instruments.
 
The drummer in Grobbschnitt (Eroc) also has a lot of weirdness and noise in his solo albums, and they are fun to listen to.
 
Or, if you get bored, there is always MFrogg (Jean Yves Labat) that had a lot of fun with Rodd Tundgroon and in at least one cut it is all about swearing in echo and distortion for your delectation. 
 
Another noise artist, and sometimes mostly sound effects is Ron Geesin, and his albums are always fun to listen to ... but at times a bit weird, as you can not see any logic, other than just experimentation, it seems.
 
Eduard Artemiev was doing "noise" as music long before you even heard of Jarre, Vangelis or Tangerine Dream.
 
Bernard Herrman, used Theramins and other new electronic "things" to create some sounds for many of his sci-fi films.
 
Soundtracks like "Forbidden Planet", and a few others had so much "noise" as to actually make folks uncomfortable with the soundtrack. 
 
George Harrison's Lectronic Sounds is more about the noise than it is anything else ... totally experimental, but at least you don't hear two folks having sex in the background, like his friend did later! That's a few too many sounds for YO haters!
 
The only "noise" I object to, is the one that is often considered "classical music", and it has no feeling, no flow, and no show, and it is just like some of your comments ... no sense or pride or prejudice ... just senseless.
 
When you want to look at "noise" in music, my collection is open for you to look at ... ohh, did I mention early CAN and even Holger Czukay?
 
I thought you knew your music, and even my listening habits, including my history of listening, now for 45 years! Maybe you think I only listen to top ten songs and have no idea what albums or MUSIC is really all about! You better look in the mirror, boy!

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/17 16:35:31 (permalink)
 

Here ya go Pedro!  This is actually one of his more musical albums.  See if I was right! 

 
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/19 01:31:19 (permalink)
Moshkito
craigb
I bet Pedro probably likes Merzbow! 




Of course you would not believe me and the story behind the music with Herb Ernst. You ought to reach him, and ask about it, and if you want to hear a recording of it, I have to ask the artist lady if I can share it, which I can do privately at home, but not in any other way, at this time. 
 
You have no sense of adventure and experimentation, and anything anyone says is wrong, until you see it in the tube. Too bad you never got to see the psychic experimentation I did with actors at UCSB ... they were really good and the results even better, but you don't believe in that stuff and how it affects and helps "creativity". You think creativity is looking at your DAW and putting/stretching another note!
 
It's not a matter of "liking". It's a matter of making sense of the sequence of noises and its artistry. Or you can take the sound effects library and a pile driver and loop it ... lots of talent for you Craig, since you do not read things here, and only find silly comments.
 
FAUST, for the most part was a lot of noise.
 
Ax Gernrich of Guru Guru in his early albums had all the noise a guitar could make that Jimi also had in concert that all producers in America made sure you did not hear, because it was not a song! On his solo albums, they are even weirder with a banjo and strange instruments.
 
The drummer in Grobbschnitt (Eroc) also has a lot of weirdness and noise in his solo albums, and they are fun to listen to.
 
Or, if you get bored, there is always MFrogg (Jean Yves Labat) that had a lot of fun with Rodd Tundgroon and in at least one cut it is all about swearing in echo and distortion for your delectation. 
 
Another noise artist, and sometimes mostly sound effects is Ron Geesin, and his albums are always fun to listen to ... but at times a bit weird, as you can not see any logic, other than just experimentation, it seems.
 
Eduard Artemiev was doing "noise" as music long before you even heard of Jarre, Vangelis or Tangerine Dream.
 
Bernard Herrman, used Theramins and other new electronic "things" to create some sounds for many of his sci-fi films.
 
Soundtracks like "Forbidden Planet", and a few others had so much "noise" as to actually make folks uncomfortable with the soundtrack. 
 
George Harrison's Lectronic Sounds is more about the noise than it is anything else ... totally experimental, but at least you don't hear two folks having sex in the background, like his friend did later! That's a few too many sounds for YO haters!
 
The only "noise" I object to, is the one that is often considered "classical music", and it has no feeling, no flow, and no show, and it is just like some of your comments ... no sense or pride or prejudice ... just senseless.
 
