Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum

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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/18 07:23:10 (permalink)
JTOL but you'd think the industry would establish a standard protocol for using all the stuff they want ton$ for. Makes no sense to me that they don't. No $$ No worries!
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lfm
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/18 07:49:12 (permalink)
I read one review comment from a guy at thomann.de - he had two units, and it was sensitive which order he powered them on or they were swapped configurationwise - which is bad design in my book.
 
Nothing todo with Sonar though.
 
Also saw comments that a dot update on drivers were necessary to latest Cubase etc. So seems very sensitive as a system - I dropped idea to get Artist Mix. Probably create more problems than it solves.
 
In my view Softube Console 1 is more on the right track, just enough buttons to immediately position on a track - and a single motorized fader+strip controls to control that track.
 
Why are control surfaces into this massive amount of expensive faders - give us 100 buttons to directly position on a track, and a single fader - way to go. You quickly get the habit to know you keep drums there, bass there, vocals there etc.
 
Controllers like Presonus Faderport with previous/next quickly gets lost in track folders and you have no idea where you are. Even newer Faderport 8 does not have buttons to directly position on one of many tracks.
 
Maybe it's just me wanting that position thingy?
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azslow3
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/18 11:49:29 (permalink)
lfm
Controllers like Presonus Faderport with previous/next quickly gets lost in track folders and you have no idea where you are. Even newer Faderport 8 does not have buttons to directly position on one of many tracks.
 
Maybe it's just me wanting that position thingy?

Faderport follows focus. So you just have to move focus to required strip. Something like Akai APC Mini can help, 8x8=64 buttons (really more) which can focus strips directly. With color indication for Solo/Mute and may be some other functions as a bonus

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Anderton
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/18 13:51:21 (permalink)
lfm
In my view Softube Console 1 is more on the right track, just enough buttons to immediately position on a track - and a single motorized fader+strip controls to control that track.
 
Why are control surfaces into this massive amount of expensive faders - give us 100 buttons to directly position on a track, and a single fader - way to go. You quickly get the habit to know you keep drums there, bass there, vocals there etc.

 
They're very different workflows. Console 1 is more like a hands-on channel strip, Artist Series Mix is more like a hands-on mixer. They both have their place, depending on the application, the project, and the user.
 
As is probably clear from my posts the Artist Series Mix can be squirrely, I think in large part because Ethernet is involved and power-on order matters. However it's now working consistently for me as long as the Ethernet router and controller are turned on before turning on the computer.
 
I'm not recommending/endorsing it...but those who have them should know that it can work just fine with SONAR, and needn't be a doorstop. I got into this because the V-Studio is too big for my workspace and I use touch a lot for most of its "switched" functions, but still want faders. The Artist Series allows having multiple units so you're not limited to 8 faders. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#34
lfm
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/18 17:02:08 (permalink)
azslow3
lfm
Controllers like Presonus Faderport with previous/next quickly gets lost in track folders and you have no idea where you are. Even newer Faderport 8 does not have buttons to directly position on one of many tracks.
 
Maybe it's just me wanting that position thingy?

Faderport follows focus. So you just have to move focus to required strip. Something like Akai APC Mini can help, 8x8=64 buttons (really more) which can focus strips directly. With color indication for Solo/Mute and may be some other functions as a bonus


Thanks.
I had a faderport, and also ran StudioOne at the time, beside other daws too. And especially S1 which don't have all  outs from VST in track view, but only in mixer etc it was a mess to feel where you were. And folder in track view but now visible in mixer - Faderport added nothing but confusion.
I did look at maybe using the 8x8 Novation Launchpad mini - but it seemed so targeted towards daws that support that protocol and clip launching etc.
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lfm
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/18 17:14:20 (permalink)
Anderton
 
They're very different workflows. Console 1 is more like a hands-on channel strip, Artist Series Mix is more like a hands-on mixer. They both have their place, depending on the application, the project, and the user.
 
 

Thanks.
I think that is what I want - that is what I do when mixing.
Accessing a track quickly to possibly fiddle with automation, or some plugin.
 
