Audioicon
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Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
I received an Email yesterday from Yamaha regarding an OS Update for the Yamaha Montage. I currently own the Montage 8. The info is here: https://www.yamahasynth.com/montage-category/montage-os-v2-5-new-feature. I was very excited about the direct support for 3 Party DAW but noticed there was no mention of CBB or Sonar. The new Remote function supports: CUBASE, LOGIC, LIVE and PRO TOOLS. It was very disappointing because my central control is the Montage 8 and having a way to directly integrate with Sonar/CBB would have been great. So why was CBB/Sonar not included? I am begin to feel as if the industry is moving away from CBB/Sonar and this platform is not taken seriously as other platforms. CBB is great but the system is stuck in this "for project musician domain." I feel this is taking away from the platform and creating the wrong perception. Despite CBB/Sonar doing most of what is expected from a DAW. Maybe Cakewalk/CBB is like a great artist without a hit record or most recently the FX TV Series. The Americans, whose lead actors have never won an Emmy. I have to say that I was one of those people hoping Cakewalk/Sonar would become rocketed into the main stream and dominate by an acquisition but to me (IMHO) BandLab does not appear to be moving away from the "Project Studio" stigma. Again, I am just wondering if the industry has moved on and we are all that is left when it comes to Sonar/CBB.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/01 21:20:43
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The industry never fully embraced SONAR. It was frequently absent from the list of "supported" DAW's by both software and hardware developers, and missing from lists of 10 best DAW's in publications. Most products would work with SONAR, but developers seemed to never want to take the time or invest the money to test their products on SONAR, or deal with SONAR users who had problems with the product. The lack of a Mac OS version may have been a factor. It remains to be seen whether this situation will change dramatically with Cakewalk by BandLab.
The main determinant will probably be the size of the user base. These guys will likely sell more product to naïve CBB users if they are willing to "support" the DAW. So far there does not seem to be any aggressive marketing of CBB to the newbies. On the other hand, they may make the calculation that anyone who is using a free DAW is unlikely to spend a fortune on overpriced peripherals and plugins, and so support is not worth the investment. Absent a big advertising budget, there is little reason for most publications to feature articles of ratings of CBB either.
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/01 22:06:28
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Doesn't look like they support Studio One or Reaper either, so we're in good company.
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Brian Walton
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 00:16:25
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jeremy@cominginsecond.com
Doesn't look like they support Studio One or Reaper either, so we're in good company.
Or Fruity Loops (which is one of the best selling DAWs according to most reports) and Reason all "house hold names" in the DAW world.
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Sidroe
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 00:26:04
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I work for numerous pro producers, studios, and musicians who are pretty well known and I have used nothing but Sonar and now CbB for finished pro media and sales worldwide distributed. These programs were the sole DAW used for tracking, mixing, and, of all things, mastering to deliver polished, professional projects.
This is evidence enough for me to claim that Sonar or CbB is much more than a project studio tombstone.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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bitman
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 00:46:11
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☄ Helpfulby daryl1968 2018/08/03 14:27:20
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melmyers
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 00:52:43
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Direct support has never been necessary in the past for Cakewalk to work just fine with controllers and software. Also, those of us who maintain a successful career through the usage of Cakewalk don't require the approval of "the industry" for us to keep using the program to produce great work.
Mel Myers Producer/Songwriter/Voiceover Talent Sonar Platinum 64-bit/Intel Quad Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz 16GB RAM/LGA1155 Motherboard/Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit /Focusrite 18i20/Cakewalk A-800 Pro/UAD-2 Quad PCIe/& a black and white Pomeranian who thinks he's the boss
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noynekker
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 00:54:46
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By day, I work with a lot of young folks, who are also musicians. They asked me what I use for making music, and I was excited to tell them about my favourite program Cakewalk by BandLab, which is now a very powerful DAW, that is totally FREE ! (thank you BandLab). . . thing is, they already knew about BandLab, and have been using it for a while, online collaborating with their phones etc . . . they had just never heard of "Cakewalk by Bandlab" ?
My point is, due to the apparent lack of advertising, it will take some time for everyone to notice that Cakewalk is out there, if they even want to use it anyways . . . since Cakewalk itself doesn't yet have the online collaboration app built into it, which seems to be what they really want.
