chulaivet1966
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Band In A Box users?
Good morning luminaries.... Well...a friend of mine bought me BIAB (v2012.5 close out with Amazon for 79$) thinking it would be an interesting tool to work with. Although I say this with levity, I feel like I'm cheating. :) For the record, I've always recorded my material the old fashioned way by actually playing the instruments. :) I've never used a loop or other tools like BIAB for original material. I figured this tool would be an interesting change and might stimulate (what's left of) my musical creativity. So...I have worked with it for the last couple of days and put together one of my current songs using BIAB. I'm not finished with it yet and it doesn't sound too bad as there are boatload of options within BIAB. Just curious if others have made any jump to BIAB for similar reasons? Experiences? A creative day to all....carry on.
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Beagle
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 14:40:32
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The "cheating" aspect has been argued here and other subforums (software, Producer, etc) ad nauseum.
My personal take is that it's no different than hiring a studio musician and I have several songs which utilize BIAB.
BIAB has the ability to create an entire song, structure, melody, everything - if you want it to. If you do that, then I think you're "cheating" - you're not doing anything other than generating a song from algorithms.
but if you us BIAB to supplement the instruments you can't play yourself (or can't play well) and the song structure is yours and the melody is yours and you play SOMETHING on the recording (even if it's vocals) then BIAB is a great tool for that.
I use it on every song I create, EVEN if I don't end up using any of the instruments from the result. it's a great tool to help with creation of the song. I have a few songs that have NO BIAB instruments on the recording, but I have a BIAB file of that song because I used BIAB to help me create the structure and "feel" of the song.
just my 2 cents.
others will disagree. cest le' vie.
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chulaivet1966
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 14:49:47
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Beagle The "cheating" aspect has been argued here and other subforums (software, Producer, etc) ad nauseum.
Oh yes...I've been around long enough to know that....hence....my comment 'I say this with levity'.
I agree with your take on it also.
I've enjoyed working with it on my current song and have become quite aware of the depth of the program.
I hope I have neuron surplus so I can grasp some of this depth while I'm still above the dirt. :)
Thanks for commenting....I'm on a vertical learning curve with BIAB.
Carry on....
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spacey
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 14:50:09
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Beagle
My personal take is that it's no different than hiring a studio musician and I have several songs which utilize BIAB.
just my 2 cents.
others will disagree. cest le' vie.
I sure don't mind being the one to disagree with that. I can't imagine anybody that has ever played for any length of time with live musicians not being able to know the differences. The day a machine can replace what a live guitarist can bring to the game....game over for me...I'll take up evaluating whiskey. :) ( not to mention all the other instruments....and beverages :)
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chulaivet1966
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:03:01
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Hey spacey.... " I can't imagine anybody that has ever played for any length of time with live musicians not being able to know the differences. " I would agree with that comment also. I was endorsing Beagles' take that: "but if you us BIAB to supplement the instruments you can't play yourself (or can't play well) and the song structure is yours and the melody is yours and you play SOMETHING on the recording (even if it's vocals) then BIAB is a great tool for that." I would not use it just to quickly generate songs with all the default offerings. Using a tool of this nature is all new to me. Thanks spacey for chiming in.....carry on.
post edited by Quazelar - 2013/01/11 15:11:12
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Beagle
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:16:21
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spacey
Beagle
My personal take is that it's no different than hiring a studio musician and I have several songs which utilize BIAB.
just my 2 cents.
others will disagree. cest le' vie.
I sure don't mind being the one to disagree with that.
I can't imagine anybody that has ever played for any length of time with live musicians
not being able to know the differences.
The day a machine can replace what a live guitarist can bring to the game....game over for me...I'll
take up evaluating whiskey. :) ( not to mention all the other instruments....and beverages :)
Actually, I didn't state anything about the quality of the track from BIAB vs a studio musican's track. I was merely speaking from the perspective of whether it's "cheating" to use BIAB tracks in a recording or not. I completely agree with you that you will get a better quality sound from a hired studio musican, but that was not what I was saying.
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spacey
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:27:37
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When it comes to one enjoying themself making music it's whatever floats their boat.
Why would one care what others think anyway?
Why would you? I mean it's not like you're asking because you might buy it.
Turn the thing on and take it for a ride. It'll fit or it won't.