If simultaneous access to faders - I want them all - like 24-32 as minimum.
But giving you 8 - what good does that do?
Ok, when having final stems only, but otherwise not so useful.
 
Console 1 idea is very cost efficient, I think - and brings a boost compared to just computer interface.
Especially if they have expanded on the idea to also send track select to daw - was not from start when I talked to them.
But not sure how it works with these popup of strip - if main app loose focus and you get problem with audio crackles in doing that etc. Or if that launch completely within the plugins of theirs loaded in daw.
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azslow3
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/18 17:46:13 (permalink)
lfm
 And folder in track view but now visible in mixer - Faderport added nothing but confusion.

The visibility with folders is in fact a problem... And no surface can be better then other there.
 
For Launchpad. There is no "protocol", from (any!) DAW perspective it is just a "MIDI keyboard" with feedback as color LEDs under pads. Console 1 (as the hardware) is the same, with less buttons but with many encoders. Avid is the same, but with moto-faders. But EUCON is quite different from MIDI (and OSC) since it pretend to be "smart", either make it such is a good idea the time will show... F.e. Yamaha 01V is also "smart", that is the reason for rather complicated way to make it work as a DAW controller compare to a configuration for absolutely dumb devices with the same physical controls.

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lfm
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/19 06:13:19 (permalink)
azslow3
 
For Launchpad. There is no "protocol", from (any!) DAW perspective it is just a "MIDI keyboard" with feedback as color LEDs under pads. 

One would like just the active track button to light up - so some kind of protocol is involved I think, and don't think it is as customizable as some other hardware defining midi controller, if toggle button or not etc.
I think it's Bitwig and Live that support it as I recall.
 
For just over $100 it would be a very efficient solution to track positioning at least.
 
I was hoping in Roland days for Cakewalk they would come up with something that solved that. They all seem to go for multifader and just 8 of them - who cares for 8, I wonder?
Even when paging up/down exchanging the tracks represented, and I think Artist Mix also to one track slide for you - it feels not like paying up that cash for it.
 
Mackie Universal is expandable in a nice way, but want to emulate a full analog console kind of.
 
In this way I think Softube Console 1 is so brilliant idea. Two pages of 20 buttons is a good start to select track, but if 5 pages or unique buttons even better. Looking for expansion, I think they have some targeting video editing, but not sure if I mix up with expansions for Mackie or Avid.
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azslow3
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/19 09:14:19 (permalink)
lfm
azslow3
For Launchpad. There is no "protocol", from (any!) DAW perspective it is just a "MIDI keyboard" with feedback as color LEDs under pads. 

One would like just the active track button to light up - so some kind of protocol is involved I think, and don't think it is as customizable as some other hardware defining midi controller, if toggle button or not etc.
I think it's Bitwig and Live that support it as I recall.
 
For just over $100 it would be a very efficient solution to track positioning at least.

The "protocol" is not so complicated, if pad sends "C4" note, sending "C4" note back to the controller defines the color for this pad, based on the value (0 - dark, 1 - green, 3 - red, etc. , http://community.akaipro.com/akai_professional/topics/midi-information-for-apc-mini ). Such protocol is not hard to support. I can create such preset for AZ Controller within 15 minutes and than "Sonar will support it" as well.
 
As I understand, APC is not customizable. But Mackie Universal also has just 3 fixed preset. That is in fact a good thing for DAW controllers since there can be no users with "it does not work FOR ME" (because they decide to play with reconfiguration without understanding what they are doing).
 
On the other hand, AVID is much more complicated... EUCON plug-in is not open source, EUCON protocol is not published in open (or I have not found it).

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88KeysBW
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/20 07:09:08 (permalink)
Very happy to see responses to this thread!  Many thanks!
 