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SandlinJohn
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 01:01:18
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☄ Helpfulby a13xhp 2018/08/02 07:11:55
I think Meng may need to have some conversations with the industry manufacturers to get them to bring CbB into the mix for developing support for their products, especially for things like MIDI enabled consoles and controller devices (to include instruments like the Montage).
SONAR got by for a long time with a fairly simple set of supported interfaces because you could use a "standard" template such as the Makie Console / Control Surface because they were widely imitated by other interfaces. As the controllers have gotten more sophisticated and incorporate more control options that the interfaces they used to imitate just don't cover using those "standard templates" isn't enough.
As a side note: Yamaha will always have CuBase support because it's their product. They include Pro Tools because, apparently, everyone must. Ableton gets a lot of love because they do things that other DAWs don't or don't do well. And LOGIC because Apple makes it - Yamaha loves Apple, the Mac and iOS alike. None of those four are bad choices to support, but I think Reaper, Fruity Loops... sorry , FL Studio, and CbB are, as much as they are used, should be part of that support, too.
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 04:09:44
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melmyers
Direct support has never been necessary in the past for Cakewalk to work just fine with controllers and software. Also, those of us who maintain a successful career through the usage of Cakewalk don't require the approval of "the industry" for us to keep using the program to produce great work.
I believe it is this kind of thinking that has kept Cakewalk behind when it comes to industry dominance. This is like saying the "Ford Model T" works, it moves people around or the Land Lines and Air Ballons are great so just stop there. In the end this has hurt Cakewalk standing. I am just curious, have you used or do you own a Montage or Kronos? If you have, then you will understand the need for some level of integration. Again, I am a Keyboard enthusiast and I have never used a soft synth. When you have sophisticated machines, the need to have some level of integration speeds up workflow. As a Cakewalk and Sonar lover, I want to see dominance and trajectory which goes far beyond hitting a record button. Lets face it, where the hell did Studio One come from? 
post edited by Audioicon - 2018/08/02 15:41:11
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 04:12:42
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Or Fruity Loops (which is one of the best selling DAWs according to most reports) and Reason all "house hold names" in the DAW world.
Is that a Cereal? I wonder what that sounds like with Milk.
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 04:14:00
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slartabartfast
The industry never fully embraced SONAR. It was frequently absent from the list of "supported" DAW's by both software and hardware developers, and missing from lists of 10 best DAW's in publications. Most products would work with SONAR, but developers seemed to never want to take the time or invest the money to test their products on SONAR, or deal with SONAR users who had problems with the product. The lack of a Mac OS version may have been a factor. It remains to be seen whether this situation will change dramatically with Cakewalk by BandLab.
The main determinant will probably be the size of the user base. These guys will likely sell more product to naïve CBB users if they are willing to "support" the DAW. So far there does not seem to be any aggressive marketing of CBB to the newbies. On the other hand, they may make the calculation that anyone who is using a free DAW is unlikely to spend a fortune on overpriced peripherals and plugins, and so support is not worth the investment. Absent a big advertising budget, there is little reason for most publications to feature articles of ratings of CBB either.
Well stated my friend!
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Anderton
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 05:29:50
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☄ Helpfulby a13xhp 2018/08/02 07:13:35
<<CUBASE, LOGIC, LIVE and PRO TOOLS.>>
They're all cross-platform and companies that sell a lot of software. Big user base = support.
No Reaper, Studio One, Samplitude, Cakewalk, Mixcraft, MuLab, Digital Performer, BitWig, Reason, Acid, Tracktion, Ardour, Audacity.
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Keano66
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 05:39:06
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I adore Cakewalk - been a user for many years. It doesn't help the software's kudos that the product is being given away for free. The other aspect is that of the name 'cakewalk'. It just sounds childish. I still tell people that I use Sonar Platinum - it just sounds more positive and has more gravitas. I'm embarrassed to say Cakewalk. These are all superficial aspects, of course, but perception is just as valid as reality in the marketing of a product.
