gswitz
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Aural exciter
Are there good alternatives to the aphex aural exciter and big bottom? Seems kinda pricy and also surprisingly little competition. Am I wrong?
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Leadfoot
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/07 20:46:28
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The BBE Sonic Maximizer does a good job.
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/07 21:45:40
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This is a silly question, but it seems like the type of thing Craig Anderton could describe how to roll your own Aural Exciter. What do you think the mean by frequency dependent phase? Could a combination of Buses, EQs and tube plug ins do a fair job of faking it? So the two buses would be phase inverted with differing eq settings and tube plugs. Those two busses go to another bus. Since they are exactly phase flipped, everything except the different tube harmonics should cancel (maybe?). Now, apply EQ to reduce the harmonics except in the ranges you want. So depending on your eq settings in the first 2 busses, the harmonics will be phase flipped by frequency. As they move higher and lower, they will flip phase. This is kinda a lot of work to get a sound, but it is free to try it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphex_Systems Based on this article there is some sort of delay as well side chain compression (?) to reduce the volume when there is more bass and boost it when there is less.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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sharke
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/07 21:53:08
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I bought the Aphex exciter at a ridiculous discount some time ago. It works wonders when you have say a sample of some old music that needs brightening, but for the life of me I cannot work out how to use it as an effect send without the result sounding a little "phasey." I must be doing something wrong.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/07 22:03:09
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StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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sharke
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/07 22:24:10
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JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 07:46:59
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Thanks, Sharke. I guess I'll wait for a Waves sale. Do they use a dongle? Or maybe I'll just add it to my long term hardware wish list.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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jbraner
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 07:51:18
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sharke I bought the Aphex exciter at a ridiculous discount some time ago. It works wonders when you have say a sample of some old music that needs brightening, but for the life of me I cannot work out how to use it as an effect send without the result sounding a little "phasey." I must be doing something wrong.
Hey sharke - I don't think it's supposed to be used on a send. An exciter works on the sound itself = it's not like an "effect" that you "add" to the original sound...
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 08:01:06
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Ozone? I have used it to brighten and add punch and bottom to old tapes.....and it does a superb job on my current recording projects.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 08:01:23
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cclarry
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 08:02:27
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 08:34:32
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Thanks Mike. I'll wait. In the mean time, I'll play with specific frequency ranges with tube effect then phase canceled to see what I can do myself. You never know where listening might lead.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 08:42:12
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Thanks cclary. That's a good deal for the waves. It is still steep for me right now. I'm also a bit afraid of using my limited resources on things have never had in my arsenal. ..things none of my friends have to loan me. I am apprehensive.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 08:45:20
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And the fact that sharke didn't say he can't live without it gives me pause. If course bit and others have given it a thumbs up which is why I've become suddenly curious... That and the fact that I have trouble getting bass to sound good on mp3 played through ear buds .
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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sharke
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 09:28:31
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gswitz And the fact that sharke didn't say he can't live without it gives me pause. If course bit and others have given it a thumbs up which is why I've become suddenly curious... That and the fact that I have trouble getting bass to sound good on mp3 played through ear buds .
No dongles at Waves any more! Although you still have to deal with that stupid Waves Shell nonsense. The reason why it's not an "essential" plug for me is that most of the stuff I play with involves either synths or commercial samples, and if you can't dial in more "zing" from the synth itself then you're doing something wrong. However, I will occasionally mess with samples from old records, especially old orchestral recordings that sound a little muddy and lifeless, and the aural exciter really polishes them up somewhat. It's something to be used in moderation, of course. You can really screw a mix up with it to the point where it's literally painful to listen to - but I suppose the same goes with any plug. As far as I am aware, the main use for it is in helping with recordings that could use a little more top end and which EQ isn't going to fix (because there's no top end to boost). Although I'm sure it can be used for effect too. The Waves press release said of the unit it's modeled from: Highly regarded for its ability to increase and enhance presence, brightness and detail on vocal tracks and masters alike, the Aural Exciter was even credited on popular albums by the likes of Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt and James Taylor, as a sort of hardware "session player."