@Anderton, really appreciate you looking into this further.  I'm a fan of your tips, by the way!  
I have the Artist Mix connected directly to my tower so I'm using a wireless connection to get to the internet so no router in the combination.  I believe that I have the latest Eucon software (v.3.4.1) and I also have the plug-in from Sonar (SONAR_EUCON_Control_Surface_Installer).  
So here are my questions:
1. Is there a special order that these components need to be installed to work correctly?  I've tried Eucon then Sonar plug-in and then connecting Artist Mix.  I've also tried Eucon then connecting Artist Mix and then the Sonar plug-in.  No love so far.  Any guidance?
2. If I have the components installed correctly by sequence, should I have the Artist Mix console on before I start Sonar?  Does it matter?
 
I am able to see the Eucon icon in my task bar and it does light up so I believe the computer recognizes the hardware.  Within Sonar, once the plug-in is installed, I'm able to choose the Eucon surface so I know that the plug-in installation work but the components still are talking (Artist Mix console isn't showing any signs of connecting with Sonar).
 
Any additional feedback would be appreciated!
 
Also appreciate the ideas from others on alternate surfaces.  I paid a bundle for this Artist Mix console and have really enjoyed it with Sonar X3.  Still hoping that I can get it working with Sonar Platinum.  Thanks for the support!

Geff Garnhart
Dell 8910 | Windows 10 Home | Sonar Platinum | Tascam US-1800
 
#40
Anderton
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/20 10:17:08 (permalink)
88KeysBW
1. Is there a special order that these components need to be installed to work correctly?  I've tried Eucon then Sonar plug-in and then connecting Artist Mix.  I've also tried Eucon then connecting Artist Mix and then the Sonar plug-in.  No love so far.  Any guidance?
2. If I have the components installed correctly by sequence, should I have the Artist Mix console on before I start Sonar?  Does it matter?



I'm still doing some testing but will have your answers tomorrow for the Tip of the Week. I have it working 100% reliably, at this point I'm just trying to figure out the simplest option. A lot of the advice on the web is very specific about "you must do this first, you must do that second" but what I'm finding is there are really only a couple things that really matter.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/22 00:17:49 (permalink)
Okay, the tip is posted in Friday's Tip of the Week. Fader slammers, rejoice!

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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88KeysBW
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/22 23:56:09 (permalink)
Craig,
Thank you for the post.  Unfortunately, I'm still dealing with the same result.  After performing the installations as you described and ensuring the Sonar had the proper control interface plug-in installed there still seems to be no "consummation of the marriage" between Artist Mix and Sonar.  (I did get a chuckle from your reference though.)  As I walk through the steps as you describe them, I am receiving an extra prompt for a Network Interface selection that you are not receiving.  I've detailed my experience below and would appreciate any feedback that you have.  
(I have plenty of screen shots but do not seem to have the ability to include them in this thread.  The "Attach Picture" icon doesn't give me the option to upload any images and pasting them in simply results in an empty frame.  I tried using Chrome and Microsoft Edge.  Am I missing something? )  
Anyway, I'll do my best to communicate without the aid of the screen shots.
Missing "consummation":
1. Brought up a project in Sonar Platinum
2. Turned on Artist Mix console- note: the AVID logos did not go away even after waiting over 5 minutes
3. Opened the EuControl application
4. Received a pop-up asking me to choose my network interface.  I had 2 choices: "Qualcomm Atheros Ar8171/8175 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet" and "Intel(R) Dual Band Wireless-AC 3165"
5. I selected Qualcomm Atheros Ar8171/8175 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
6. I located the EuControl the icon in the task bar
7. I right-clicked it and selected Restart EUCON applications
8. I was again presented with the pop-up to choose my network interface - same 2 choices.  I chose: Qualcomm Atheros Ar8171/8175 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
9. The Artist Matrix console then showed green rectangles at the top of each channel (instead of the AVID logo) but did not show any signs of making the connection to Sonar.
10. I checked the screens within the EuControl Settings.  On the Assign tab, the Application value (top left corner of the screen) has the value of: on.  Not Sonar or any other application.  Is that similar to your experience?
11. Since there was no connection made between the AM console and Sonar, I tried again and chose the other available Network Interface in the initial pop-up from the EuControl application: Intel(R) Dual Bank Wireless-AC 3165.
12. Unfortunately, same result: the Artist Mix console shows blank green rectangles at the top of every fader - no connection to Sonar.  
I checked both of the Network Interfaces in Device Manager and they both appear to be working properly.
My AM console is hard-wired into my Dell's Tower through the only Ethernet Port.  I connect to the Internet via wireless connection.  
Any thoughts?
Thanks again for the post.  Hoping you and/or others can help solve this puzzle!
Geff

