mettelus
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[Answered] Media Browser and Host Tempo
This one just threw me for a loop. I dragged an audio clip from a 74bpm project into the media browser. When I clicked on the clip in the browser (Preview at Host Tempo selected), it seems the browser "assumes" media without tempo info is 120bpm - i.e., the clip played back at roughly half speed. I thought a clip dragged to the browser had no tempo information, so in that case shouldn't the browser "just play it"? (This is a straight up audio clip with nothing special about it.) Importing the clip was fine (same length as export). Only issue is with playing back a clip dragged into the browser. Just noticed this in Ipswich, but could easily have existed prior.
post edited by mettelus - 2015/09/19 10:50:06
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scook
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/18 23:50:50
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mettelus
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/19 00:11:37
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The "issue" with this is that even without a tempo, SONAR is (incorrectly) assuming one. Making a user know what SONAR is doing (and how to defeat it) is not as suave as a simple algorithm that SONAR has that says "Oh, no tempo, I guess I shall just play it."
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mudgel
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/19 07:07:35
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You are correct that Sonar uses 120bpm as a default, if no alternative tempo set. I read it recently in the manual but can't remember where. You know what happens, you look for something and on the way find another piece of interesting info that's not useful at the time.
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mettelus
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/19 07:29:25
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Thanks for the confirmation. RTFM isn't my strong suit.
The other negative artifact that comes from this is having the project at such a wildly different tempo causes the browser preview to "do nothing" at times (was around 50%). I had dragged a 2 minute clip into the browser which requires a bit more work than a loop to process.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/19 08:41:06
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Preview at host tempo means "take the audio clip and play it at the project tempo". If you have a wave file that has no tempo info it is a shortcut for "take the wave file, convert it to a groove clip and play it at the project tempo". The Media browser is not arbitrarily assuming 120bpm - it is whatever is set as the project tempo. Previewing in this mode is a shortcut for dragging in the wave file, pressing CTRL-L to turn it into a groove clip and then playing it. i.e. it uses the inferred tempo from the clip and time stretches it to the project tempo. Most users expect that when preview at host tempo is enabled it applies to ALL audio clips - so time stretching by default is the current behavior for all files when in this mode. If you don't want time stretching why not turn off play at project tempo? i.e. the feature is working as designed.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2015/09/19 08:50:11
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mettelus
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/19 10:06:48
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Preview at host tempo means "take the audio clip and play it at the project tempo".
If you have a wave file that has no tempo info it is a shortcut for "take the wave file, convert it to a groove clip and play it at the project tempo".
The Media browser is not arbitrarily assuming 120bpm - it is whatever is set as the project tempo. Previewing in this mode is a shortcut for dragging in the wave file, pressing CTRL-L to turn it into a groove clip and then playing it. i.e. it uses the inferred tempo from the clip and time stretches it to the project tempo.
Most users expect that when preview at host tempo is enabled it applies to ALL audio clips - so time stretching by default is the current behavior for all files when in this mode. If you don't want time stretching why not turn off play at project tempo? i.e. the feature is working as designed.
The bold part confuses me, since this wav file was pulled from the same project (74bpm), then just checking it resulted in a playback of roughly 45bpm, meaning that when SONAR "auto groove clipped" it, it used roughly 120bpm for the clip. I realize shutting off "Preview at Host Tempo" will correct this (for that clip), but also that there is no visual indicator to denote which clips have tempo information and which do not. A new user might not initially even know why, and if someone wishes to preview looped/non-looped material in droves, they are expected to keep shifting settings only after something doesn't play correctly (the only way they will discover they are using the wrong setting)?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/19 10:18:37
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☼ Best Answerby mettelus 2015/09/19 10:49:15
The fact that the wave file was pulled from the same project doesn't mean anything. Its just a raw wave file and when analyzed for tempo info its based on the transients within that file. If you groove clip that wave file and playback you will get identical results.
I see your point about not knowing which files are actual loops or not. We have plans of enhancing the browser in the future to make it more metadata aware so we'll address this better then.
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mettelus
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Re: Media Browser and Host Tempo (is the media browser "assuming" 120bpm without tempo inf
2015/09/19 10:40:24
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Gotcha, which makes sense. The file I threw in there was a vocal track, so was not heavy enough in transients to define bpm well.
My real concern is workflow related; but I guess is ultimately 6 one way, half a dozen to the other. If the browser simply played a wav with no tempo info, it would force the user to groove clip loop manually (which might even be worse). I was thinking more of a way to make that menu setting more transparent to the user, but is not as cut-and-dry as initially hoped.
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