But can you really, really imagine such a crazy thing.....
Not real....just imagine...
Ring, ring...Hello? Hi Mike, it's Bill ( a great guitarist we've heard of)...Hi Bill, huh, what's up?
Man I'm in the hood and thought I'd lay some tracks down with ya........long silence......
huh Bill......yes Mike....man I have BIAB, I'm gonna have to pass....click.
Have fun with it...check it out...Years ago I bought it and haven't seen it since....but that's me.
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jbow
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:29:05
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I am a Box of Bandaids user... if that helps. Does it have Garage Band in a Box? Then it might make it worth it to buy an ipad. I'll have to confer with the monkey though... J
post edited by jbow - 2013/01/11 15:30:36
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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spacey
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:31:15
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Beagle
spacey
Beagle
My personal take is that it's no different than hiring a studio musician and I have several songs which utilize BIAB.
just my 2 cents.
others will disagree. cest le' vie.
I sure don't mind being the one to disagree with that.
I can't imagine anybody that has ever played for any length of time with live musicians
not being able to know the differences.
The day a machine can replace what a live guitarist can bring to the game....game over for me...I'll
take up evaluating whiskey. :) ( not to mention all the other instruments....and beverages :)
Actually, I didn't state anything about the quality of the track from BIAB vs a studio musican's track. I was merely speaking from the perspective of whether it's "cheating" to use BIAB tracks in a recording or not.
I completely agree with you that you will get a better quality sound from a hired studio musican, but that was not what I was saying.
I took it exactly as written. I wasn't talking about sound quality either. If you meant something else.....nevermind.
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craigb
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:37:47
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I accidentally bought the union version of BIAB so I've never heard anything from it since the "musicians" went on strike immediately and don't do anything except threaten anyone trying to use my DAW...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Beagle
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:39:41
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craigb
I accidentally bought the union version of BIAB so I've never heard anything from it since the "musicians" went on strike immediately and don't do anything except threaten anyone trying to use my DAW...
You have a DAW? 
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craigb
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:41:06
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Yep. Dual server box proudly running SONAR Producer 4 still.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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chulaivet1966
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:51:09
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Craigb....
You're catching up to me....I'm still on 5.0PE....from the age of the pteradactyls. :)
Carry on...
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Beagle
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 15:55:47
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spacey
Beagle
spacey
Beagle
My personal take is that it's no different than hiring a studio musician and I have several songs which utilize BIAB.
just my 2 cents.
others will disagree. cest le' vie.
I sure don't mind being the one to disagree with that.
I can't imagine anybody that has ever played for any length of time with live musicians
not being able to know the differences.
The day a machine can replace what a live guitarist can bring to the game....game over for me...I'll
take up evaluating whiskey. :) ( not to mention all the other instruments....and beverages :)
Actually, I didn't state anything about the quality of the track from BIAB vs a studio musican's track. I was merely speaking from the perspective of whether it's "cheating" to use BIAB tracks in a recording or not.
I completely agree with you that you will get a better quality sound from a hired studio musican, but that was not what I was saying.
I took it exactly as written. I wasn't talking about sound quality either.
If you meant something else.....nevermind.
I probably should drop it. I just feel like I'm not communicating correctly. I didn't say anything about "sound" quality either. you had said that a "real musician" would be able to tell the difference. I agree with that because that's not what I was saying. I said there's not a difference between me hiring a studio musician and me using a program to make backing tracks from the perspective of "cheating." I did not say that a "real musician" would not be able to tell the difference in a BIAB track vs. a Studio Musician track. As with anything the difference between a real studio musician and a BIAB track is going to be the difference in what you pay for each. the quality of the studio musician's track is, of course, going to be much better than the quality of the BIAB track because the studio musician is going to have real definition to his playing where the BIAB track is just pasted together loops of a musician playing. now, I'll also say that I don't think you are going to be able to get away with submitting a song with BIAB tracks on it for a producer or publishing agent to promote. they won't accept it that way. they'll want to hire the real musicians and "do it right" for the real recording to be promoted. can you get away with it for a demo? maybe. depends on a lot of things. but it won't stay that way for a true release from a producer or record label. it will be done with real studio musicians before they'll release it. but if it's just for demo or for your own etification of releasing a song you've done...Micheal said that well also - "who cares what others' think"? just have fun with it.