I'm pretty sure there must be A/B demos out there.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 09:30:37
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jbraner
sharke I bought the Aphex exciter at a ridiculous discount some time ago. It works wonders when you have say a sample of some old music that needs brightening, but for the life of me I cannot work out how to use it as an effect send without the result sounding a little "phasey." I must be doing something wrong.
Hey sharke - I don't think it's supposed to be used on a send. An exciter works on the sound itself = it's not like an "effect" that you "add" to the original sound...
I believe the original Aphex unit was often used as a send, and the Waves plug has two settings - one to be used on tracks, and another to be used as an aux send. I guess as a send it's like everything else, you're applying the effect to the full sound, and mixing a little in to the dry sound.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 09:39:21
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Thanks sharke. I mostly record people, including bass and vocals. I think it could become an important tool for me and help me get better sounding mixes on the playback environments lots of people use.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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sharke
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 10:04:12
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I just went back and tried it again as a send effect and it's working great. I used it on a sample of an crackly old breakbeat from the 70's and it really made it sparkle without the phasey sound I mentioned before. Maybe there was something up with the project I tried it on originally.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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J4R10
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 10:34:22
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gswitz That and the fact that I have trouble getting bass to sound good on mp3 played through ear buds .
I also had some troubles with bass guitar sound, but then I demoed Waves CLA Bass and it sounded so great that I had to purchase it immediately. Now my bass problem days are finally gone! :) I think it suits all kind of music, not only rock. It even works great with bass guitar samples. I have a headless Cort Flying V bass guitar from early 80's and with CLA Bass and ProChannel EQ I can get a really nice bass sound. BTW: Waves Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter is also very nice little plugin.
Win 7 (x64), Core i5 3000 MHz, 8GB RAM, Asus P8H67-V, RME 9632 Hammerfall, Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro, Soundcraft Compact 4, Roland A-500S Sonar X1d Producer Expanded (x64), Reason 6.5, Superior Drummer 2.0, Amplitube 3, T-RackS Grand, iZotope Ozone 5, ValhallaDSP and Waves audio plugins
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 10:37:38
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Thanks j4r10.I'll check that out.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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sharke
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 10:53:30
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Also look at Maxxbass if your problem is with hearing the bass on buds. It works wonders for making bass more audible on small speakers, and I've also found that it helps bring the bass out in the mix in general too. Like anything, use in moderation.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 10:53:34
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Also look at Maxxbass if your problem is with hearing the bass on buds. It works wonders for making bass more audible on small speakers, and I've also found that it helps bring the bass out in the mix in general too. Like anything, use in moderation.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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J4R10
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 11:08:07
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sharke Also look at Maxxbass if your problem is with hearing the bass on buds. It works wonders for making bass more audible on small speakers, and I've also found that it helps bring the bass out in the mix in general too. Like anything, use in moderation.
There is sub bass function included in CLA Bass and I can tell you: it's really effective. :) Maybe it's MaxxBass, don't know... but take a look: edit: Ok, cannot post that link... for some reason... but google "Waves CLA Signature Collection signal chain diagrams" and you know what I mean. :)
post edited by J4R10 - 2013/08/08 14:51:00
Win 7 (x64), Core i5 3000 MHz, 8GB RAM, Asus P8H67-V, RME 9632 Hammerfall, Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro, Soundcraft Compact 4, Roland A-500S Sonar X1d Producer Expanded (x64), Reason 6.5, Superior Drummer 2.0, Amplitube 3, T-RackS Grand, iZotope Ozone 5, ValhallaDSP and Waves audio plugins
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Cactus Music
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 11:21:27
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/08 22:40:41
We had one on the master output insert, daisy chained through a 32 band EQ unit on our PA for lord knows how long, don't even know when we stopped using it. First had the original ( 1984?) then the one with "Big Bottom". I was told back then that it achieved it's magic "high end Brightening" by adding harmonics somewhat like distortion does. It did make the PA shine and was noticeable ( dull) if you by passed it.
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Thatsastrat
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 11:29:34
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/08 22:38:40
The Antress Modern Exciter works pretty good and it's free.