When you want to look at "noise" in music, my collection is open for you to look at ... ohh, did I mention early CAN and even Holger Czukay?
 
I thought you knew your music, and even my listening habits, including my history of listening, now for 45 years! Maybe you think I only listen to top ten songs and have no idea what albums or MUSIC is really all about! You better look in the mirror, boy!


you're a psychic now? smh.  You do realize the level of narcissism it takes to write these lengthy tropes don't you?  Alas, it takes a good level of narcissism to believe the song one is about to write is worth being born.  I don't use narcissism for that, rather pretense.  PRETENSE is where all creative ideas begin.  Carry on my little pet.

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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/19 02:45:22 (permalink)
Moshkito
craigb
I bet Pedro probably likes Merzbow! 




Of course you would not believe me and the story behind the music with Herb Ernst. You ought to reach him, and ask about it, and if you want to hear a recording of it, I have to ask the artist lady if I can share it, which I can do privately at home, but not in any other way, at this time. 
 
You have no sense of adventure and experimentation, and anything anyone says is wrong, until you see it in the tube. Too bad you never got to see the psychic experimentation I did with actors at UCSB ... they were really good and the results even better, but you don't believe in that stuff and how it affects and helps "creativity". You think creativity is looking at your DAW and putting/stretching another note!
 
It's not a matter of "liking". It's a matter of making sense of the sequence of noises and its artistry. Or you can take the sound effects library and a pile driver and loop it ... lots of talent for you Craig, since you do not read things here, and only find silly comments.
 
FAUST, for the most part was a lot of noise.
 
Ax Gernrich of Guru Guru in his early albums had all the noise a guitar could make that Jimi also had in concert that all producers in America made sure you did not hear, because it was not a song! On his solo albums, they are even weirder with a banjo and strange instruments.
 
The drummer in Grobbschnitt (Eroc) also has a lot of weirdness and noise in his solo albums, and they are fun to listen to.
 
Or, if you get bored, there is always MFrogg (Jean Yves Labat) that had a lot of fun with Rodd Tundgroon and in at least one cut it is all about swearing in echo and distortion for your delectation. 
 
Another noise artist, and sometimes mostly sound effects is Ron Geesin, and his albums are always fun to listen to ... but at times a bit weird, as you can not see any logic, other than just experimentation, it seems.
 
Eduard Artemiev was doing "noise" as music long before you even heard of Jarre, Vangelis or Tangerine Dream.
 
Bernard Herrman, used Theramins and other new electronic "things" to create some sounds for many of his sci-fi films.
 
Soundtracks like "Forbidden Planet", and a few others had so much "noise" as to actually make folks uncomfortable with the soundtrack. 
 
George Harrison's Lectronic Sounds is more about the noise than it is anything else ... totally experimental, but at least you don't hear two folks having sex in the background, like his friend did later! That's a few too many sounds for YO haters!
 
The only "noise" I object to, is the one that is often considered "classical music", and it has no feeling, no flow, and no show, and it is just like some of your comments ... no sense or pride or prejudice ... just senseless.
 
When you want to look at "noise" in music, my collection is open for you to look at ... ohh, did I mention early CAN and even Holger Czukay?
 
I thought you knew your music, and even my listening habits, including my history of listening, now for 45 years! Maybe you think I only listen to top ten songs and have no idea what albums or MUSIC is really all about! You better look in the mirror, boy!






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Moshkito
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/21 16:22:42 (permalink)
craigb
 

Here ya go Pedro!  This is actually one of his more musical albums.  See if I was right! 




HELDON is what this reminds me off. Sometimes, it is really hard to listen to, but the first 4 or 5 albums are almost a complete assault of noise with a guitar and other things.
 
Merzbow is OK for my tastes, and I might even spring for a few CD's. 

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#25
Moshkito
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/21 16:26:05 (permalink)
eph221
 
...
you're a psychic now? smh. 

 
Never claimed that. However, I was really good at using a lot of the so-called "psychic" this and that and mix it in acting, theater and film, and specially writing. I am of the opinion that the best use of that ability, is in the arts, and not telling you what kind of person you are, and what not. It could even be stated that I picked up a lot of those ideas from the Carlos Castaneda books, and the truth of the matter, is/was, that many of those bits and pieces worked, which changes the content and idea of what those books are about, and what people think about him and his books. And the book about dreaming, is the best on the subject EVER written ... but you wouldn't be interested. They probably scare you to death, no?
 