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jamesg1213
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 16:11:49
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I've heard BIAB a lot over the past couple of years, from a handful of people on the Songs forum.
At first I thought it sounded pretty good. As time went by, I began to be able to spot it as soon as the track started. It's got that slightly weird 'inhuman' sound that can't be disguised.
A week or so ago I listened to someone's song, and not only did I spot that it was BIAB, I recognized the actual (fiddle) licks it was playing.
This, to me, is the drawback. A studio musician will at least put some some personality into his part, whereas BIAB, it seems, will very quickly start to repeat itself.
Personally, I'm now loathe to listen to anything I know has been generated that way..I don't see any value in it, and have no meaningful comments to say about a song which has it.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 16:41:45
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cheating schmeeting.... if it does what you want..... use it.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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bapu
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 18:31:07
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Every imaginable opinion on BIAB has now been expressed in this fred.
Well Done Gents!!!
Case closed.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 18:44:28
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Not yer bapsi.
I use em every time I cuts myself.
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chulaivet1966
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 18:48:55
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bapu
Case closed.
I had no intention of making a case of anything. <I'm too stupid to insert an appropriate smileycon here> Tis just another tool in the musical toolbox. For my pea brain it's possible thie BIAB may even more involved than my archaic 5.0PE....go figure. Happy Friday luminaries....carry on.
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bapu
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 18:51:44
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It was a jibe Quaz.
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chulaivet1966
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 18:57:57
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I dig it bapu....all is well.....except for my pea brain having no surplus of neurons to learn another program.
This BIAB muther is deep like the Aleution Trench.
Carry on....
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spacey
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 20:40:07
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Reece....ya knows I luv ya... Studio musicians and BIAB in the same sentence is ... it just doesn't work LOL. I thought it was funny as hell and not laughing at you. Should we have been in the same room...it would have been a fun time. Here is my take on it- and I've already said I just don't care what others make their music with. For those that don't know...I don't record live with others anymore. Everything I record is either a collab or alone. I can pick on a guitar or bass and not get beat up to bad. When I opened it up I immediately knew I pissed off that money. The reasons are I didn't like nor want what it offered. Well, what does it offer? It could be a learning tool. I don't need a learning tool. I learn all by myself. It could kinda make sounds of other instruments. I can do that and much better via midi guitar or step recording with a midi keyboard. (which turned out to dangerous and a waste of time...keyboard that is) If one compares the results between those means....no contest . It can generate chord progressions and songs. That is the last thing in the world I need or want. I'll write my own. It will supply backup and/or inspiration to play. I can make better backup by other means and I don't need inspiration. I've loved making music for 50 years. Personally, and I mean no offense to any person...I could never use it. It will never generate, backup, or inspire me to do a thing with making music. I'm glad it's there for folks that do enjoy it.
post edited by spacey - 2013/01/11 20:41:46
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craigb
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 20:47:47
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spacey
Reece....ya knows I luv ya...
Studio musicians and BIAB in the same sentence is ... it just doesn't work LOL.
I thought it was funny as hell and not laughing at you. Should we have been in the same
room...it would have been a fun time.
Here is my take on it- and I've already said I just don't care what others make their music with.
For those that don't know...I don't record live with others anymore. Everything I record is either a collab or alone.
I can pick on a guitar or bass and not get beat up to bad.
When I opened it up I immediately knew I pissed off that money.
The reasons are I didn't like nor want what it offered.
Well, what does it offer?
It could be a learning tool. I don't need a learning tool. I learn all by myself.
It could kinda make sounds of other instruments. I can do that and much better via midi guitar or step recording with a midi keyboard. (which turned out to dangerous and a waste of time...keyboard that is)
If one compares the results between those means....no contest .
It can generate chord progressions and songs. That is the last thing in the world I need or want. I'll write my own.
It will supply backup and/or inspiration to play. I can make better backup by other means and I don't need inspiration. I've loved making
music for 50 years.
Personally, and I mean no offense to any person...I could never use it. It will never generate, backup, or inspire me to do a thing with
making music. I'm glad it's there for folks that do enjoy it.
So, basically, you're saying you like to think outside the Band In A Box, ya?
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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backwoods
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 20:56:56
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Well put spacey.
