kevinwal
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Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
I wrote this song several years ago while I was heavily involved in the study of John Lennon's music and song writing. I was so enamored with his phrasing and use of harmony that I felt compelled to write my own Lennon song. Um, yeah. And it wasn't good enough to write a song in his style, I had to sing it like him too, at least as best as I could. Ah, the arrogance of youth. :) So I fired up Band in a Box, entered my chord progression and hit play to generate a backing track. I then did several vocal tracks and some guitar crap over the top of that. And here is the result. There's a bunch of silly stuff in here. For example, you can hear the metronome ticking away in the back ground on the vocal track. And there's a part in there where I didn't have a lyric or two and just scatted some stuff. Left it all in there. In the end in a moment of uncharacteristic maturity I shelved this song because it was too much not me, I was clearly working hard to be somebody else and I put it away until I could figure out how to really make it my own. But if you cut through all the wannabe-isms in this song, I'm beginning to believe that there is something here, and I wanted to get your opinion on it. I know this is not typically how things are done here but what the heck. So, here it is, Kevin trying hard to be a Beatle. Be nice, please, we were all young and idealistic once.  https://soundcloud.com/kevin-ibsen/apple-on-a-tree-v1
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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eph221
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/10 21:04:51
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Music is spirit, the holy ghost unless you're nietzche. That's your muse, it makes you unique. Nobody can take that away from you.
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optimus
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/11 00:35:15
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Yes, I guess I can hear shades of Lennon in there and you've tried to capture the sonic qualities of Lennon's sound.
We've all gone through that phase where we want to emulate our favorite artist or some sonic quality that we thought was the ultimate. Eventually, we all come back to ourselves and try and make the best of it.
That said, if you get rid of that jangly guitar and put a real one in there, I reckon you've got the makings of a good song, even if it is a bit Lennonish.
I rather like it, for itself.
Cheers
Wal
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/11 00:58:52
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Ha, real guitar, I like that. Thanks for the thoughts.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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markno999
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/11 20:08:10
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Kevin,
Good song, you have something here.
Regards
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mcourter
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/11 20:17:05
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whatever your intentions, the resemblance to anything Lennon is only marginal. If this isn't you, I'd like to hear more from whoever it is  . I think it's an excellent song. Maybe it deserves a little more attention, but I like it.
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/11 23:02:28
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Yeah, I know it doesn't really sound like him, it was more that I was trying awfully hard to sound like him. Perhaps it's a meaningless distinction but it was important to me at the time. Thank you for your feedback, it's nice to have someone else's opinion. I guess I'm not enough of a writer yet to fully trust my own instincts.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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Lynn
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/11 23:23:50
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Kevin, you picked a good source of inspiration, and did a good job of evoking Lennon's spirit. There's a lot of room to grow in this genre, as John would have if he would have lived. My only technical advise would be to soften the upper mids a bit because to my ears it's all a little bright. Perhaps a little tape or tube emulation on the master bus might smooth this out. Or, it could be just the mood I'm in at this moment that hears it that way ;) All in all, damn good song!
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michael japan
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 01:54:18
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Nice. Clean. I think you captured the vibe very well.
My only complaint is the drums. If you used human in a room instead of band in a box I think it would fly further. Jangly didn't bother me.
Edit - sorry, I've never used BIAB -I didn't realize you write in chords and it makes the song for you. I thought you just did the drums that way - pretty amazing.
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 03:08:39
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Yeah, Band in a Box. I never became very proficient with it and this tune was the only time I ever did anything with BIAB. I did this one as an experiment with the various styles it has in its library. It's a pretty amazing program though, but it's not magic, and if I take this song any further, I'd be starting from scratch. At the end if it all it's a lot more fun to just do it the old-fashioned way.
I wrote the song (structure, progression, melody, guitar fills & solos) and BIAB generated a bassline, pad and piano accompaniment based on a specific style. It generates a rather machine-like rendering, but a pretty sophisticated one. Still, it's like doing a painting and then using a stock photo as the background. In the end a rather unsatisfying experience and one that, as I said earlier, I abandoned.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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michael japan
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 03:14:44
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well, it's pretty amazing it can do that. And the song, guitars, and vocals are all very nice. Kudos.
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 03:35:05
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Thanks, Michael, I do appreciate your feedback!
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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FreeEarCandy
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 07:20:59
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I usually go right for the tune and then come back and read the info then comment. My immediate impression was nice vocals-they have some nice up front clarity, however the back seemed just a tad wet-just a tad (don't ask me how much a tad is). The second thing that hit me was it had a definite British vibe, and, of course, my mind went immediately to the Beatles-definitely Lennon...definitely (spoken in my best Dustin Hoffman rain man voice).