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a13xhp
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 07:16:06
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Anderton
<<CUBASE, LOGIC, LIVE and PRO TOOLS.>>
They're all cross-platform and companies that sell a lot of software. Big user base = support.
No Reaper, Studio One, Samplitude, Cakewalk, Mixcraft, MuLab, Digital Performer, BitWig, Reason, Acid, Tracktion, Ardour, Audacity.
That is true but REAPER also has a giant user base and the one of Studio One is growing fast. I want to see something similar for Cakewalk even if that means the same level of support from third parties, because a larger user base = more user support --> Bigger forum, youtube channels, more user created scripts, CAL, ins. etc.
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Euthymia
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 08:32:45
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Keano66
The other aspect is that of the name 'cakewalk'. It just sounds childish. I still tell people that I use Sonar Platinum - it just sounds more positive and has more gravitas. I'm embarrassed to say Cakewalk.
Of course both Fruity Loops and Acid would be entirely out of the question. Good thing that Microsoft came out with Bing. Google, Yahoo, and DuckDuckGo must have been giving you fits.
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Johnbee58
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 09:29:57
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Audioicon
As a Cakewalk and Sonar lover, I want to see dominance and trajectory which goes far beyond hitting a record button.
Lets face it, where the hell did Studio One come from?
I believe it started with Kristal Audio Engine. https://kristal-audio-engine.en.softonic.com/I started digital recording with this about 11 years ago. It was supposed to evolve further and the creators were developing a second version, but decided to sell the kernel to Prosonus and that became what we know as Studio One. It looks like the original first version is still available for free.  John B.
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers. Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7, NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer. "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening." Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
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davdud101
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 12:40:59
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It starts with the user base.. with us!
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wetdentist
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 12:54:10
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i worry that other companies won't want to work with Cakewalk to fix bugs, possibly in order to punish Cakewalk for its "pricing" structure. for example, for a few months there has been a new issue with Native Instruments hardware devices no longer working with CbB after a Windows update, and this has been brought up here on our forum & over on the Maschine forum, but i have seen nothing from either company stating that they are working together to fix the problem. who knows?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 13:00:08
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See my reply to your other post. We have great relationships with NI and other major plugin companies and work together to solve compatibility problems whenever they occur.
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bitflipper
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 14:19:03
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☄ Helpfulby bdickens 2018/08/03 12:38:55
Audioicon
I am just curious, have you used or do you own a Montage or Kronos?
If you have, then you will understand the need for some level of integration. Again, I am a Keyboard enthusiast and I have never used a soft synth.
I am also a longtime Yamaha synth guy. Roland before that. Currently using a Korg Kronos as primary controller as well as my primary stage instrument. Never had any problems integrating any of them with Cakewalk. They all worked pretty well with a 3340S, too. Audioicon
CBB is great but the system is stuck in this "for project musician domain." I feel this is taking away from the platform and creating the wrong perception.
If I were in the music software business, the "project musician domain" would be exactly where I'd want to be. It's 100,000x bigger than the professional studio domain. I wonder what word processor Tom Clancy used. Surely, if I wanted to be a successful fiction writer I'd need to know that!
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Anderton
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 15:07:42
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☄ Helpfulby wetdentist 2018/08/03 14:41:45
wetdentist
i worry that other companies won't want to work with Cakewalk to fix bugs, possibly in order to punish Cakewalk for its "pricing" structure. for example, for a few months there has been a new issue with Native Instruments hardware devices no longer working with CbB after a Windows update, and this has been brought up here on our forum & over on the Maschine forum, but i have seen nothing from either company stating that they are working together to fix the problem. who knows?
Neither NI nor Cakewalk could fix it, it was a Windows problem. Downloading the latest Windows update (which was released on July 20) solved it. Curiously, before downloading it yesterday I checked for updates, and Windows said my computer was up to date. The only way I found out about the real update I needed was from this forum - not Windows Update!
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 15:25:53
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bitflipper
I am also a longtime Yamaha synth guy. Roland before that. Currently using a Korg Kronos as primary controller as well as my primary stage instrument. Never had any problems integrating any of them with Cakewalk. They all worked pretty well with a 3340S, too.