Geff Garnhart
Dell 8910 | Windows 10 Home | Sonar Platinum | Tascam US-1800
 
#43
88KeysBW
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/23 12:47:40 (permalink)
Craig and All,
I just checked on euphonix.avid.com and they posted a new version of their EuControl SW (v3.5 for Mac and Windows).  
I uninstalled v3.4.1 and then followed the instructions you posted as part of Tip #116 and ladies and gentlemen we have consummation!  :)  Avid Artist Mix console is now talking with Sonar Platinum on Windows 10.  Wahoo!
 
Important note: the network interface prompt that I wrote about in my last post does not show up now when the EuControl application is run.  (This is a good thing!)
            Here is the text from the euphonix site re: v3.5:
  • Important!
    The EUCON performance improvements included in S6 v3.5 makes v3.5 and later versions incompatible with all previous versions of EUCON and EuControl. As a result, version 3.5 and future versions must not be run on the same network (subnet) as any previous EUCON Surface software. All devices on the network must be running the same version of EUCON/EuControl. Please uninstall or remove from the same network all previous S6, System 5 Hybrid, S5-MC/MCPro, Pro Tools | Dock, Pro Tools | S3, and Artist Series software. Be sure to update any other EUCON software to v3.5 or higher before using EuControl v3.5 or higher.
            Please note the following: Make sure control surface firmware is up to date after installing EuControl 3.5
 
Since the new EuControl SW is the only variable that was changed between my last post and the successful installation today, I'm assuming that this software upgrade did the trick.
 
Again, many thanks for the support and for featuring your guidance of how to get Artist Mix to work with Sonar Platinum as your latest tip of the week!
 
Sincerely,
Geff

Geff Garnhart
Dell 8910 | Windows 10 Home | Sonar Platinum | Tascam US-1800
 
#44
Anderton
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/10/23 19:11:05 (permalink)
Glad you got it working, and I'm also glad to hear there's a new software.
 
I assume one explanation why what worked for me didn't work for you is I have only one option for ethernet. I specified it and after rebooting, was never asked again.
 
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/12/03 04:44:57 (permalink)
Hey guys, I'm going to join in on this topic as i just purchased an Artist Mix and an Artist Control, and i'm wondering why 88KeysBW is running into an extra "step" identifying the Network interface.  Are you using multiple onboard Ethernet ports on your computer?  What I did was buy a cheap gigabit switch JUST to run to my 2nd onboard ethernet port on my computer, while my first is used to connect to my router and thus my local area network and internet.

I'm just now perusing through the forums on setting up and getting these puppies working.  I wasn't too concerned whether they worked with Sonar Platinum until I started reading the thread because I remember coming across Sonar support for Eucon protocol...  Though I'm glad I waited on the purchase until now!  I do use other DAW's as well so it wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me to not get them working with Sonar - I just prefer Sonar first and foremost.

I'll report back my specific steps if I manage to get them up and running before anyone else provides a solid walkthrough.
#46
Anderton
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/12/03 10:48:50 (permalink)
Check out the Friday's Tip of the Week for Week #116. I think it all comes down to when you start the EuCon services.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: Avid Artist Series and Sonar Platinum 2016/12/03 22:12:50 (permalink)
Anderton
Check out the Friday's Tip of the Week for Week #116. I think it all comes down to when you start the EuCon services.


Thanks!  I actually didn't have to jump through all those hoops (aside from needing the Eucon support for Sonar plugin).  Once it was installed I was able to leave the mix and control both on and when I opened a project in Sonar the faders jumped to position immediately and I was able to start playing around with the surfaces.

This is as of the latest 3.5 software.  now I can get to mapping and a few other hardware configurations!
#48
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