I think this is a well done tune, and I dig the channeling, but don't go too far, because a good exorcist is hard to find-awfully busy these days I suppose with all the demons about and Halloween just around the corner. Believe me I know, as I'm still trying to shake off the ghost of David Gilmour, who to my amazement is still around with us-thank God!
Well, I can't say enough about your tune. I enjoyed it, felt it, and conclude you are in fact John Lennon, which leaves me confused as to who I should say goodbye too.
:)
Dean.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 14:24:15
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Hi Kevin , BIAB or not , this song did come out very good . I would not have know that you used BIAB if you did not mention it upfront  IMHO, I think you pretty much owned what you did here with the song . The singing and production was very decent . I happen to miss hearing those Lennon type of chord progressions in popular Music . I happen to think that what you have done here is a very good starting off point to piggy backing off what has been done before in the past while giving you the opportunity to bring this type of genre to a new place while still honoring your Lennon influence . How could you accomplish that goal ? IMHO it would take giving time a little time ...step away from the tune a little bit and start replacing some of the BIAB generated auto accompaniments with instruments you have played in their place .. You can even ask a few players on the forum to collab with you if need be . I'm sure there's a few people here on the forum that are familiar with The Music of the Beatles and Lennon ... If you are on your own you can work it one track at a time , ex,...add some nice acoustic guitar strums in select places ..BTW, Session Drummer has a great Ringo Kit ... Little touches like that along the way can add up to big changes in a song ... In any event, I still think your song as it is was , is certainly a very good listen good job . all the best , Kenny
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Wookiee
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 17:05:16
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It works however you did it, are thinking of reworking it or something else?
Thank for sharing.
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 18:29:24
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FreeEarCandy
I usually go right for the tune and then come back and read the info then comment. My immediate impression was nice vocals-they have some nice up front clarity, however the back seemed just a tad wet-just a tad (don't ask me how much a tad is). The second thing that hit me was it had a definite British vibe, and, of course, my mind went immediately to the Beatles-definitely Lennon...definitely (spoken in my best Dustin Hoffman rain man voice).
I think this is a well done tune, and I dig the channeling, but don't go too far, because a good exorcist is hard to find-awfully busy these days I suppose with all the demons about and Halloween just around the corner. Believe me I know, as I'm still trying to shake off the ghost of David Gilmour, who to my amazement is still around with us-thank God!
Well, I can't say enough about your tune. I enjoyed it, felt it, and conclude you are in fact John Lennon, which leaves me confused as to who I should say goodbye too.
:)
Dean.
Ha, that's great, Dean. I'm glad you enjoyed the song. I'll try not to go too far, mostly because I don't think I'm actually able to. David Gilmour is another ghost rolls around my studio alive though he may be. Yeah, we are all standing on the shoulders of ghosts, really giant, gargantuan ghosts.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 18:33:09
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Wookiee
It works however you did it, are thinking of reworking it or something else?
Thank for sharing.
Yeah, I'm thinking about it. Some minor alterations to the melody line and maybe even finish writing the lyric.. :) But you know how it is, once a song gets out of your head and starts making waves in the air it tends to want to be what it is. Mostly though I'd want to alter some of the guitar lines, practice them well and then re-do them since what's there is rather sloppy and it was just kind of run off the top of my head. I gotta believe I can do better than that. Andy maybe even a vocal track without a metronome clacking away in the background. :) Thanks, Wookie!
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/12 18:38:53
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kennywtelejazz
Hi Kevin ,
BIAB or not , this song did come out very good .
I would not have know that you used BIAB if you did not mention it upfront
IMHO, I think you pretty much owned what you did here with the song . The singing and production was very decent .
I happen to miss hearing those Lennon type of chord progressions in popular Music .
I happen to think that what you have done here is a very good starting off point to piggy backing off what has been done before in the past while giving you the opportunity to bring this type of genre to a new place while still honoring your Lennon influence .
How could you accomplish that goal ? IMHO it would take giving time a little time ...step away from the tune a little bit and start replacing some of the BIAB generated auto accompaniments with instruments you have played in their place ..
You can even ask a few players on the forum to collab with you if need be . I'm sure there's a few people here on the forum that are familiar with The Music of the Beatles and Lennon ...
If you are on your own you can work it one track at a time ,
ex,...add some nice acoustic guitar strums in select places ..BTW, Session Drummer has a great Ringo Kit ...
Little touches like that along the way can add up to big changes in a song ...