Just to be clear, I have never had issues using any Synth with Cakewalk, what I have attempted to convey is efficiency and work flow. The issue here is not about Cakewalk working with other products but other products playing well with Cakewalk. If you read the release notes for the Montage, you will see that a lot of emphases is placed on workflow. Again this is not about weather something works or not but how easily things can be accomplish with less menus or button press. bitflipper
If I were in the music software business, the "project musician domain" would be exactly where I'd want to be. It's 100,000x bigger than the professional studio domain.
Historically, I think this business model has caused severe damage to Cakewalk but to each his own. Hopefully, one day Meng will not decide to take up cooking and give up Music, especially given this acquisition sometimes appear to be an expensive personal endeavor.
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 15:31:06
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Keano66
I adore Cakewalk - been a user for many years. It doesn't help the software's kudos that the product is being given away for free. The other aspect is that of the name 'cakewalk'. It just sounds childish. I still tell people that I use Sonar Platinum - it just sounds more positive and has more gravitas. I'm embarrassed to say Cakewalk. These are all superficial aspects, of course, but perception is just as valid as reality in the marketing of a product.
I have always thought the same, and have posted about this in the past.
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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bapu
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 15:57:15
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bitflipper
I wonder what word processor Tom Clancy used. Surely, if I wanted to be a successful fiction writer I'd need to know that!
Notepad
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 18:50:25
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bapu
bitflipper
I wonder what word processor Tom Clancy used. Surely, if I wanted to be a successful fiction writer I'd need to know that!
Notepad
Wrong! It was Egyptian Paper Reed, Papyrus.
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Meng
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 19:15:29
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Wanted to drop my thoughts in on this. I agree that official hardware and plugin support is not in the right position vs some of the other names that have been mentioned earlier in this conversation. Reaching out to many of these manufacturers and partners that we have great relationships with is something on our roadmap now that the product is up and running again and with a user base that is much larger than its ever been before. :-) Your help in spreading the word is always appreciated, as I know many of you do already (thank you!), and there will be things we do to market more aggressively in the near future. In the meantime, feel free to hound their support channels and ask them to update their websites if you see that their product works perfectly with CbB!
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 19:46:07
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meng
Wanted to drop my thoughts in on this. I agree that official hardware and plugin support is not in the right position vs some of the other names that have been mentioned earlier in this conversation.
Reaching out to many of these manufacturers and partners that we have great relationships with is something on our roadmap now that the product is up and running again and with a user base that is much larger than its ever been before. :-)
Your help in spreading the word is always appreciated, as I know many of you do already (thank you!), and there will be things we do to market more aggressively in the near future. In the meantime, feel free to hound their support channels and ask them to update their websites if you see that their product works perfectly with CbB!
Meng: I have many contacts in Colleges. Currently some offer courses in Pro-tools, for students these are not cheap. Is this something you have interest in? I think getting a foot on the industry will requiring attracting those up and coming producers and young population. I can only imagine if courses were offered on the PC platform using CBB. Just a thought. AI
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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Keano66
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 20:53:21
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There were once three cars: A Ferrari, A Porsche and a Rolls Royce. They were all good cars. People paid money to buy these cars - they were so good. It was hard to tell which was the best, as they all had merits. Some said the Ferrari was the fastest, some said the Porsche was the more stylish and others said the Rolls Royce was the more elegant. They were all good and the people valued them equally and exchanged money for them.
And then, inexplicably, the Rolls Royce makers said to a stunned market, that everyone could have a Rolls Royce for free. What? The people who didn't own the Rolls Royce proclaimed that "this must be proof that the Rolls Royce must have been a defective car to begin with, for if they are giving the car away for free, it must mean that it is inferior".
Marketing lesson No.1: Have faith in your own product because if you don't, then nobody else will.
And change the bloody name. Cakewalk? Embarrasing. Give it a name that reflects how utterly great this software really is. Make it sound special. Make people WANT to desire it.
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Audioicon
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Re: Apart from you and me: Does the industry take CBB seriously and have they moved on
2018/08/02 21:10:47
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Keano66
And change the bloody name. Cakewalk? Embarrasing. Give it a name that reflects how utterly great this software really is. Make it sound special. Make people WANT to desire it.
I'll take whatever you are having. 
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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