BIAB sucks the almighty Kumara and maybe in 50 years time it may do a decent approximation of real musicians but I haven't got the time to wait around for it to catch up. Korg KARMA sucks as well.
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Beagle
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 21:44:40
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spacey
Reece....ya knows I luv ya...
Studio musicians and BIAB in the same sentence is ... it just doesn't work LOL.
I thought it was funny as hell and not laughing at you. Should we have been in the same
room...it would have been a fun time.
Here is my take on it- and I've already said I just don't care what others make their music with.
For those that don't know...I don't record live with others anymore. Everything I record is either a collab or alone.
I can pick on a guitar or bass and not get beat up to bad.
When I opened it up I immediately knew I pissed off that money.
The reasons are I didn't like nor want what it offered.
Well, what does it offer?
It could be a learning tool. I don't need a learning tool. I learn all by myself.
It could kinda make sounds of other instruments. I can do that and much better via midi guitar or step recording with a midi keyboard. (which turned out to dangerous and a waste of time...keyboard that is)
If one compares the results between those means....no contest .
It can generate chord progressions and songs. That is the last thing in the world I need or want. I'll write my own.
It will supply backup and/or inspiration to play. I can make better backup by other means and I don't need inspiration. I've loved making
music for 50 years.
Personally, and I mean no offense to any person...I could never use it. It will never generate, backup, or inspire me to do a thing with
making music. I'm glad it's there for folks that do enjoy it.
Hey my friend, and I hope you know I don't take offence at any of this either! I understand where you're coming from. Bub had a similar stance in a recent thread about loops, IIRC. it's all good and yes, we'd have a good laugh together in the same room! You are MILES above me in talent and skill. you have more experience at "being a musician" in one of your fingers than I have in my whole body and I envy you that! but that's OK. we're all different - as long as we can still get along and have a good time enjoying each other then it's ALL GOOD!
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craigb
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 21:47:51
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I fear that those little guys in the box are far better than I currently am... *Sigh*
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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sharke
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 23:05:08
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Crucial question: does anyone know of any hit single that has been at least partially created with BIAB elements?
To be honest I've been thinking about getting it purely for jam track purposes. I'm kinda sick of all the jam tracks on YouTube and I'd quite like to get back into jazz soloing.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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chulaivet1966
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/11 23:30:35
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sharke....
I've hardly scratched the surface with this BIAB tool.
Along with stimulating the musical imagination I plan on using it for jamming with.
Plus, one is able to create one's own jam tracks and bring 'em into Sonar/X2.
Depending on one's goals it's very inexpensive given all that one can do with it.
Carry on....
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savageopera
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/12 00:22:24
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Musical Sci-Fi movie plot: "neglected BIAB mutates and generates its' own singer/songwriter internally, thereby becoming entirely self sustaining, leading to the starvation and extinction of all human musical talent"..................starring Arnie,Sly, and Dakota Fanning................
post edited by savageopera - 2013/01/12 00:24:15
Sonar Artist, HP Laptop, AMD A8700 , 1T+250g, M-Audio Fast Track Ultra ,Roland 88 Hammer action, Roland AX-1, M-audio 88es, Arturia minilabII......When I was young I wanted to become a mad scientist. I achieved everything except the "scientist" part.... http://www.soundclick.com/savageopera
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Band In A Box users?
2013/01/12 09:50:17
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sharke
Crucial question: does anyone know of any hit single that has been at least partially created with BIAB elements?
To be honest I've been thinking about getting it purely for jam track purposes. I'm kinda sick of all the jam tracks on YouTube and I'd quite like to get back into jazz soloing.
1. nope.... but... the real question to be asking is how many demo's sent in have BB tracks in them? Or Session Drummer, or other synths.....? (at least the bass and drums rhythm section) An artist will ALWAYS record the song with their band members playing. 2. excellent use for BB.... it does jazz pretty good in many styles. Let it generate a song in the jazz style... the possibilities are wide in range. Mute the melody and solo instrument and have fun. As a song writing tool, whether it is used to create the follow up tracks or not.... BB is an indespensible and versatile songwriting tool. The songs I write, come from my head and heart. BB simply is used to make them tangible. It's so easy to try things out to see what works and what doesn't... but in any case...it's me doing the creating, not BB.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2013/01/12 09:53:24
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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