i re-edited my post- just confirm thats it,
if it is- then they've been notified.
sorry for your troubles holmes.

if its any consolation prize,its bum'in me out to.

im even more apologetic i didnt get here sooner so you didnt have to go through this intriquete discription.
when i read the title i knew exactly what you were talking about.
 
nice work on the photo lay out,i may try and attach the link to this thread  to my original report as youve made a spectacular diagram.

sharke

Bub


I just checked it Sharke, it does the same thing here in regards to when it highlights the entire clip, and just part of it.

If I Lasso all the notes, it highlights the entire clip and turns it gray.

If I Lasso a few notes, it only shades the area of the clip where I selected the notes.

I tried to copy and paste all the notes to the end, and it extended the clip.

I tried to copy and paste some of the notes to the end, and it extended the clip.

I right clicked on the clip and made it a Groove Clip and selected all of the notes, pasted them, and it made a second clip.

I right clicked on the clip and made it a Groove Clip and selected some of the notes, pasted them, and it made a second clip, only shorter.

Making the clip a Groove Clip is the only way I can duplicate your problem of a second clip being created.

Thanks for trying that out Bub. A couple of things:


In the first case, when you tried to copy all of the notes into the second half of the clip, why would it extend the clip? The notes in question (in my diagram anyway) are no longer than one bar long, so pasting them into the second bar shouldn't extend the clip any longer than it is. 


Also, if selecting all of the notes results in the entire clip being selected, I don't see how that wouldn't result in a whole new clip being created when you paste them. After all, when you hit CTRL-C to copy the notes at that point, it copies whatever the selection is. And at that point, the whole clip is selected. So this is what should happen:


1) You select all of the notes
2) The whole clip is selected (as shown above)
3) You hit CTRL-C to copy the notes
4) The current selection, which is the whole clip, is copied to the clipboard
5) You hit CTRL-V and the whole clip is pasted.

Ah!

I don't use Copy/Paste Ctrl-C/V.

I Lasso the notes, hold Ctrl and drag them.

I've never used Copy/Paste to do what you're doing. Not saying that's wrong, but that's not how I do it. Just goes to show how much of an effect workflow has on these kinds of things!

Excellent!

It seems to me, if you use your method of Ctrl-C/V ... what your seeing is how it should work.

It is interesting that when I make it a Groove Clip that I see the same results using Alt/Drag as you do on regular clips using Copy/Paste.

Cool! :)

The wife is nagging me to go to bed so I have to sign off now. I'll check back tomorrow to see how things are going. I've been getting in to midi a lot more lately and I'm very curious to see how this turns out.

Goodnight.

Bub.

1st - Not sure how you're getting a clip with 1/2 of it empty like that. A clip should only be as long as the notes in it.

2nd - You can "Bounce To Clips" to shrinkwrap it first, then copy & paste it to the next measure.

3rd - Try Ctrl+Alt+V and select the area in red below:


 
This last one is achange in behavior from previous versions so it caught me off guard at first.
 

Bub


It seems to me, if you use your method of Ctrl-C/V ... what your seeing is how it should work.

The odd thing, to me, was in the selection behavior, which you confirmed, i.e. the whole clip being selected if you lasso all the notes, while only part of the clip being highlighted if you don't. Seems to me that when you're lassoing notes, you're being specific about exactly what you want to select, i.e. just the notes. If you wanted to select the whole clip, you'd just select the clip. 

Or do what I said earlier and "Apply Trimming"

Derp... I could have just looked at the image of the Paste Special box posted above.

Ugh, just woke up. Need tea.

;-p

tbosco


sharke,  I get the same behavior when I try your experiment.  However, I guess I wonder WHY you would want to do this.  In your 4-note example, such as a kick drum, why not just have the 4 notes, and be sure the clip ends at the end of the 4th beat.  Quantize as desired.  Then, to copy, you have a coupole of choices-  you can select the clip and Copy/Paste using various methods, or you could just Groove Clip it.  And it is very accurate and correct to do it this way.  Of course you could then Bounce To Clip to make 1 clip out of the copied clips.

Am I missing something?  (This is similar to your other post about Clip Length with extended clip curtains IMO)  I don't know why you want to extend the curtains so much.  (My brother does this and I don't know why.)  It's cleaner to have the clip just contain data and no blank space (IMHO).

Good luck!

I think I already explained why I had blank space in the clip. Imagine you have a 2 bar kick pattern. You're not happy about the second bar, so you delete those notes. When I do that, Sonar doesn't resize the clip, it just leaves that second half blank. OK, so I figure I'll take the kicks from the first bar and paste them into the second bar. If you're working in the PRV, at that point you're not really thinking about clip sizes or anything like that. You just want to create your desired beat on the grid. So you would think you'd be able to just copy all of those kicks from the first part and paste them into the second half. 


Some people like to copy-drag, others prefer to set the time marker at the desired spot and paste. Apps generally have a number of ways of achieving the same thing. For instance, I select clips and hit Q to quantize, but other people might prefer to select it from the menu. They should all work the same way. If I'm in the PRV and select some notes, why should that select the entire clip? I don't want to select the clip in the track view, just the notes in the PRV. Sonar seems to be making an assumption that when you select all of the notes of a clip in the PRV, that you must want to select the whole clip as a unit. That's not always the case, which is what threw me. If I wanted to select the clip, I would just go to the track view and select it there. 


So note that I'm not surprised that pasting these notes resulted in a new clip - it's more that I'm surprised that selecting the notes in the PRV should cause the whole clip to be selected. 


As for clip length....horses for courses I guess. If I'm working on a EDM track that's all modular MIDI patterns, I much prefer to have all of my clips of even length. They just "slot together" more neatly, they look better and I guess it's a psychological thing. For instance, sometimes I'll take a 2 bar breakbeat pattern and slice it into 4 so that I can rearrange the pieces and come up with some variation. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when I take that clip and slice it into 4 equal pieces, I'm not left with 4 equal clips. Some of them are shorter and some of them are longer, depending on where Sonar has truncated them to get rid of empty space. In my opinion, there should be an option to turn off this automatic clip trimming. I'd rather be in charge of my own clip length. Again, we all work and think differently, and a good program should accommodate that. 

Bristol_Jonesey

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when I take that clip and slice it into 4 equal pieces, I'm not left with 4 equal clips. Some of them are shorter and some of them are longer, depending on where Sonar has truncated them to get rid of empty space

How are you splitting your clip up Sharke?


I just tried this on some random Midi Clip, using the "Split Repeatedly" section of the Split tool - and it creates shorter clips all of the same length.

I'm just using the split tool and doing it with Aim Assist and snap settings. How do you "split repeatedly" (sounds disgusting but never mind)?

sharke

Bristol_Jonesey

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when I take that clip and slice it into 4 equal pieces, I'm not left with 4 equal clips. Some of them are shorter and some of them are longer, depending on where Sonar has truncated them to get rid of empty space

How are you splitting your clip up Sharke?


I just tried this on some random Midi Clip, using the "Split Repeatedly" section of the Split tool - and it creates shorter clips all of the same length.

I'm just using the split tool and doing it with Aim Assist and snap settings. How do you "split repeatedly" (sounds disgusting but never mind)?

Select the clip, right click and select Split. This will open up a dialog box where there are several options to enhance your splitting experience.

Split repeatedly is cool but very limited. I wish you could select more defined values directly in the dialog. The lowest value is one measure IIRC. You can insert a bunch of markers and it will split repeatedly there but that more work.

Hmm... I just had a thought. I wonder if the guy who posted about Block Mode is aware of the Split Repeatedly feature.