Craig knows I meant no harm, or foul, and he knows I listen to music. You, on the other hand, would rather comment on nothing, than the meat of the subject!
 
Such talent! And you think yourself a musician and artist? Putting down fellow artists for their work?

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#26
craigb
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/21 19:31:00 (permalink)
All I can say is, whether you believe in psychics or not, they can be a bit disturbing to be around!  I took a few PhD classes with Toni Attell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0040997/?ref_=tt_cl_t6) who not only was a professional mime and actress (including being Robin William's acting coach), but a Hollywood psychic.  She was my work partner for two classes and the level of accuracy (with me and others) was VERY scary.  We were at the annual Hypnotherapy conference in a hotel that was also hosting a tech. conference the same week.  We came out of one session and a guy (in his 40's) at a tech. booth made the cheeky comment "So you're with of the woo woo's, eh?"  Tony's reply after a brief second pause was "Hmm... You're probably still blaming yourself for your sister's death when she was 13, aren't you?"  He turned completely white and mumbled "I've got to go..."  A couple of hours later we went by the booth and he wasn't there.  The girl that was there said he left immediately after the comment to go up to his hotel room and hasn't been back since.  Then she asked how Tony knew about the incident with the guy's sister, since he'd never mentioned it before.  Tony felt bad but told me the information just comes.  I found it can also be unnerving for her too because when others are around her, they sometimes get personal information about her (I did)!

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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eph221
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/21 21:23:04 (permalink)
ya, ya whatever.  Sting(y) and Jung had it right.  It's more a synchrony of various data that contains a grain of truth.  If that guides you in your life, them who am I to question it.  I'll stick with dice and god (and Bapu)

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#28
Moshkito
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/22 15:16:07 (permalink)
eph221
ya, ya whatever.  Sting(y) and Jung had it right.  It's more a synchrony of various data that contains a grain of truth.  If that guides you in your life, them who am I to question it.  I'll stick with dice and god (and Bapu)




There is a lot more of this kind of stuff in music, than we're willing to understand or accept. In fact, just about all of the arts. I think (I THINK) that the "slower" one does these things (like painting a picture, or composing on a DAW and changing everything each and every time you look at it), the sloppier it gets, and in the end, the trick is to learn to interpret and understand the message when it arrives, and that is not something that we apply ourselves to a whole lot, and it is very visible in relationships.
 
The one thing I like to say is ... show us your beauty ... not your crass. All of the arts, are special in one way or another and how one does it, is not as important as the end product that others can hear and perceive in their own way ... but if the product and story changes each minute, your ability and mine stops being helpful and usable.
 
This was the biggest trick about working with actors, and teaching them to have enough comfort and trust in their knowledge of the lines they had to deliver, that they could do this anywhere in their sleep and in the kitchen, differently of course, but it would still apply.
 
I've always tried, and have done it a couple of times, to use this with musicians, but of all the artist types, the toughest are musicians, and I think it is because they are too married to their numerology of the notes, instead of the feeling of the notes. Thus, seeing someone making diagrams for the music, and Mike Oldfield even has a picture of one that he and Mr. Thunderclap Newman did of one of his pieces, so they would be able to put it together properly and correctly the way Mike envisioned it, while recording it. It's in his biography.
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111098
 
All in all, I would think for a Vangelis, Edgar Froese, Mike Oldfield, or Ryuichi Sakamoto, to explain their "score" is probably too difficult, and a diagram is probably better. They can likely tell you what they will do in each of those details ... is my experience. I kinda do the same in my dreams, with some writing, though when the time comes and the basic thing starts, it takes a life of its own, but the characterization and basic details all come out just fine, even if dressed in a different sweater, and with jeans instead of pants!
 
See, music is just as good for these things as any other art!
 
 

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#29
eph221
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Re: Amazing synth : -work by Vangelis 2017/10/22 17:19:57 (permalink)
Have you learned nothing?  Academic (nuanced) narratives aren't any truer than simple straightforward narratives.  They just may sound like it to some (not enough to win the game btw).  Get over yourselves!

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#30
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