Helpful Reply[Answered] How to record audio of an VST ?

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moonbooter
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2014/03/05 05:17:11 (permalink)

[Answered] How to record audio of an VST ?

Hi,
I try to record the direct audiosignal of an VST I play via MIDI within Sonar. I don´t mean to record the midi and freeze it later.
 
Is there a way to record it directly to an audio track?
 
Many thanks in advance !
post edited by Anderton - 2014/03/08 18:52:59
#1
dlion16
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 09:10:00 (permalink)
select the midi track and the audio track the vst is routed to, then bounce to tracks, tracks only. after that, you can freeze or archive the midi track.
 
what you're really doing is converting midi to audio...

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#2
RobMc
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 09:10:57 (permalink)
The track the VST's audio plays through can be treated as an Audio Track. If you freeze it, it'll also create an audio file of it in your project's audio folder.
 
You can import that into Sonar to have it solely as an audio source in your project.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 09:35:06 (permalink)
The question asked is not about freezing MIDI. The OP very clearly expresses it.
There are many situations when people want to record the real time audio of the VST. Many synths, for example, modulate the sound so that the same part sounds different every time.
 
IIRC there is a way to do it, but now I don't remember how it goes :o/
One of the active forumites has explained it a few times here, let's hope he sees this and chimes in. Of course, if your soundcard has "stereo mix" or "What U hear" setting, it most likely would record the real time audio, but it would also record the metronome
and all the backing tracks on the same track.
 
One way is routing the audio out through your interface and back but latency could be a problem or require extra steps.

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#4
RobMc
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 09:56:43 (permalink)
Freezing creates an audio track in your project folder. you don't need to go about sending it out and recording back into your device. You can just import the audio file created from the track being frozen.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 11:00:00 (permalink)
RobMc
Freezing creates an audio track in your project folder. you don't need to go about sending it out and recording back into your device. You can just import the audio file created from the track being frozen.




The OP knows it as well. Read the original question, please. The OP says he wants to record the VST audio in real time, i.e. he wants to capture the very moment he's tweaking the synth or whatever. 

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#6
scook
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 11:16:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby stickman393 2014/03/05 13:26:51
Place a note past the end of the song on the MIDI or instrument track
Enable "Echo On" on the MIDI or instrument track
Select the track(s) associated with the synth
Bounce the track(s) with "Fast Bounce" disabled, "Audible Bounce" and "Live Input" enabled
Play synth while the track(s) are being bounced.
 
Or use a VST recorder like HGS WAV Recorder and import the recorded wave
Or use a loopback through the audio interface
post edited by scook - 2014/03/05 11:27:19
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thebiglongy
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 13:20:12 (permalink)
It would be nice if Sonar allowed internal routing on the main mixer channels. This way all you would need to do is to set the output of your synth audio channel, to a new audiotrack, arm and record the audio on that one.

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slartabartfast
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/05 14:05:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby LaszloZoltan 2014/03/26 01:18:08
You can probably also do it with a virtual loopback in software using something like Virtual Audio Cable, but I have not tried that myself.
 
The only cogent argument I have heard for the lack of a flexible routing box in Sonar is that the current setup prevents inadvertent feedback loops. It seems to me that software could be written that would warn or avoid that without giving up on more useful routing options altogether.
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mettelus
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/08 18:38:22 (permalink)
I came across this same issue recently and had to resort to a physical loopback cable to achieve my needs (I was also recording a voice track at the same time). The bounce option prevented me from doing them both in one take, or at least I was unable to figure it out. The setup I used is explained more in this post.

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#10
Anderton
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/08 18:54:39 (permalink)
scook's approach is pretty cool.

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mudgel
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/08 19:49:09 (permalink)
DDMF make a range of plugins that allow you to create virtual connection between audio streams inside and outside of programs that will let you do this. There is also a MIDI router which allows you to split a MIDI stream to multiple VSTis.

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#12
moonbooter
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/15 12:40:07 (permalink)
First of all: Many thanks for all Your answers and suggestions. In my view the only solutions is to use a loop-back-device. I can use this with my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, but it also supports one (!) virtual adapter to do this.
 
The idea is and was to record several (8x2) virtual channels of my Native Instrumenst Maschine 2 directly into Sonar while performing live with the scenes. And that parallel to the other additional tracks running in Sonar. In my eyes this is the best and easiest way to transform audio from the Maschine world into Sonar. I need some more tracks (8x2) if I have to cut out some errors or do some fades and so on. 
I will give the Virtual Audio Cable a try and let You know how and if it works!
 
Thnaks again
 
moonbooter.de
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Splat
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/16 19:55:57 (permalink)

Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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moonbooter
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/17 15:27:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/03/17 15:59:21
 
 
SOLUTION
 
Hi, I played around with some ideas from this forum and I found some different solution. The third one is too complicate to use it daily, but it let You record a bunch of tracks simultaniously without any re-encoding or D/A-A/D conversion in 48/24.
 