Sonar Platimum, Win10 32bit, Quad Q6600,4G DDR2 Ram, BCF2000, Lexicon Lambda interface,Tascam US 1800, WD 500 GB HD, M-Audio AV40 Monitors, Line 6 DI Gold, Guitar Rig 5 Pro, hand full of guitars, Kawia PH50 Keyboard,Digitech GNX3 http://www.soundclick.com/thatsastrat/%3C/a%3E http://www.myspace.com/thatsastrat/music
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 23:21:50
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And wouldn't you know there is a Cakewalk HF Exciter built in as well. Thatsastrat, thanks for the Antress Modern Plugs. They're interesting and I'm having fun checking them all out. Who knew??
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/08 23:53:49
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With all due respect all, what does the OP/thread have to do with SONAR X1 or X2? I believe this should have been posted in the Gear forum. Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/09 06:07:16
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/09 06:55:44
There may be another approach which could interest anyone after some high frequency emphasis. It is free as well. In the MAY issue of Sound on Sound I have just read a rather interesting article under the Cubase Workshops section. Unfortunately it is a little too soon to be able to read the full article on the SOS site so right now the only way is to read the mag if you actually have it. If you wait long enough the full article will be available free for download. It uses the concept of creating a setup within your DAW that emulates what the Dolby A encoder used to do in the old days for tape machines. The original article is based around Cubase but it applies to any DAW of course and can be adapted easily. Apparently they used to feed certain things through the encoding side of a Dolby A noise reduction system in order to create emphasis on the treble part of the spectrum. This approach is nicer than EQ and exciters as well. It creates the HF emphasis using a set complex of filters and compressors. It can be used on mixes and on individual things that may need some HF emphasis. This approach is a single ended system. With Dolby A the tape also played back into the Dolby A decoder to bring things back to normal but this process is only using it one way eg encoding only. I am not a fan of either the Aural Exciter or the BBE as well. They are essentially bad things especially when applied over a whole mix. I think on individual elements of a mix they could work but it all gets back to if you are doing your job properly it could be argued that they are simply not necessary. In the case of the PA and using an exciter over the FOH sound, well if you set up and tune FOH properly to start with, you can get a beautiful top end happening that certainly does not need an exciter to put a whole lot of highs back in. It is unnecessary these days too because the PA's can produce the bottom and top end without any of that stuff going on. Beware running entire mixes through such things. They will simply lower the integrity of your mix and that is not desirable. One should be able to get all the high end you need at the time of your mix. But the Dolby A thing actually looks interesting and it caught my eye and after reading it I am interested to try it myself. It is all a bit tricky to setup and adjust but once all done it could be a nice way to go in terms of brightening either mixes or individual sounds. I see it mainly on individual things like kicks, snares hats etc and maybe voice too. It is supposed to sound much better than either EQ or any form of exciter.
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gswitz
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/09 06:55:14
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Thanks for the tip, Jeff! I'll make a trip to my local Guitar Center at lunch. I know they carry SOS. I'll see if they have a May issue they could sell me. And I also appreciate your comments about the Aphex Aural Exciter and BBE. People were making them sound mission critical and it's clear that they aren't (I've made tons of mixes I was very proud of without either). Still, Exciters are major enough and used by enough big folks that Cake thought to include one. And according to Aphex, there is Delay involved as well as what sounds like side chain compression where the effect is louder when the source is softer. So you are getting harmonics off the original tone in time and frequency where volume is in inverse relation to the source so that one goes down while the other goes up and vice versa. That's why I was thinking tubes for creation of harmonics. Isn't one of the side effects of tubes musical harmonics off the source? Still, as I tried to think about it, it seemed like a pretty hard thing to replicate In the Box. I was imagining lots of busses with inverted polarity and blah blah blah. I would probably create a blurry mess and smear it over the high end and sit back proud like a kid who smeared mud on the wall.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/08/09 10:54:25
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Aural exciter
2013/08/09 11:03:00
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"It is unnecessary these days too because the PA's can produce the bottom and top end without any of that stuff going on." That's why we probably stopped using it. Newer systems are much better, but back then it was terrible with 3 way crossovers and such. These days I don't even use EQ on my PA. Just a little bit on each channel.
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