In any event, I still think your song as it is was , is certainly a very good listen good job .
all the best ,
Kenny
Kenny, I agree, the world needs more Lennon chord progressions! Thanks for your encouragement and your ideas on taking it forward from here. It means a lot to me coming from you! I'll take your suggestions to heart and consider them seriously. As for BIAB, it did a far more polished job than I'm capable of playing, that's one thing for sure. It's slick and tight and it sounds quite professional (if a bit inhuman to my ear.) And maybe that's what bugs me about it. I'm not that solid a musician. It takes a great deal of work and practice for me to get even the simplest things done, and even then I'm sure a professional producer would reject most of my tracks. But you know, it would me as I am at this moment in time and that's somehow important to me.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/15 09:42:30
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kevinwal
Kenny, I agree, the world needs more Lennon chord progressions! Thanks for your encouragement and your ideas on taking it forward from here. It means a lot to me coming from you! I'll take your suggestions to heart and consider them seriously.
As for BIAB, it did a far more polished job than I'm capable of playing, that's one thing for sure. It's slick and tight and it sounds quite professional (if a bit inhuman to my ear.) And maybe that's what bugs me about it. I'm not that solid a musician. It takes a great deal of work and practice for me to get even the simplest things done, and even then I'm sure a professional producer would reject most of my tracks. But you know, it would me as I am at this moment in time and that's somehow important to me.
Kevin , I hope it's OK for me to make a suggestion to you on how you can get some extra mileage out of BIAB ... In my case, I have taken a fully structured tune that I was somewhat happy with and what I would do is save various versions of the same exact song at the same tempo and key using different styles ... Those different styles would give me ideas and in some cases , since i was working with the same song in a different style I would lift a part here and there along the way and drop it into my song project all the best, Kenny
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/15 21:46:45
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That's not a bad idea, Kenny, thanks!
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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bjornpdx
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/16 02:33:12
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Kevin
I think you did very well with this, even getting pretty darn close to sounding like Lennon's voice.
I posted another Lennon themed song currently on the forum and I focused more on his lyrics. Didn't think of using chord progressions that Lennon might have used. Seems like you also used similar vocal fx to bring out his sound? Nicely done.
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/17 05:39:49
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Thank you, Bjorn! I think I may have doubled the vocals to thicken which is something Lennon did reflexively with his vocal tracks. What's the name of the thread, I'd like to give it a listen.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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Bert Guy
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/20 20:01:25
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Kevin, This is a remarkably good sim of a John Lennon song from top to bottom. The accompaniment is basic, very much like it is on his solo albums, esp Plastic Ono.. The linear melody is dead on (Paul's tunes tended to have a lot movement with even octave jumps). The lyric has the biting quality JL's had. The topper is the vocal- it sounds like you could make some extra dough doing a John Lennon tribute act. Good stuff Bert
post edited by Bert Guy - 2017/08/21 03:51:20
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/22 03:17:19
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Thanks Bert! Plastic Ono Band is one of my favorite periods in his career. I find relatively easy to be just about anybody but myself. :)
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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michaelhanson
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/22 13:09:35
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I'm a HUGE Lennon fan. I think you have captured the essence, style and vocal mannerisms of John pretty well. Nice work, bro. The instrumentation and arrangement is very Lennon-ish.
Ok, one little nit.....it ends awfully quickly. I can see John having more of a hook type of ending.
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daryl1968
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/22 17:34:20
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Very nice Kevin - the hook is still going round my head
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/24 02:13:22
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michaelhanson
I'm a HUGE Lennon fan. I think you have captured the essence, style and vocal mannerisms of John pretty well. Nice work, bro. The instrumentation and arrangement is very Lennon-ish.
Ok, one little nit.....it ends awfully quickly. I can see John having more of a hook type of ending.
Thanks for spending some time with it, Michael, it's good to hear that I got done what I was trying to do. ;) Now I have to go study Lennon's song endings, lol.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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emeraldsoul
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/24 14:05:34
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I'd say thumbs up to the Lennonness, and I liked the guitar tone and playing. The overall mix balance could be fiddled with, it is on the bright trebly side. Do you have an "aural exciters" on this? You might excite those aurals a little less if so.
FWIW I liked and appreciated Lennon but musically and compositionally I'm more of a McCartney guy, so take that into account! :)
cheers,
-Tom
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kevinwal
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/24 14:37:30
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I tend toward trebliness owing to some upper range hearing loss, it's a tendency that I have to be vigilant for. I have to have my wife review stuff to have any hope that things will sound good for normal people. McCartney rocks, I love his solo work too. Saw him in '76 on his first Wings American tour and he was just incredible.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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stevec
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Re: Apple on a Tree - Channeling John Lennon with BIAB
2017/08/29 18:59:09
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BIAB/mix aside, I do hear the Lennon influence in this one, particularly at the beginning and during the last section. Overall, for me it has more of a solo Lennon vibe vs. his work in the Beatles. Oh, and the guitar licks were nice as well, smooth and well placed.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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