Solution 1:
Use an integrated loopback device, if Your audiodevice supports this. In my case my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 supports only one with 2 Channels, but other devices (ESI ESP.. maybe?) supports up to 8 and more channels for direct loop-back recording.
 
Solution 2:
Via hardwire: I route 4 stereo-outs from NI Maschine to the 8 ins of my adat-interface (Behringer ADA800), which are connected directly via wire to the 8 ins of the interface. Not the best solution (noise, latency), but easy to handle. Maybe it´s also possible to connect the adat-out with the adat-in via optical cable .. ? I don´t know.
 
Solution 3 (best but complicated):
I installed Virtual Audio Cable (VCA) Software Version 4.13 (!)
I created 9 virtual channels (set to 48kHz to 48kHz) in VCA
I installed ASIO4ALL and activate the 9 corresponding virtual devices as the main asio-device in Sonar X3
I added Maschine 2 (or any other plugin) as a VST in Sonar and set the groups/sounds to different External Outs 1-8 (or more if You need)
I use 8 Stereo-tracks with input Machine EXT-1, EXT-2,... EXT-8 and output the VCA outputs 1.1, 2.1, 3.1, ... to 8.1 in Sonar. This tracks has obviously no record-button.
I added 8 additional (!!) audiotracks using each of the 8 VCA channels 1.1, 2.1, 3.1, ... to 8.1 as input of the tracks.
I open 9 instances of the Audio Reaper and route channel 1 to 9, 2 to 9, 3 to 9, .... 8 to 9
I route channel 9 to the real hardware audiodevice (in my case the Saffire Pro 40) with the last (9th) instance of Audio Reaper). You need to do this because You need to listen to the sum of all tracks on Your real audiodevice! Don´t forget: Sonar is still working with ASIO using only VIRTUAL devices.
Now I arm the 8 additional tracks for recording, start record, perform on Machine and all 8 tracks (or up to 16) are recorded directly as waves into the 8 stereotracks. And this in realtime. There´s no gap in this recording on my system. If You have some, simply select all final tracks and drag them to zero-position.
 
I know that this last solution is complicated, but it works. For sure I wish Sonar would directly support such virtual channels or the opinion to records vst´s directly...
Hope this helps
 
Bernd
moonbooter.de
 
 
 
 
#15
mettelus
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/17 16:00:24 (permalink)
OMG... that Solution 3 is definitely worth a feature request!! And I thought I was having issues looping back just one thing.

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sharke
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/17 16:35:22 (permalink)
This should definitely be a feature in Sonar. For the life of me I cannot imagine why it's not possible. The problem with scook's live input solution is that you cannot access the UI of the VST in question while you're doing it. There are times when you need to be able to click at things with the mouse while recording. For example, there's a Reaktor groovebox I use which has mute buttons on each track which cannot be automated. It would be nice to be able to bring elements in and out during the recording.

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mettelus
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/17 18:44:04 (permalink)
I submitted a feature request for this:
 
"Subject - Virtual Routing within SONAR
 
Two recent threads have been posted regarding capturing VSTi outputs into a track while recording. In my situation, I was doing a Z3TA+2 demonstration, and was unable to record tweaking Z3TA+2 while also recording a voice over track from within SONAR. My solution required a physical loopback cable on my interface (http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3002092). The similar thread included setting up even more loopback paths for Maschine 2 and the best solution was even more complicated than mine (http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3008758).
 
There are 3rd party virtual cabling tools available, but they are limited in functionality. Having this enabled inside of SONAR would be a much more powerful solution and add dynamics to the software. I have read several posts (specific to Maschine) where this feature being present within SONAR would be the solution.
 
Please consider this feature for future improvements to SONAR."

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Paul P
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/17 19:45:20 (permalink)
moonbooter
Solution 3 (best but complicated):
I installed Virtual Audio Cable (VCA) Software Version 4.13 (!)
I created 9 virtual channels (set to 48kHz to 48kHz) in VCA
I installed ASIO4ALL and activate the 9 corresponding virtual devices as the main asio-device in Sonar X3
 



Glad you got things working to your taste.  Why do you need ASIO4ALL?  You realise that it is not an ASIO driver, just a wrapper for some other driver type like WDM ?  It can't be used if you want true ASIO.
 

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LaszloZoltan
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/26 01:24:35 (permalink)
Just wanted to vouch for the Virtual Audio Cable solution-a simple audio track recording is just that: simple.
 
Nice find, Moonboater.
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sharke
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/26 02:03:43 (permalink)
It just occurred to me from mentioning ReWire in another thread that you could probably record a synth by hosting it in another DAW (like Reaper) then ReWire-ing the resultant audio back into Sonar. Just another possible solution to add to the list. 

James
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thebiglongy
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Re: How to record audio of an VST ? 2014/03/26 05:54:19 (permalink)
I done a similar thing last week Sharke. It's just a pity you cannot route the individual tracks in & out of live.
I have some projects in Sonar that would take half the time to sort ready for live if I was able to just reroute the inputs and outputs per channel in Sonar to Allow me to record from Sonar to ableton direct rather than rendering stems down all the time.
 

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